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Old 12-13-2010, 08:13 AM   #41
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RE: Oil Change Frequency

FF, the cheapest synthetic I've found is Rotella T at WalMart for $17.00/gallon.* I thought that was pretty good....
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Old 12-13-2010, 08:18 AM   #42
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RE: Oil Change Frequency

Dino oil is cheap,

If you ran synthetic you might have a different concept dumping $250 worth of oil.



I agree on the synthetic - but since I use Delo with my Gulf coast Paper towel filter, these are the costs:


every 100 hrs:
-paper towel $1
-1 gallon of oil $10


every year:
-oil sample test $20


every 400 hrs:
-paper towel $1
-engine oil filter $10
-5 gallons of oil $50


my oil is so clean, even the admirial will check it with bare hands.
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Old 12-13-2010, 08:24 AM   #43
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RE: Oil Change Frequency

Is all Rotella T synthetic? I use it but had no idea.
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Old 12-13-2010, 09:07 AM   #44
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RE: Oil Change Frequency

Almost as good as Delo 400 at Costco for $9/gallon. Most oils work just fine if you by select per engine spec, *change out by the book hours and watch for contaminant buildup*- it just comes down to what you want to pay and believing justifications for "synthetic" elixirs.

I'm at a disadvantage in oil selection discussions. I've operated/managed hundreds of pieces of diesel equipment during my lifetime and*use engine warranty requirements as guidelines. So my mind is made up.
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Old 12-13-2010, 09:30 AM   #45
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RE: Oil Change Frequency

bshanfelt

Gee, 400 hours is as good as my book says for normal changeout*out interval for oil and filters. I cheat though, I do it every fall whether it is at 400 hours or not, This season I did it at about 365 hours, my biggest engine use year yet.

But it is interesting, whether Gulf Coast setups, Amsoil, go by the book oils etc, there are very few marine internal engine*problems due to*lubrication failures. The engine failures I am aware of are all to often due to neglect of cooling systems, fuel system inattention, air filter problems, corrosion, not performing engine checks to pick up early warning signs, plain stupidity etc. You will never ever see on boatdiesel.com "my engine failed due to bad lubrication oil."

My guess is whether you or Delfin, you are following*mechanical issues*pretty closely and catch impending problems well before they become catastrophic. Your use of Gulf Coast shows a good hands on approach - this is why you don't have issues I betcha!!
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Old 12-13-2010, 11:05 AM   #46
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RE: Oil Change Frequency

Quote:
Doc wrote:

Is all Rotella T synthetic? I use it but had no idea.
DocThere are a variety of Rotella T products. Some are synthetic, some partially and some not. I use Rotella T 30 wt, as recommended by Caterpillar, and it is not synthetic.

*
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Old 12-13-2010, 11:16 AM   #47
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RE: Oil Change Frequency

No Doc.* The synthetic is in the blue container.* I think it's only about $4.00 more than the dino variety.
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Old 12-13-2010, 12:36 PM   #48
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RE: Oil Change Frequency

If your engine gets so hot that regular dino oil is in danger of failing your engine manufacturer will specify synthetic and you should use it. Otherwise buying and using synthetic is a waste of money. Like buying "premium" gas for your car when you don't need it**** ...again** ..a waste of money. Again** ..read the manual and use what's specified. *If you change your oil twice as often** ..that will actually extend your engine's life** ..some small amount. That's my opinion.
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Old 12-13-2010, 02:32 PM   #49
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RE: Oil Change Frequency

Quote:
nomadwilly wrote:

If your engine gets so hot that regular dino oil is in danger of failing your engine manufacturer will specify synthetic and you should use it. Otherwise buying and using synthetic is a waste of money. Like buying "premium" gas for your car when you don't need it**** ...again** ..a waste of money. Again** ..read the manual and use what's specified. *If you change your oil twice as often** ..that will actually extend your engine's life** ..some small amount. That's my opinion.

*

Hmm....the dealer of the Twindisk gear I have says I have to use Delo 300 for oil because synthetic is too slippery for it too work correctly.* Is slippery oil better than less slippery oil?* Manufacturers recommend service categories for the oil used, not its base composition.

