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Old 11-20-2012, 07:30 PM   #41
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bfloyd

Willards have quite a following from some pretty bright guys. I'd never confuse them with a sail boat but then again I don't have 29 hp tractor experiences to draw from.
The willard that i saw was a very nice boat extremely well built but it was shaped like a sailboat and inside room was skimpy for a 30 foot boat. I think they are likely to be the most fuel eficient trawlers out there when compared to other vessels of there size.
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Old 11-20-2012, 07:49 PM   #42
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bfloyd--- Ironically, for the kind of boating you profess to wanting to do--- offshore cruising and fishing--- a Willard is probably one of the best choices you can make. Far, far better than the GB you keep talking about. If my wife and I were interested in offshore cruising-- by which I mean in the open ocean even if it's just a few miles off the beach--- a Willard would be on our short list of boats to use for that. A GB wouldn't even make it to the long list.
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Old 11-20-2012, 07:55 PM   #43
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Floyd wrote;
"willards are sailboat hulls turned into trawlers in my opinion after looking at one. They have all the disadvantages of a sailboat and none of the advantages in my opinion."

World's apart. And obviously not your world. But in your defense all FD hulls are somewhat similar and FD power boats look a whole lot different than other power boats below the WL. FD power boats tend to have a very long keel while sail boats have short keels. Sailboats are very "pointy" at both ends while power boats are full and wide astern and full in the bow. The Willard 30, 40 and 36 are 100% power boat. Some have sails but ther'e not even motorsailers.
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Old 11-20-2012, 08:01 PM   #44
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sorry if i ofended you
but the fact is many of the engines in our boats are tractor engines
Naw...you didn't offend me...

Who here has tractor engines in their boat??? I know a few tractors that may have boat engines in them....maybe...
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Old 11-20-2012, 08:05 PM   #45
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bfloyd--- Ironically, for the kind of boating you profess to wanting to do--- offshore cruising and fishing--- a Willard is probably one of the best choices you can make. Far, far better than the GB you keep talking about. If my wife and I were interested in offshore cruising-- by which I mean in the open ocean even if it's just a few miles off the beach--- a Willard would be on our short list of boats to use for that. A GB wouldn't even make it to the long list.
I am aware of this thank you very much. There are much better designs than GB and Defevers for offshore use for sure but i just like the looks and feel of them. Besides, there are not many forty foot willards out there to look at. Maybe the 40 would have the confiduration i like but i think it will also have the rounded stern which is what makes it better for offshore. right? I'll have to see if i cant find one to look at. I did see ne for sale but way way outra my price range.
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Old 11-20-2012, 08:06 PM   #46
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Floyd wrote;
"willards are sailboat hulls turned into trawlers in my opinion after looking at one. They have all the disadvantages of a sailboat and none of the advantages in my opinion."

World's apart. And obviously not your world. But in your defense all FD hulls are somewhat similar and FD power boats look a whole lot different than other power boats below the WL. FD power boats tend to have a very long keel while sail boats have short keels. Sailboats are very "pointy" at both ends while power boats are full and wide astern and full in the bow. The Willard 30, 40 and 36 are 100% power boat. Some have sails but ther'e not even motorsailers.
You are kidding right??? There are plenty of full keel sailboats. There are plenty of Full displacement powerboats with no keel. And if you truly look around...there are sailboats with hull shapes very similar to Willards.

Here's pics of a Willard sailboat and powerboat...very similar to me..
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Old 11-20-2012, 08:24 PM   #47
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i like the looks of the one on the lift must be a forty?
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Old 11-20-2012, 08:38 PM   #48
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Or a 36.
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Old 11-20-2012, 08:44 PM   #49
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Naw...you didn't offend me...

Who here has tractor engines in their boat???
Assuming your question is not tongue-in-cheek, we do. The FL120's base engine is the Ford of England Dorset diesel. It was originally designed to be a truck engine in larger trucks like dump trucks and semi-tractors, proved to be a total failure in that application but saved itself from discontinuation by proving to be an ideal engine for relatively low load, constant rpm service for things like pumps, compressors, generators, and cranes. From there it was a short step to the agricultural world where it was used in Ford tractors and, in particular, combines. In fact in England this engine became known by many as the "Ford combine engine."

This was in the late 50s and early 60s. The same attributes that made it ideal for industrial and agricultural service made it ideal for low-powered marine service and it caught the interest of a number of engine marinizers like Lehman.
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Old 11-20-2012, 08:59 PM   #50
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maybe i should have stated that many marine diesel engines systems had their roots in farm eqiupment. Their are lots of JD powered boats. Havent seen any combine engines in boats <IH> ?
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Old 11-20-2012, 09:22 PM   #51
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maybe i should have stated that many marine diesel engines systems had their roots in farm eqiupment. Their are lots of JD powered boats. Havent seen any combine engines in boats <IH> ?
The FL120 is a combine engine. In fact, when buying a spare coolant pump for this engine you have to make sure you don't get the "combine" pump as opposed to the "regular" pump. The combine pump has an interference issue with the belt pulley on an FL120. You can correct this through the careful use of a Dremel tool to relieve the interference, but it's easier to get the right pump to begin with.
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Old 11-20-2012, 10:18 PM   #52
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psneeld,
Those pics are both of 30' Willards. The top pic is a Horizon and the bottom is an 8 Ton. The latter is actually a sailboat and has a much bigger keel to enable her to sail to windward. But the sailing Willards aren't really sailboats. They are powerboats modified to sail to some degree giving the manufacturer the ability to expand their line. Your observational skills are too lacking to be telling me to look around .....

