|
|
12-24-2016, 11:27 AM
|
#1
|
Guru
City: Kitimat, North Coast BC
Vessel Name: Badger
Vessel Model: 30' Sundowner Tug
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 5,946
|
Oxe diesel outboards
There's a new 200hp diesel outboard getting close to market.
This one uses an existing car engine, mounted horizontally and using belts to transfer power to the propeller, with components located such that it's "easily" serviced in place on the transom. Can also be configured for high speed or moving heavy loads.
Pretty good writeup: Engineering an Innovative Diesel Outboard Engine | Engineering360
Press release from Opel about their car engine as base for Oxe outboard: Opel Sets Sail: New Outboard Engine for High-performance Boats
Oxe website: OXE - DIESEL OUTBOARD
__________________
"The most interesting path between two points is not a straight line" MurrayM
|
|
|
12-24-2016, 12:01 PM
|
#2
|
Guru
City: Kitimat, North Coast BC
Vessel Name: Badger
Vessel Model: 30' Sundowner Tug
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 5,946
|
Oh, can also use up to a 130 amp alternator and cooling water for heat.
__________________
"The most interesting path between two points is not a straight line" MurrayM
|
|
|
12-24-2016, 12:27 PM
|
#3
|
Valued Technical Contributor
City: Litchfield, Ct
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 6,786
|
The US miltary's single fuel requirement is sure driving some interesting engine developments. Although I am skeptical of converting a 200 hp, 2 liter gasoline engine to diesel, I do appreciate the innovative belt drive that the OXE outboard uses.
David
|
|
|
12-24-2016, 12:32 PM
|
#4
|
Guru
City: Fort Myers, FL... Summers in the Great Lakes
Vessel Name: Slow Hand
Vessel Model: Cherubini Independence 45
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 12,834
|
I like it! Now if they would just make it in the 100 HP version. Like the idea of a 35' trawler with this engine and all that usable weight / space where the engine was.
Ted
__________________
Blog: mvslowhand.com
I'm tired of fast moves, I've got a slow groove, on my mind.....
I want to spend some time, Not come and go in a heated rush.....
"Slow Hand" by The Pointer Sisters
|
|
|
12-24-2016, 12:39 PM
|
#5
|
Guru
City: Kitimat, North Coast BC
Vessel Name: Badger
Vessel Model: 30' Sundowner Tug
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 5,946
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by O C Diver
I like it! Now if they would just make it in the 100 HP version. Like the idea of a 35' trawler with this engine and all that usable weight / space where the engine was.
Ted
|
Exactly where I was going with this...imagine the increased tankage potential with increased range/time between marina visits to refuel!
__________________
"The most interesting path between two points is not a straight line" MurrayM
|
|
|
12-24-2016, 12:59 PM
|
#6
|
Guru
City: Jacksonville Beach, FL
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 1,252
|
Welcome news indeed. The belt technology alone is interesting, and might have something to offer for inboard propulsion applications where engine placement is tricky - say, in a multihull.
__________________
"Less judgment than wit is more sail than ballast. Yet it must be confessed that wit give an edge to sense, and recommends it extremely." ~ William Penn
|
|
|
12-24-2016, 01:16 PM
|
#7
|
Guru
City: Kitimat, North Coast BC
Vessel Name: Badger
Vessel Model: 30' Sundowner Tug
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 5,946
|
Western North America distributor; Products « Cascade Engine Center
Worldwide distributors; CONTACT - OXE
__________________
"The most interesting path between two points is not a straight line" MurrayM
|
|
|
12-24-2016, 01:31 PM
|
#8
|
Guru
City: Fort Myers, FL... Summers in the Great Lakes
Vessel Name: Slow Hand
Vessel Model: Cherubini Independence 45
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 12,834
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by MurrayM
|
Now if I could just get them to swap the Kabota V3800-CT-TE4B Turbocharged 74 HP engine with the one in the OXE, we'd be all set.
Ted
__________________
Blog: mvslowhand.com
I'm tired of fast moves, I've got a slow groove, on my mind.....
I want to spend some time, Not come and go in a heated rush.....
"Slow Hand" by The Pointer Sisters
|
|
|
12-24-2016, 01:55 PM
|
#9
|
Valued Technical Contributor
City: Litchfield, Ct
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 6,786
|
The trend to small, low displacement, high hp per liter, highly turbocharged gasoline engines in order to meet mileage standards has definitely opened up some possibilities for diesel conversion. Even though auto engines don't use their hp for long, making 100 hp per liter does require some tougher main bearing saddles, head studs and other design improvements that make it easier to convert them to diesel.
