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Old 02-18-2013, 12:38 PM   #21
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Still I don't hear of any real differences like pre-chambers or direct injection, glow plugs, combustion chamber/piston crown shape, ring design, flywheel dia/weight, valve gear differences, bore/stroke differences, number of main bearings ect ect ect. There must be some differences that are worth mentioning.
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Old 02-18-2013, 01:01 PM   #22
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I have had both a Perkins T6.354(circa 1978) and a Lehman 120(circa 1983).
I got rid of the Perkins in my previous boat because I had a very hard time finding and getting parts. Perkins set up strict districts and mine didn't know squat about Perkins and hence the trouble. TAD wouldn't sell to me (they gave me all the part numbers I asked for) because I was out of their district. Plus the marine add on parts were very very expensive. And I had the "contra-rotating" version and some parts were extrememly rare.

The Lehman is very easy to get parts for thru ADC. And they are cheap.
I don't like having the change injector pump oil as often as recommended though, and that is my dislike for Lehmans.

My opinion is that the base engines are comparable. They are both "old heavy iron" engines and will last lots of hours.
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Old 02-18-2013, 01:19 PM   #23
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Overall I loved my old perkins 4-236's. Very reliable and easy to fix.

The only negatives I saw after 8 years of ownership were.

1. I had to order a new thermostat housing from england at something like $800. The header tank on that side was also bad, but we managed to repair it when we found out a replacement would have been over $1,000.

2. They slobber a lot of fuel and oil. I was constantly fixing (and sometimes failing to fix) leaks. From what I have heard it is the nature of the breed. Cork gaskets.

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Old 02-18-2013, 02:46 PM   #24
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Thanks

I never expected so many thoughtful answers to my, what i thought was a simple question and wish to thank everyone for taking the time to answer. I suppose what i have gotten out of your comments is that they are both pretty much equal and fine engine systems for old iron with the Perkins maybe a bit more difficult to procure parts for than the Lehman.
Again, I thank you all for your thoughtful postings. Marin's answer reflects my feelings of old iron but the truth is i have new and old non marine diesel engine systems and while the new ones are quieter, make more horsepower, they are most definitely more difficult to maintain than the old. Another down side to new iron is the computer control systems and associated parts are not so easy jury rigged in an emergency like the old iron. Old iron is simple straight forward and with a stock of spare parts are not likely ever to fail. Try finding a new turbo or spare FICM< fuel injector control module> down in the spare parts locker when needed. Old iron, got nuttin but a very reliable high pressure fuel pump with manual injectors not likely to fail. As far as the engine its self i have yet to hear of one failing. I have heard of the newer turbo marine engines disassembling themselves in a heart beat but never a Perkins or Lehman. All they do is loose water pumps, starters, alternators, heat exchangers and hoses. Anyway, that said i have really come to appreciate the noisy simplicity of the old iron in contrast to the quiet complexity of modern
Diesel power systems. Thanks to you all I won't make the decision based upon perkins or Lehman unless its a twin vrs. single.

and my friends, I wish to thank you all again for trying to help me make a selection.
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Old 02-18-2013, 03:43 PM   #25
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A Perkins, why because we have one. It has never let us down.
A Lehman because we have two of them and everyone knows two are exponentially more prone to failure, so mine must be exemplary motors.
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Old 02-18-2013, 04:31 PM   #26
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A Lehman because we have two of them and everyone knows two are exponentially more prone to failure, so mine must be exemplary motors.
come on guys, the olny ones i have talked to that had failures were twins. Maybe because the singles that failed visited Davy Jones?
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Old 02-18-2013, 04:39 PM   #27
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SILENCE!!!!!!!!!! The Moderator has spoken!
Did Gonzo post something?

As I've previously stated, I've had DDs, Perkins, Cummins & Cats. The only two brands that I've had zero trouble with are Cummins (4) and Perkins (2).
The Perkins were a little quieter than the Cummins but both brands were excellent!
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Old 02-18-2013, 05:11 PM   #28
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I saw your pix Hendo, thanks, and the perkins looked pretty easy as far as assembly goes. But I'll bet your perkins really didnt need a rebuild but i like the idea of new injectors and pump. Oil coolers heat exchengers Bomac recomends replaceing every two years. Bomac is a Ford Lehman engine rebuilder. I asked about the oil cooler and heat exchanger replacement and here at the forum folks saidthey replace them only when needed. Humm, does that mean most wait until they fail to replace? I'm not into breakdowns so would likely take them out and inspect them at least every other year to be safe.
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Old 02-18-2013, 06:12 PM   #29
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Floyd,
How do you "inspect" a heat exchanger or oil cooler? I don't see how one could "see" when one was about to fail?

I think I'll replace my oil cooler this spring. Been 7 years.
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Old 02-18-2013, 07:31 PM   #30
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So we conclude that both are similar. The benefit of old low tech can not be overstated if you cruise in out of the way places. I personally get much confidence knowing that when the shit hits the fan I can probably fix it. That is lessened with twins. As to your opinion that Lehman may have a parts advantage might be factored by price if that matters to you. There are significantly more perkins engines in ag equipment that Ford. So cheaper ag parts for a Perkins are probably more available. If your goal is parts availability consider a cat or deere, particularly cat at least in the states.
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Old 02-18-2013, 10:49 PM   #31
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Floyd,
How do you "inspect" a heat exchanger or oil cooler? I don't see how one could "see" when one was about to fail?

I think I'll replace my oil cooler this spring. Been 7 years.

