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Old 12-27-2015, 08:15 AM   #141
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" Every boat is a compromise and that larger engine room space has to come out of somewhere."

To me another individual "compromise" is a huge head space.

While it may serve double purpose as a library for guys , its still a 95%+ unoccupied space.

On our 50 ft boat the outside space and PH was optimized for our use m, requiring a smaller below deck space.

A "wet head" where the Skipper toilet is bolted inside a std shower pan , with 360 deg curtain works as well as a seperiate compartment .

Common on smaller boats , but works as well in larger craft where space saving is desired.
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Old 12-27-2015, 08:26 AM   #142
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" Every boat is a compromise and that larger engine room space has to come out of somewhere."

To me another individual "compromise" is a huge head space.

While it may serve double purpose as a library for guys , its still a 95%+ unoccupied space.

On our 50 ft boat the outside space and PH was optimized for our use m, requiring a smaller below deck space.

A "wet head" where the Skipper toilet is bolted inside a std shower pan , with 360 deg curtain works as well as a seperiate compartment .

Common on smaller boats , but works as well in larger craft where space saving is desired.
Yes, my head doubles as a shower but as you point out it's unoccupied most of the time so that's a pretty good compromise.

We have a hot/cold transom shower and when appropriate, this is where we take showers. Non cleanup afterwards and no moving stuff out of the way so it won't get wet.

Of course our first shower choice is the marina shower with unlimited water..
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Old 12-27-2015, 08:32 AM   #143
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We have a wet head as well . Just last year we put in a flush mount euro shower head a faucet . We gained about 7" of wall space taking out the old faucet . In a small wet head 7" is a bunch .
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Old 12-27-2015, 09:12 AM   #144
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I would choose a decent head, with seperate shower/sink/toilet,storage,etc, kinda like home, over a standup engine room everytime. I visit that space a lot and spend way more time in the head than the engine room. My wife doesnt care about the engine room but she likes the shower with a place to sit while shaving her legs and shelves for her incredible array of conditioners and shampoos.
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Old 12-27-2015, 09:35 AM   #145
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In our thoughtfully well appointed, space saving/giving, and overall very roomy 34' x 12'6" Tollycraft tri Cabin we have two fully equipped heads... large one in master stateroom and a quite feasible one in front V-Berth room. Being 6'1', a life time heavy-weight lifter and staying in trim at 235 lbs for decades... both heads are very comfortable for me, including the use of their integral showers. Admiral is fine with then too! One or two separate shower rooms would eat up too much space in a boat our size. Larger boats' separated showers are OK.