Some of us remember Oldsmobile's disastrous gasoline V8 conversion to diesel. It was a 6 liter block and was making only 125 hp in its diesel form which is puny by today's standards but the block couldn't take it. Think about it- a normally aspirated 5.9 liter Cummins makes 135 hp, but it weighs about double what the Olds engine weighed. That Cummins block has been pushed to 480 hp and can cruise long term at close to 300 hp today.
But if you start with a 2 liter block that can make 200 hp in gasoline form without too many warranty claims, then maybe if you keep it down to 50 hp per liter in diesel form, it might last.
Those military conversions probably will end up higher than 50 hp per liter. The applications for these engines will probably be RIB patrol craft and if the outboard craps out, well bolt a new one on- its just the taxpayers money, right. Hopefully they won't have to pass the Navy's torture test for diesels.
But if the military buys a bunch of these, then commercial applications will follow and if they keep the hp in check, then a diesel outboard might finally work out for applications like the TT 35.
David
|
|
|
12-24-2016, 02:16 PM
|
#10
|
Technical Guru
City: Wilmington, NC
Vessel Name: Louisa
Vessel Model: Custom Built 38
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 6,194
|
I'm intrigued by the belt drive lower unit. Now that is different.
|
|
|
12-24-2016, 02:31 PM
|
#11
|
Guru
City: Kitimat, North Coast BC
Vessel Name: Badger
Vessel Model: 30' Sundowner Tug
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 5,946
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ski in NC
I'm intrigued by the belt drive lower unit. Now that is different.
|
Indeed.
Quote:
The primary belt drive allows the user to change the gear ratio of the unit to fit various demands and driving styles. Depending on the needs of the operator, high acceleration or high speed. Its designed as a separate unit that is easy changeable. By switching orientation of the primary belt housing, the user can change the gear ratio between 1.73:1 and 2.17:1.
|
TRANSMISSION - OXE
__________________
"The most interesting path between two points is not a straight line" MurrayM
|
|
|
12-24-2016, 03:12 PM
|
#12
|
Guru
City: Cape May, NJ
Vessel Name: Irish Lady
Vessel Model: Monk 36
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 4,966
|
BRP makes an ETEC for everyone but the US that uses kerosene, jet fuel, #1 diesel and can be switched over to gasoline.
__________________
Archie
Irish Lady
1984 Monk 36 Hull #46
Currently in Cape May, NJ
|
|
|
12-24-2016, 03:34 PM
|
#13
|
Guru
City: Concrete Washington State
Vessel Name: Willy
Vessel Model: Willard Nomad 30'
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 18,743
|
I find the mechanics of it interesting in a stimulating way. New mechanical things are great.
But I'm thinking this far aft engine system dosn't marry well on trawlers. There's enough trawlers out of trim as it is. Most all of them bow down. Trawlers in big water should have their propellers as deep in the water as practical. OB and IO units fail in that way and on big waves could find their prop out of the water just when it's needed for some propwash over the too small rudder.
If I had a choice of an Oxe powered NT32 or what's offered now I definitely go for the conventional powered boat.
__________________
Eric
North Western Washington State USA
|
|
|
12-24-2016, 04:04 PM
|
#14
|
Guru
City: Satsuma FL
Vessel Name: No Mo Trawla
Vessel Model: Hurricane SS188
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 2,300
|
Anyone willing to wager what the life of the belts are? Why not chains?
|
|
|
12-24-2016, 04:57 PM
|
#15
|
Guru
City: Fort Myers, FL... Summers in the Great Lakes
Vessel Name: Slow Hand
Vessel Model: Cherubini Independence 45
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 12,834
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Donsan
Anyone willing to wager what the life of the belts are? Why not chains?
|
Lots of car engines have cogged timing belts. If it's not going to have an oil bath, think I'd rather have a belt instead of a chain. From a wear standpoint, cheaper to periodically change a belt instead of a chain and 2 gears.
Ted
__________________
Blog: mvslowhand.com
I'm tired of fast moves, I've got a slow groove, on my mind.....
I want to spend some time, Not come and go in a heated rush.....
