Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 07-23-2013, 12:02 PM   #21
Veteran Member
 
remwines's Avatar
 
City: Jamestown, Ca.
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Down East Yankee
Vessel Model: Defever 40 by Down East
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 96
Thanks Adelaide. I believe the boat has a 1000 series filter. We are travelling to San Pedro tomorrow to pay for the boat and make a list of everything needed for repairs, updates and outfitting. So I will know then what filter is installed.

I found the Racor RK11-1969 Vacuum Gauge Kit for the 900/1000 series on eBay for less than $100 with shipping. Looks like a sound investment to me. Should I stay with the 10 micron filters or go with a finer media.
__________________
Advertisement

remwines is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2013, 12:17 PM   #22
Senior Member
 
Adelaide's Avatar
 
City: La Conner, WA
Country: USA
Vessel Model: 1983 Tung Hwa Clipper
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 365
Quote:
Originally Posted by remwines View Post
Thanks Adelaide. I believe the boat has a 1000 series filter. We are travelling to San Pedro tomorrow to pay for the boat and make a list of everything needed for repairs, updates and outfitting. So I will know then what filter is installed.

I found the Racor RK11-1969 Vacuum Gauge Kit for the 900/1000 series on eBay for less than $100 with shipping. Looks like a sound investment to me. Should I stay with the 10 micron filters or go with a finer media.
You should go with 2 micron filters. You want all contaminants caught by your Racor. You'll go through more filters, but your engine mounted filters (10 micron) won't need to be replaced very often. Stock up on the Racors.... Make sure you fill the Racor up with diesel all the way to the very top after every filter change. You don't want to add air into your lines. Since you don't have 2 racor filters, you will want to time the change outs, preferably when you are dock side. Good luck and enjoy the boat!!
__________________

Adelaide is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2013, 01:33 PM   #23
Veteran Member
 
remwines's Avatar
 
City: Jamestown, Ca.
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Down East Yankee
Vessel Model: Defever 40 by Down East
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 96
[You mentioned white smoke, steam or white smoke?]

Pretty sure it's white smoke. It did not dissipate like steam. Hopefully injector overhauls will clear that up.

[Your electric get home motor may not have sufficient thrust to maintain steerage in anything but very calm conditions.]

I was surprised. The 7.5 Kw genset and 7.5 hp Baldor motor pushed it around 3.5 to 4 knots. But I don't know if that will be enough for rough water and I am not going to count on it.

We are taking our time and going to do some fishing and maybe some diving around the islands before heading up the coast. If there is a fuel contaminate issue, hopefully we will know about it before Point Conception. If need be, I will try to find rough water around the Channel Islands to stir up the tanks. I figure it is better to find the bad stuff there than half way between the islands and Port San Luis.
remwines is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2013, 01:56 PM   #24
Guru
 
Tom.B's Avatar
 
City: Cary, NC
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Skinny Dippin'
Vessel Model: Navigator 4200 Classic
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 5,153
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adelaide View Post
You should go with 2 micron filters. You want all contaminants caught by your Racor.
Be careful with this. Better check the engine manufacturer's requirements. While you can scrub fuel all day at 2, your engine's fuel management may need something different. Of course, there have been several discussions about this here and, as you might expect, differing opinions abound.

Tom-
__________________
2000 Navigator 4200 Classic
(NOT a trawler)
Tom.B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2013, 02:09 PM   #25
Guru
 
SCOTTEDAVIS's Avatar
 
City: Vero Beach, FL.
Country: US
Vessel Name: FIREFLY
Vessel Model: Pilgrim 40
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 913
I am of the school that 2mic filters in the first filter is to fine, esp. if you think you have dirty fuel.

I added a pair of large spinoff filters in series at 20 micron then filter to 10 mic in the 2 Racors with a valve to switch between them. The on motor is 2 filters at 2mic. I am feeding a Ford/Saber 135hp

You can get the spin off filter holder at any truck stop and an arm-full of filters a lot cheaper then the marina.
SCOTTEDAVIS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2013, 04:03 PM   #26
Master and Commander
 
markpierce's Avatar
 
City: Vallejo CA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Carquinez Coot
Vessel Model: 2011 Seahorse Marine Coot hull #6
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 10,262
Yesterday, the boatyard mechanic couldn't get the Coot's engine to run after having serviced the engine (including valve adjustment and on-engine fuel filters.) Neither could I after showing up to answer the mechanic's call for help. Fuel wasn't getting to the engine and there was a lot of air in the fuel line. Normally use the fuel polisher pump to prime the engine. Had everyone puzzled until a fibrous blockage was found in the fuel line prior to the filters. Am looking forward to examining the fibrous mass.
__________________
Kar-KEEN-ez Koot
markpierce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2013, 05:27 PM   #27
Veteran Member
 