In SF Delta, where we boat spring summer fall, the fresh water is for swimming. Showers are not normally required during our multi day play times. I figure that showering consumes less than .001% of time aboard... wet heads work well as space savers/givers on our Tolly!
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Old 12-27-2015, 02:24 PM   #146
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Wifey B: Head must be nice sized. We both must have a little claustrophobic tendency, especially hubby but then I think his size adds to it. Oh and not a wet shower, plus the shower must have space for two....that's clearly for the purpose of saving water of course.
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Old 12-27-2015, 02:53 PM   #147
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Wifey B: Head must be nice sized. We both must have a little claustrophobic tendency, especially hubby but then I think his size adds to it. Oh and not a wet shower, plus the shower must have space for two....that's clearly for the purpose of saving water of course.
Warm, fresh water swimming can be close fun too!!
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Old 12-27-2015, 05:10 PM   #148
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I would choose a decent head, with seperate shower/sink/toilet,storage,etc, kinda like home, over a standup engine room everytime. I visit that space a lot and spend way more time in the head than the engine room. My wife doesnt care about the engine room but she likes the shower with a place to sit while shaving her legs and shelves for her incredible array of conditioners and shampoos.
Well, some buy a DeFevers where you can have it all including two heads with separate stand up showers. With a washer dryer laundry room thrown in too!
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Old 12-27-2015, 05:59 PM   #149
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Except, how much "living, useable, everyday" space do you give up in a 48 foot boat to be able to sorta stand up while looking at your engines.
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Old 12-27-2015, 06:25 PM   #150
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Except, how much "living, useable, everyday" space do you give up in a 48 foot boat to be able to sorta stand up while looking at your engines.
On a trawler like boat, all you give up is moving your center of balance up a few inches. You're essentially just raising the main deck. Now the better manufacturers have figured out how to compensate and increase head room without causing other issues.
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Old 12-27-2015, 07:47 PM   #151
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Except, how much "living, useable, everyday" space do you give up in a 48 foot boat to be able to sorta stand up while looking at your engines.
Nothing lost that I can tell.
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Old 12-27-2015, 08:03 PM   #152
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There is one other factor in increasing head room in addition to any design or stability issues. Cost. Building a house with 9' ceilings costs more than 8'. Same issues with a boat.
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Old 12-27-2015, 09:16 PM   #153
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Agreed on the single engine access. It's too bad that they never made a left / right configuration for a twin engine boat and have the serviceable components ( pumps, filters, alt. etc. on the inside. ) In my case ( Kha Shing 40 @ Twin Cummins ) I have by boat standards a decent engine room but one engine is almost non - serviceable. Frank B.
Another advantage of having a boat that was engineered in the USA by Americans who think like most people in first world countries. My (POS) Carver has remote dipsticks....oil and fuel filters...as well as strainers and seacocks in a central location. Now if they just could have made a remote raw water pump...
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Old 12-27-2015, 09:30 PM   #154
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Except, how much "living, useable, everyday" space do you give up in a 48 foot boat to be able to sorta stand up while looking at your engines.
The Defever pretty much wins for checking all boxes in a boat under 50 feet. Phenomenal engine room as well as tremendous space throughout the boat. My only gripe would be line handling on the sundeck boats...which is remedied by a cockpit.
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Old 12-27-2015, 09:38 PM   #155
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Wet heads. I have found two principal reasons why couples give up cruising, health and the wife is not happy. Thus the question is not whether you spend a lot of time in the head but whether the wife is happy.
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Old 12-27-2015, 09:38 PM   #156
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Now if they just could have made a remote raw water pump...
Bake: Can do! There's at least two Krogens running around having gensets with capped-off impeller areas running A/C raw water pumps for feed. Of course, they have auto shut-down sensors should the temp get too high. My Northern Lights 4.5KW unit has a pump with a ceramic seal on one side of the shaft. I've just put in a new seal and have a spare complete pump, but I've thought of doing the same thing if the seal craps out again.

A couple of years ago I saw a marinized International DT466 with an electric waterpump for raw feed. Seems reasonable if you have sufficient GPM and lift capacity through the engine's RPM range, and making it remote is a matter of extending the lines. They're out there.
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Old 12-27-2015, 09:41 PM   #157
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Bake: Can do! There's at least two Krogens running around having gensets with capped-off impeller areas running A/C raw water pumps for feed. Of course, they have auto shut-down sensors should the temp get too high. My Northern Lights 4.5KW unit has a pump with a ceramic seal on one side of the shaft. I've just put in a new seal and have a spare complete pump, but I've thought of doing the same thing if the seal craps out again.

A couple of years ago I saw a marinized International DT466 with an electric waterpump for raw feed. Seems reasonable if you have sufficient GPM and lift capacity through the engine's RPM range, and making it remote is a matter of extending the lines. They're out there.
Something to consider. You would absolutely positively have to have a raw water flow alarm system! Those March/Taylormade pumps are awfully reliable but they do not like to run dry. Of course you would have to have a continuous AC power source....complicating things!
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Old 12-28-2015, 07:28 AM   #158
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Not always possible either, but belt driven water pumps don't have to be on the engine...could be mounted to a stringer on a better side. If gear driven and the engine has belts anyway....could change over to belt driven.


Sometimes it is just developing an special technique to get to the pump, even removing it over opening it and if necessary creating special tools to help.


Undecided whether I would try electric on a main....no problem with a genset.
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Old 12-28-2015, 07:32 AM   #159
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"Now the better manufacturers have figured out how to compensate and increase head room without causing other issues."

Stability and low easy motion are vastly over rated?
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Old 12-28-2015, 08:37 AM   #160
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IMO, engine room layout is far more important than being able to stand up through out the room. If the engine(s) are mounted so low as to require bending down or kneeling to do pre-start checks, much of the advantages of a stand up room is lost. Having all checks and more frequent service items including the raw water pump, on the same side for the engine and generator, is a better design. Having hatches that open over the walk way on the service side of the engine is an added bonus. Having wide enough walk ways to allow a stool to sit on while doing maintenance is a big plus.

The 2 rectangular openings on the right are hatches to the service side of the engine and generator. The walk way next to the engine is a very reasonable place to sit on a stool and work with all fuel related valving separators and transfer / polishing pump located on the outboard side of the walk way.

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