"Slow Hand" by The Pointer Sisters
|
|
|
12-24-2016, 05:13 PM
|
#16
|
Valued Technical Contributor
City: Litchfield, Ct
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 6,786
|
Ahh!! I just realized that this is an existing GM Opel automotive diesel engine which has probably been converted to sea water inter cooling and therefore the hp is boosted to 200 out of a 2 liter engine. They also say it will go 2,000 hours before overhauling. Wouldn't even make 100,000 miles in a car.
Another "chainsaw engine" to quote Tony Athens.
I do like the belt drive, though. Maybe it can be detuned to last a bit longer.
David
|
|
|
12-24-2016, 06:04 PM
|
#17
|
Guru
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 1,288
|
I saw the unit at the Marine Expo in Seattle and spoke at length with the rep who I knew because he was the tech sent by JD to test my engines when installed. If they get it right this engine can be a game changer. Yes I and a lot of others would like to see other versions with more and less HP. The fishing industry may be the target but I can think of many other applications including long range coastal cruisers some might qualify as Rec. trawlers.
|
|
|
12-24-2016, 06:54 PM
|
#18
|
Guru
City: Fort Lauderdale. Florida, USA
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 21,449
|
They've had this quite a while. The issue for most of our uses remains weight.
|
|
|
12-24-2016, 07:19 PM
|
#19
|
Guru
City: St Augustine, FL
Vessel Name: RunningTide
Vessel Model: 37 Louisiane catamaran
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 930
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by O C Diver
Lots of car engines have cogged timing belts. If it's not going to have an oil bath, think I'd rather have a belt instead of a chain. From a wear standpoint, cheaper to periodically change a belt instead of a chain and 2 gears.
Ted
|
For clarification the chain drive would be a little different from what you normally think of. Its term a 'silent chain'. I've been looking at the subject for a good number of years. Here are a few quotes from other forums:
Quote:
Originally Posted by brian eiland
At one time I was doing quite a bit of study of this subject in anticipation of producing some units...maybe over in Asia. But the boat market is less than well at the moment, so I'm not persuing that subject at the moment.
I started out favoring the idea of toothed belts over chain. But over a period of time I came to the realization that the silent chain approach made much more sense, and would be easier to impliment. This is particularly true when you start talking of HP greater than 20-30.
If you start looking thru the tables of pulley diameters (minimum dia) recommended by the belt manufacturers for specified powers transmitted you will find the diameters of the pulleys getting quite big which might require thicker struts, and all of this interfering with the prop...etc...etc
|
Regrettable the links here have been destroyed when the Yachtforums decided to change their software programs that ran their site. There was lots of good info and photos I had posted there....
Quote:
Originally Posted by brian eiland
I've long be a proponent of horizontal prop shafts over inclined ones. My original thoughts back in the 70's was to utilize what in those days were referred to as 'gilmer belts'. Fast forward to modern days and make use of those industrial power belts by Gates, kevlar and now carbon belts. I'd love to be involved with some of this development if there were a client willing to support the work.
Power Propulsion
There have been some fits and starts on such projects, but not much carry thru. PYI products developed a chain drive that was quite interesting, but then have stopped production of their two different power units. In recent talks with them I have discovered they are willing to build the larger size unit on a custom basis. Here are a couple of reference postings I've made on this subject:
http://www.yachtforums.com/forums/7567-post9.html
http://www.yachtforums.com/forums/15453-post14.html
...and a chain-drive duo-prop arrangement...not near as complicated as the current duo-prop drives
Tennant Hull V ChainDrive
|
|
|
|
12-24-2016, 07:28 PM
|
#20
|
Guru
City: St Augustine, FL
Vessel Name: RunningTide
Vessel Model: 37 Louisiane catamaran
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 930
|
Another older posting of mine. You can see I was looking seriously at this technology back in 2004 and a little earlier. I still think its a viable technology.
Quote:
Originally Posted by brian eiland
There was no development monies available.
I had started out thinking Kevlar belts, but became convinced that the silent chain was a better idea. Here is a posting (2004) where I was going thru that transition:
YachtForums.Com - View Single Post - New Drive System from Volvo Penta
PYI had come out with a chain drive leg, but only marketed it for a few years. I'll see if I have a few other photos of it. I did collect a lot of info on these silent chains and identified a prime manufacturer I wished to work with on development of such an outdrive leg,...if some development monies should become available.
One sample installation I saved on my older computer
Paradise 60 :: Paradise Yachts
One older spec sheet on the smaller sized unit:
|
|
|
|
|
|
Thread Tools |
Search this Thread |
|
|
Display Modes |
Linear Mode
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
|
» Trawler Discussions |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|