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Old 06-01-2009, 07:31 PM   #61
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RE: Oil cooler on FW instead of raw water side of the cooling system

The boat is a 40' Puget Trawler, Taiwan Trawler style. Single 120 Lehman. Of course if someone wants to make a true speed/RPM chart you need to run both ways and do it several times to get good numbers. But with a good tide flushing you in thru a narrow channel I just don't want to think about what the numbers would be going the other way.

As most slow boaters do, I try to run with the tide whenever I can.

Hey FF, hows that rudder work for you when you're getting 1000 MPG down river? Is this why the downriver boat gets the right of way? Because you've got no control?

Ken
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Old 06-01-2009, 11:28 PM   #62
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RE: Oil cooler on FW instead of raw water side of the cooling system

Thanks Ken,

Is that like a CHB only much bigger? I really like the CHBs. The lines of the hull aft are much more like a displacement hull than other semi-disp hulls even though the chines hint only of a strait run aft. Id like to see a picture of your boat Ken and some CHBs from other members.

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Old 06-02-2009, 04:23 AM   #63
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RE: Oil cooler on FW instead of raw water side of the cooling system

Is this why the downriver boat gets the right of way? Because you've got no control? smile.gif

Check with Huck Finn!
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Old 06-02-2009, 10:46 AM   #64
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RE: Oil cooler on FW instead of raw water side of the cooling system

The Taiwan Trawlers were made at a north end yard and a south end yard. Supposedly the two were owned by brothers or close relatives depending on who's telling the story. The most common CHB is the 34' tri-cabin trawler. There are also many others made on pretty much the same pattern. The others are listed as 37', and then the 39-40-41' depending on who imported it and how they wanted to pay taxes and outfit. (remembering the 39.4? foot breakover point on CG regs) They also made I think a 45 foot, but I don't know much about them, there are some experts around who I'm sure can set this straight.

The story goes that "families" would get boats from the yard to finish off. They put the decks together, made the cabinetry etc which is why there is such a wide disparity in quality from boat to boat. Some folks report pieces of packing crate uses as sub decking, others have nicely fitted plywood.

The importers would assign brand names as they saw fit for the different boats. Most often the 34's were all called CHB. The larger boats in my area were often called Puget Trawlers. My boat was imported by Edmonds Yacht Sales and has a Puget Trawler brass plaque and all the documentation papers refer to it as a Puget Trawler.

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Old 06-02-2009, 11:23 AM   #65
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Oil cooler on FW instead of raw water side of the cooling system

Quote:
2bucks wrote:
The story goes that "families" would get boats from the yard to finish off. They put the decks together, made the cabinetry etc which is why there is such a wide disparity in quality from boat to boat. Some folks report pieces of packing crate uses as sub decking, others have nicely fitted plywood.
This is true.* There were (and maybe still are) a number of small, family-run boatyards on Taiwan.* From what I've been told by shipwrights in our area who have worked on a number of these boats, the main plants in Taiwan*would lay up the hulls and usually the basic deck and*cabin shells.* Then these components would be sent to one of the family yards for completion.* While the basic finishing processes were fairly standardized, what varied widely were the materials that were used, particularly as stiffeners in cabin structures that would not be visible from outside or inside the boat.* Some yards used quality marine ply, for example.* Other yards used cut-up packing crates and pallets.

Before anyone gasps in horror at the notion of using an old packing crate or pallet, they need to know how these things are usually made in Asia.* Packing crates are more often than not made out of very nice mahogany ply with mahogany framing.* The huge aircraft maintenance and rebuild comapny we just spent two months at in Xiamen, China, has a big wood shop where they build shipping crates and pallets for the parts they send out.* These things are gorgeous, all brand new mahogany.* Same deal over on Taiwan.

But--- the ply is not marine-grade which means the glue holding the plys together will break down if it stays wet for any period of time.

Where this can prove to be a problem in a boat like a CHB is that when a window starts to leak--- and every boat's windows will leak eventually---- the water can run down inside the cabin wall structure and soak the wood stiffeners and*strengthening panels *that the yard installed.* If the wood used was packing crate/pallet material, it will delaminate pretty quickly and it's just a matter of time before it gets soft as*rot sets in.* Not that stiffeners made of marine-quality ply won't eventually start to soften and rot over time if they get and stay wet, but they will resist this longer than the non-marine stuff.

So the "problem" with a number of the Taiwan trawlers, at least back in the 70s and 80s, was a lack of consistency.* CHB34 hull number 500 might have been completed by a yard that used high-quality materials for things like cabin sidewall stiffeners and so on, where CHB34 hull number 501 might have been completed by a yard that used cut up packing crates and pallets.* Which is why, it was explained to me when we started looking for our own trawler, that these types of boats need to be examined and surveyed very, very carefully.* Not because they are bad boats or poor designs, but to make sure that the boat in question is not sufferering from the consequences of less-than-ideal yard practices.

One of the greatest advantages of a Grand Banks boat is not so much the design--- it's a good one for this type of boat but there are plenty of others that are just as good if not better--- but that American Marine built all their boats, first wood and then glass, using the same, standardized processes and material quality on all of them.* All their boats were built by the parent company, first in Kowloon across from Hong Kong and then in their Singapore yard where they did all the glass boats starting in mid-1973, and today in the Singapore and Malaysia yards.