Good question Eric and one that has already come to mind as a result of this thread. With my past experiance the first idea was to measure in "H2O the presure drop accross the oil cooler. A new oil cooler without any corrosion should have the least presure drop because the inside surfaces are smooth but as metal is corroded creating a rough surface which I suspect will impede the flow of water. Modern high dollar yatchs have monitoring systems that will warm of impeding failures allowing the captain to make the repair before breakdown. I'm thinking it would be all that had to monitor the critical engine system parts that could leave one dead in the water enabling parts to be replaced before failure. You would need to measure exhaust temp at the manifold and ......welll maybe i should start another thred to seek input from experianced salts for ideas of what systems are the ones most likely to fail and then go from there. First glance says it wouldnt be all that dificult to retrofit a monitoring system complete with alarms. The dificult part will be determining what parameters if met will likely end in failure for a given component.
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Old 02-18-2013, 10:57 PM   #32
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So we conclude that both are similar. The benefit of old low tech can not be overstated if you cruise in out of the way places. I personally get much confidence knowing that when the shit hits the fan I can probably fix it. That is lessened with twins. As to your opinion that Lehman may have a parts advantage might be factored by price if that matters to you. There are significantly more perkins engines in ag equipment that Ford. So cheaper ag parts for a Perkins are probably more available. If your goal is parts availability consider a cat or deere, particularly cat at least in the states.
Good point Capn Craig, thanks, i hadnt considered that. So the pendalum may be swinging the other way. But the truth is they are both two of the best power systems out there and most certainly would likely be voted as the most reliable, period. I think a vessel with either one is a plus and deciding factors would be maintenence records engine hours vessel over all condition not the engine brand.
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Old 02-19-2013, 01:15 AM   #33
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Floyd,
How do you "inspect" a heat exchanger or oil cooler? I don't see how one could "see" when one was about to fail?

I think I'll replace my oil cooler this spring. Been 7 years.
I think Lehman recommend replacing oil coolers at 2000 hours but don`t recall an "hours" advice on servicing main heat exchangers. Too many other factors perhaps? Every 5 years was my understanding for them.
Other thoughts anyone?
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Old 02-19-2013, 02:26 AM   #34
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Floyd,
How do you "inspect" a heat exchanger or oil cooler? I don't see how one could "see" when one was about to fail?

I think I'll replace my oil cooler this spring. Been 7 years.
"Inspect" covers a wide variety of applications. You can visually inspect my two oil coolers and heat exchanger.

Preventative maintenance, which includes visual inspections, is the key.
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Old 02-19-2013, 02:27 AM   #35
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I saw your pix Hendo, thanks, and the perkins looked pretty easy as far as assembly goes. But I'll bet your perkins really didnt need a rebuild but i like the idea of new injectors and pump. Oil coolers heat exchengers Bomac recomends replaceing every two years. Bomac is a Ford Lehman engine rebuilder. I asked about the oil cooler and heat exchanger replacement and here at the forum folks saidthey replace them only when needed. Humm, does that mean most wait until they fail to replace? I'm not into breakdowns so would likely take them out and inspect them at least every other year to be safe.
Nah didn't need the rebuild but I'm an anal bastard and wanted to know she was sound and not just rely on a compression check and oil scan.

Glad I've done it tho :-D
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Old 02-19-2013, 06:15 AM   #36
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Floyd,
How do you "inspect" a heat exchanger or oil cooler? I don't see how one could "see" when one was about to fail? I think I'll replace my oil cooler this spring. Been 7 years.
I can tell you how you can tell Eric. It illustrates the worth of having a quick squissy ( Ozspeak for look), at the engine when started each time if possible. I went down one day, not long after we had quite a long outing in the boat, and while checking the engine prior to starting it, noticed a water drip near one end of the tranny oil cooler, ( same as the engine oil cooler), and when I started it, water squirted out from a failing end join, which had finally corroded through. Next step was mechanic assessment. Ended up needing new oil cooler, new heat exchanger, and new exhaust elbow, because the exhaust elbow was touching the heat exchanger, and the point of contact corroded. Needless to say, now all coolers replaced and no contact that should not be contacting. That's how you tell....expensively. I think your plan is good.
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Old 02-19-2013, 10:18 AM   #37
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"squissy" ... "( Ozspeak for look)" ... I'da never thunk. Well since my coolers don't have sea water in them they should last much longer than 7 years I'm think'in. And I think my main heat exchanger that I mounted on a bulkhead should be OK too as it's considerably protected by the pencil zincs. Interesting about the touchy/contact thing. I'll go have a quick squissy and see if there's any touchy/feely things going on w my coolers. Thanks Peter.
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Old 02-19-2013, 05:53 PM   #38
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I think Lehman recommend replacing oil coolers at 2000 hours but don`t recall an "hours" advice on servicing main heat exchangers. Too many other factors perhaps? Every 5 years was my understanding for them.
Other thoughts anyone?
Bomac recomends replacement every two years for oil coolers and heat exchangers Bomac Marine- Ford Lehman Engines Parts, Remanufacture and Service
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Old 02-20-2013, 08:26 AM   #39
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Perkins is better cause there is an animation video of one haha

http://youtu.be/qDG6hwpou80
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Old 02-20-2013, 10:35 AM   #40
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Floyd,
If I was a loyal customer of Bomac since my Willy was new I'd have gone through
39 heat exchangers and 78 oil coolers to this point in Willy's long life.

Looks like Bomac is pushing as much product as they can.
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