And by "full keel" I mean forefoot to full aft.

Tractor engine? My Mitsubishi is found in many tractors.
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Old 11-21-2012, 07:01 AM   #53
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Yeah...my observational skill may be lacking but to say there is a substantial difference in those hulls is rediculous...sure there are a few differences due to sail/power....but both hulls are designed to slip through the water with a given buoyancy requirement and minimal resistance with THAT designer believing that given type shape is what a boat should be....as opposed to other type designs.

Your often incorrect guesses on vessel speeds (and efficiency but that's another post) both on Marin's and Mark's pics leads me to believe your skills on understanding boat design aren't any better than mine or anyone else's and for you to post this:

"World's apart. And obviously not your world. But in your defense all FD hulls are somewhat similar and FD power boats look a whole lot different than other power boats below the WL. FD power boats tend to have a very long keel while sail boats have short keels."

Well let's just say I couldn't let it go....
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Old 11-21-2012, 10:42 AM   #54
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Very nice looking sailboat and it does look somewhat like my Willard. But now-days sailboats have a very low prismatic coefficient compared to powerboats. If you look down at them from above they have a pronounced diamond shape. Even more so as viewed from below. I'm assuming we can be birds or fish. Skinny ends and a fat midsection. Very very different that the typical trawler w extremely full and wide ends and quite different than FD powerboats like a Krogen or a Coot.

Now that you've got me think'in about it you may have extreme observatory powers psneeld. There is the very existence of the 8 ton Willard sailboat and look at my "railings" on Willy. They are the wire type mostly found on sailboats. The 8 Ton has'nt got a raised pilothouse like most motorsailers. It's got the flush low cabin of most sailboats. I think you may have uncovered something. I'll bet the man that designed the W30 and W40 Willard spent most of his NA career designing sailboats. The Willard 36 is by W Garden and I much prefer it. And the 36 has no resemblance to sailboats either. I'm going to be talking about this on the Willard Group site.

But the tone of your last post makes me think of taking you off my best buddy list. Maybe that's just your nature. And NO you just don't let things go do you? I can though and I'll show you.
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Old 11-21-2012, 11:32 AM   #55
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[QUOTE=manyboats;114291]Very nice looking sailboat and it does look somewhat like my Willard. But now-days sailboats have a very low prismatic coefficient compared to powerboats. If you look down at them from above they have a pronounced diamond shape. QUOTE]

Since the late 90's and early 2000's a lot of the bigger sailboats have big fat rears. The diamond shape you refer to is the old IOR rule beater where the rear was way narrower than the mid ship beam and it was swept upward as well. The handicap number was determined by the water line when the boat was standing upright. So by sweeping the transom up the water line number was low. My C&C was a 38' boat but her water line was 29'. When she was under sail her water line increased to about 36'. Making her very fast and yet she carried a High Handicap rating.

But the builders found a way to get more out of fat transoms when the sugar scoop came about and for the most part the Hunters and Catalina's have pretty big rears. Big rears give more livability in the aft stateroom.
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Old 11-21-2012, 12:00 PM   #56
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JD,
Totally right I think but the WL view from underneath may still be quite (I think I like that word) diamond shaped. But when the boat is sailing (especially hard) the WLL is maximized and that obviously has great importance.

sugar scoop .... must refer to some aspect of the hull shape aft???
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Old 11-21-2012, 03:03 PM   #57
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sugar scoop .... must refer to some aspect of the hull shape aft???
The original hulls that got the steps off of the transom or in fact through the transom were referred to as a sugar scoop. Like the one mom had in the big bin of flour or sugar. They added water line under sail.
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Old 11-21-2012, 03:14 PM   #58
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The original hulls that got the steps off of the transom or in fact through the transom were referred to as a sugar scoop. Like the one mom had in the big bin of flour or sugar. They added water line under sail.
sugar scoop.....good name for em
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Old 11-22-2012, 12:12 AM   #59
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.....
I have an old tractor rated at 29hp at 2000 that i run at 16-1800. At that rpm u cant stop the thing it will just keep ploughing ahead even if ahead is a blackberry forest 12 feet tall. Its an old ford with a zillion hours on it and it just keeps going..... The old lehmans remind me of that engine except they are 6 cylinders and this one is three.
I thought it was a Lehman until you got to the 3 cyl. bit. Might still be one, cut in half.
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Old 11-22-2012, 12:01 PM   #60
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I thought it was a Lehman until you got to the 3 cyl. bit. Might still be one, cut in half.
was the lehman a british design? I think this 3cylinder was originally a british design as well so u could be right. All i know is its a darn good engine. I changed the oil one day then was working in the pasture glanced down and the oil light was on. I then drove back to the barn a 1/4 mile away where my tools and oil were before stopping to ascertain the problem. When i got there i discovered no drain plug. When i had filled it my neighbor dropped by to jaw a bit and i forgot to tighten it. Well i willled er up with oil installed a new plug and went back to work expecting the engine to start clattering and die any minute. She had been driven at least 1/4 mile at full throttle with zero oil in the crankcase. That was three years ago and the old girl is still working just as hard as ever. Amazing engine system
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