Astral Blue's Avatar
 
City: California Delta
Country: Sacramento, CA
Vessel Name: Astral Blue
Vessel Model: Bayliner Victoria 2750 Command Bridge
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 71
Send a message via Yahoo to Astral Blue
Quote:
Originally Posted by RickB View Post

If such a standard existed it would be easy for you to find.

Still waiting for you to explain how filtering can change the fuel properties.
ASTM and ANSI standards are located not in a simple booklet that one can flip through; they are located in volumes that can fill several bookshelves. While I have access to this information, it would take a considerable amount of my time to locate it. It is for that reason I extended an invitation to you. The invitation still stands.

If you read my post carefully, you will notice I said no such thing about filtering changing the properties of fuel. Rather, I indicated filtering the microorganisms and adding biocide will degrade the fuel.

In the future, kindly make such requests via PM. I'm happy to carry on the conversation with you in private. Making references to others statements as nonsense and asking for information that doesn't directly help the OP is not only inconsiderate, it distracts us from focusing on the OP's dilemma and working to resolve it. We are here to help the OP, not to prove ourselves to you.

With that said, let's get this thread back on track.
__________________
Ed & Lindsey
California Delta

1977 Bayliner Victoria Astral Blue Repowered with Perkins 4.108 Diesel
Astral Blue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2013, 05:34 PM   #28
Senior Member
 
Adelaide's Avatar
 
City: La Conner, WA
Country: USA
Vessel Model: 1983 Tung Hwa Clipper
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 365
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom.B View Post

Be careful with this. Better check the engine manufacturer's requirements. While you can scrub fuel all day at 2, your engine's fuel management may need something different. Of course, there have been several discussions about this here and, as you might expect, differing opinions abound.

Tom-
My Ford Lehman has been using 2 micron Racor filters for years.....so has my fathers Lehman. But I agree, the OP should check with his manufacturer.
Adelaide is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2013, 07:01 PM   #29
TF Site Team
 
FlyWright's Avatar
 
City: California Delta and SF Bay
Country: Sacramento, CA, USA (boat in Vallejo)
Vessel Name: FlyWright
Vessel Model: Marshall Californian 34 LRC
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 10,178
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adelaide View Post
My Ford Lehman has been using 2 micron Racor filters for years.....so has my fathers Lehman. But I agree, the OP should check with his manufacturer.
Same with my 4.236 Perkins. When I called my local Perkins dealer about the Racor filter specs, he said 2 microns.
__________________
Al

Custom Google Trawler Forum Search
FlyWright is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2013, 07:17 PM   #30
Senior Member
 
Adelaide's Avatar
 
City: La Conner, WA
Country: USA
Vessel Model: 1983 Tung Hwa Clipper
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 365
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyWright View Post

Same with my 4.236 Perkins. When I called my local Perkins dealer about the Racor filter specs, he said 2 microns.
I suppose that the theory is that filters clog quicker, left unchanged could produce more wear on a fuel pump in some engines.
Adelaide is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2013, 08:47 PM   #31
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Avalon, NJ
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 15,883
The operative words "left unchanged"...

the engine doesn't know or care about the micron rating only a restriction in flow.

too big all the way to the injector pump would be a problem.
psneeld is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2013, 10:45 PM   #32
Veteran Member
 
remwines's Avatar
 
City: Jamestown, Ca.
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Down East Yankee
Vessel Model: Defever 40 by Down East
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 96
I'm going to have a lot of filters on board and will install the Racor vacuum gauge. Since I plan on checking the sediment bowl and vacuum gauge hourly for awhile, I could use a 2 micron filter and change it out more often. Figure it would be better to catch as much of it there rather than sending it down to the other filters.
remwines is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2013, 11:32 PM   #33
Master and Commander
 
markpierce's Avatar
 
City: Vallejo CA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Carquinez Coot
Vessel Model: 2011 Seahorse Marine Coot hull #6
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 10,262
My John Deere has a 10-micron filter. Makes me wonder why I bother with the 2-micron Racor filter (as opposed to a 10) preparatory to the engine.