*


-- Edited by Marin on Tuesday 2nd of June 2009 11:26:34 AM
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Old 06-02-2009, 05:07 PM   #66
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RE: Oil cooler on FW instead of raw water side of the cooling system

And...... as Marin will attest, the early GB's with all top grade marine plywood sides and bridge panels eventually separate and need replacement. Many GB owners have the same plywood problems that the CHB's suffer from. It's a matter of time before plywood comes apart if water gets to it. The real key to longevity is keeping the water out, or if water is going to invariably get in, make it salt water.

This is where the teak deck vs glassed deck debate starts. This is where the rusty fuel tank debate starts. This is where the how do I properly bed my windows so they don't leak debate starts.

I started out with the intent to buy a GB the last time I traded boats. I found as many structural type problems with them as I did with similar CHB's. There is no comparison on joinery work inside a GB. Most CHB's are not as well put together. The other problems though are similar, teak decks, rusty fuel tanks, rotted walls under windows. CHB did have the all glassed flybridge though, so they avoid the delaminated bridge.

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Old 06-02-2009, 08:28 PM   #67
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Oil cooler on FW instead of raw water side of the cooling system

Our '73 GB, which is from the end of the first year of fiberglass, has solid glass flying bridge sides, front and consol. There is a big, one-piece exterior layup (front and sides) and then three (I think) interior layups that are fastened to the exterior shell. There is an air space between them. Then there are two solid fiberglass layups for the two bench seat/propane locker/storage components. I've drilled various holes in the sides of the flying bridge, inside and out, to mount antennas and whatnot and the drill bit never brings out any wood, just glass. The cabin sides are solid fiberglass as well. However, there is plenty of wood structure against and fastened to the interior of the fiberglass cabin sides like the interior window sills and trim, framing to hold the interior wall panels, settees, etc. This stuff gets wet if a window starts to leak.

The subddeck of a glass GB is a sandwich--- a heavy layer of glass on top of a thick plywood core with a thinner layer of glass on the bottom. The teak planking is screwed to the subdeck (except on the newest boats where it's glued) so it's important to preserve the watertightness of the deck screws, plugs, and seams. THis construction is one reason we always wash our deck down with salt water, not fresh.

At the time we bought our boat, the broker who found it for us was in the process of making "a few repairs" plus a re-engining to his own GB32, which I believe was hull number 7. So a wood boat. What started out as a fairly simple replacement of a few planks ended up being a total rebuild of the flying bridge (which had plywood side and front panels that were riddled through with soft spots and rot per Ken's description) and replacing all the windows. He even eliminated the opening windows in the main cabin (other than the center windshield panel) as he felt that going to sealed fixed windows would provide less opportunity for leaks over time.

By the time he finished chasing from one uncovered problem to the next, he ended up with a boat that was probably in better shape than it had been when it left the factory. For example, all the new wood that went onto and into the boat-- at least above the waterline--- was saturated in CPES before being installed, primed, and painted. CPES didn't exist when the boat was built, so the future succession of owners will not have to deal with the moisture and delamination problems that our friend ended up dealing with.

But as Ken implies, so much of a boat's condition over time is dependent upon the preventative action taken by the owner. Window leaks that go undetected or dealt with, water leaks around fuel fills that let water pool on top of the fuel tanks and rust them out, the list goes on and on.

-- Edited by Marin on Tuesday 2nd of June 2009 08:30:04 PM
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Old 06-02-2009, 10:07 PM   #68
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RE: Oil cooler on FW instead of raw water side of the cooling system

Relative to the general drift of this conversation a broker once told me the best way to buy a boat is to find one that had been bought and sold every 3 -to 5 yrs several times where people had put lots of money into her and then they get a job in Kansas or for whatever sell the boat. Lets say one owner was a gearhead and repowered w new Luggers, the next did wonderful electronic and navigation stuff, the next did a professional Awlgrip paint job and new interior decorating * ... and the boat comes on the market in november. More or less that boat would'nt really be too hard to find especially under the present economic conditions. Guys like me who always buy the boat and not the deal almost never buy such a boat but the rest of you can get a boat worth more than a new one but for regular money.

Eric Henning
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Old 03-17-2016, 10:18 PM   #69
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Old 03-18-2016, 12:26 AM   #70
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I would like to buy a vessel after the PO went bat-shit crazy over-restoring it and then found another boat to lust after. And then maybe died and the widow didn't know and the broker was clueless and took crappy photos. Yeah, that's the ticket.


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Old 03-18-2016, 02:27 AM   #71
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I didn't read all of the posts here but I just wanted to point out that engines that are keel-cooled cool their oil with engine coolant...there was another thread here a while ago where I was trashed for suggesting all raw water cooled boats should cool their transmissions and their oil with coolant not raw water to eliminate corrosion and electrolysis in the coolers. Just sayin...
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Old 03-19-2016, 05:15 PM   #72
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I didn't read all of the posts here but I just wanted to point out that engines that are keel-cooled cool their oil with engine coolant...there was another thread here a while ago where I was trashed for suggesting all raw water cooled boats should cool their transmissions and their oil with coolant not raw water to eliminate corrosion and electrolysis in the coolers. Just sayin...
Just finished chatting with my buddy who's a commercial troller. He told me I should rip all that heat exchanger shit out and put in a keel cooler...and a dry stack exhaust...and a hydraulic windlass. Yeah right. Like I need ANOTHER project!


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Old 03-19-2016, 10:17 PM   #73
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Hi Jim, your friend is correct!
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Old 03-19-2016, 11:27 PM   #74
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Hi Jim, your friend is correct!

WHAT? I need ANOTHER boat project?! :-)


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