__________________
Kar-KEEN-ez Koot
markpierce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2013, 03:24 AM   #34
Senior Member
 
Adelaide's Avatar
 
City: La Conner, WA
Country: USA
Vessel Model: 1983 Tung Hwa Clipper
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 365
Quote:
Originally Posted by remwines View Post
I'm going to have a lot of filters on board and will install the Racor vacuum gauge. Since I plan on checking the sediment bowl and vacuum gauge hourly for awhile, I could use a 2 micron filter and change it out more often. Figure it would be better to catch as much of it there rather than sending it down to the other filters.
What engine do you have?
Adelaide is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2013, 07:38 AM   #35
Veteran Member
 
remwines's Avatar
 
City: Jamestown, Ca.
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Down East Yankee
Vessel Model: Defever 40 by Down East
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adelaide View Post
What engine do you have?
A Ford Industrial SSD-655M, same as an Aifo Iveco 8061M04. It is 120 or 130HP. I'll confirm the HP in a few days when the new engine manuals arrive.
remwines is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2013, 08:41 AM   #36
Senior Member
 
cafesport's Avatar
 
City: Miami
Country: USA
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 492
Since you have already bought the boat and are just now questioning the fuel and the fuel system, I would take a few steps back and review the survey. Did your surveyor inspect the tanks and sample the fuel? If he didn't you should now. Is there any water in the bottom of the fuel tanks? What is the ph of the fuel? Any bacterial growth? Any tank corrosion issues? How are the primary filters age and hours? Any water in the bowls? If so better pull the injectors and inspect the tips for corrosion. Polishing? Yes, I would do so with those 2 micron filters. As far as vacuum gauges go, the only reliable readings happen at wot, by then, if you have a problem, it's probably too late. Whatever fuel filtration system you have on this engine is designed to work as a complete system. Using a 2 micron primary filter in a system that was designed for a 30 with a 10 micron secondary is going to cost you way more than a case of 2 micron filters. Also the primary and secondary filters should be changed annually at a minimum and additionally as recommended by the manufacturer. Change the air filters too while you are at it, diesels really only need clean air and clean fuel to keep everyone happy. Now get out there and run that girl and have some fun.
__________________
Via iOS.
cafesport is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2013, 09:42 AM   #37
TF Site Team
 
Larry M's Avatar
 
City: JAX, FL
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Hobo
Vessel Model: Krogen 42-120
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 5,734
Quote:
Originally Posted by cafesport View Post
... What is the ph of the fuel? ...
How do you test the pH? And what are acceptable limits?
Larry M is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2013, 10:05 PM   #38
Senior Member
 
cafesport's Avatar
 
City: Miami
Country: USA
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 492
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry M View Post

How do you test the pH? And what are acceptable limits?
For aluminum or iron tanks anything approaching the ph of vinegar say 5 or less would be a problem. You can test any water with a simple ph strip. Some fuel additives emulsify water, so just because there is no water in the tank don't assume every thing is fine. A fuel sample sent to a lab for a complete analysis should have been part of the survey. Only then can you truly know the quality of the fuel in the tank.
__________________
Via iOS.
cafesport is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2013, 05:23 AM   #39
Scraping Paint
 
City: Fort Lauderdale
Vessel Model: CHB 48 Zodiac YL 4.2
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,804
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry M View Post
How do you test the pH? And what are acceptable limits?
Diesel fuel is not tested for pH. There are no "acceptable limits." There is no pH standard for diesel fuel.

Acidity (not pH) is a concern with lube oils, biodiesel fuel, and biodiesel blends and it is tested for what is called the Total Acid Number which is not a measure of pH.

Fuel quality testing by legitimate labs is available if you want to pay for it, it's not expensive.

The link that follows is for a representative lab, they do what all the other good labs do. This particular lab just happens to have a comprehensive website that explains the process and the tests in clear language. Read the list of tests, click on the test to read the standards and purpose of the test. Note which tests are performed on which products for what reason. Follow the "additional resources" link.

Educate yourself on these issues, it is your only defense against voodoo engineering, witch doctors, snake oil salesmen and their followers.

Diesel Fuel Analysis: Fuel Sample Analysis, Filter Plugging
RickB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2013, 08:33 AM   #40
TF Site Team
 
Larry M's Avatar
 
City: JAX, FL
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Hobo
Vessel Model: Krogen 42-120
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 5,734
Thanks for posting the link.
__________________

Larry M is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:56 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012