Regular oil works fine as you're using it.* But denying the superiority of important chemical properties of synthetic oil over dino oil isn't really empirically supportable.* The superiority of synthetic oil may not be worth the price to many, but it is to me.* Since most engine wear occurs from particles in the 5 to 10 micron range, and since the OEM filter won't remove many particles in that range, a bypass filter that does makes some sense.* Add synthetic oil to the mix, and it would seem to be the best I can do to ensure I get maximum life out of the noisemaker.
*
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Old 12-13-2010, 04:10 PM   #50
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RE: Oil Change Frequency

Delfin,
When you listen to a dealer listen w both ears open. One for incoming information and the other for your own personal exhaust, discharging false information, BS and other rubbish.
Dealers are not engineers** ..lubricating, mechanical or otherwise. They just pass on information, BS and rubbish that they hear from other similarly informed and misinformed individuals.
There are advantages to synthetic lubricants just like there unquestionably is aielen life forms in outer space. Got to be some advantage. But I'm convinced it's fly stuff. If your'e running a racing motorcycle that gets its "oil" up about 300 degrees or if you are going to be required to start your engine cold at 30 below*** ..to be sure you NEED synthetic lube.
Now that I've bashed your dealer at least 6' under**** ...there's a chance he's right. So what do you want*** ..to keep your engine parts from wearing excessively or do you want the lowest friction and greatest efficency*** ... or do you want it all. Of course you*want it all*BUT how much will you gain from a measurable reduction in friction? Your engine may go 20000hrs w dino oil or 20500hrs w syn lube or even 20000hrs w either??? When I rode a motorcycle in the summer in Montana I used syn lube*to maintain the lubes higher viscosity at extreme temps. The opposite is true in a trawler. Most guys run trawlers w such a low load they don't get hot enough (warm enough) to allow their dino lube oil to perform as it should. I've recommended to some to disconnect their oil cooler. Anyway I don't think synthetic lube is worth the trouble or money if indeed there is any advantage at all.
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Old 12-13-2010, 05:53 PM   #51
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RE: Oil Change Frequency

Quote:
nomadwilly wrote:

*

Delfin,
When you listen to a dealer listen w both ears open. One for incoming information and the other for your own personal exhaust, discharging false information, BS and other rubbish.
Dealers are not engineers** ..lubricating, mechanical or otherwise. They just pass on information, BS and rubbish that they hear from other similarly informed and misinformed individuals.
There are advantages to synthetic lubricants just like there unquestionably is aielen life forms in outer space. Got to be some advantage. But I'm convinced it's fly stuff. If your'e running a racing motorcycle that gets its "oil" up about 300 degrees or if you are going to be required to start your engine cold at 30 below*** ..to be sure you NEED synthetic lube.
Now that I've bashed your dealer at least 6' under**** ...there's a chance he's right. So what do you want*** ..to keep your engine parts from wearing excessively or do you want the lowest friction and greatest efficency*** ... or do you want it all. Of course you*want it all*BUT how much will you gain from a measurable reduction in friction? Your engine may go 20000hrs w dino oil or 20500hrs w syn lube or even 20000hrs w either??? When I rode a motorcycle in the summer in Montana I used syn lube*to maintain the lubes higher viscosity at extreme temps. The opposite is true in a trawler. Most guys run trawlers w such a low load they don't get hot enough (warm enough) to allow their dino lube oil to perform as it should. I've recommended to some to disconnect their oil cooler. Anyway I don't think synthetic lube is worth the trouble or money if indeed there is any advantage at all.

*
Actually the guy I spoke with is the service manager at Twindisk in Seattle.* He said the reason synthetic is the wrong oil is because it has too high a lubricity rating, not I presume because he is a big shareholder in dino oil ltd.* High lubricity I believe translates to higher efficiency through lower friction, which would seem to be desirable.* But one thing I have learned from this site is that you can offer cancer cure in a can, and there will be five people explaining why cancer is desirable.
*
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Old 12-14-2010, 04:36 AM   #52
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RE: Oil Change Frequency

Anyway I don't think synthetic lube is worth the trouble or money if indeed there is any advantage at all.

Depends.

For the commercial folks the ability to operate 24/7 with oil that WITH SAMPELING can go 1000 or 2000 hours and only have to change filters , not oil, is very worthwhile.

A 2% or 3% decrease in fuel consumption doesn't come to much on a 3gph engine run 100 hours a year, probably not even the cost of sampeling.

My reason for sticking with Dino oil is the lack of use , sometimes weeks between uses, and the dino oil is better at rust prevention than the rapidly draining syn oil.

The "price" of dino oil was the cost of a block heater , as our DD demands 40 wt CFII oil that is thick as mud below freezing .
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Old 12-14-2010, 09:28 AM   #53
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Oil Change Frequency

FF is spot on regarding quicker drain down of synthetics from engine parts as compared to dino oil. There are however additives (think Andy Granitelli)*for synthetics that somewhat counteract this problem. But, as*suggested by many "neutral" engineers in the business, for infrequent and low stress* engine use ( such as low RPM trawlering), dino oils may indeed provide better protection during that initial few seconds of start up.

But, as Eric says, *I doubt that any of us would see the difference between synthetics and dino on our few hundred hour per year toys.


-- Edited by sunchaser on Tuesday 14th of December 2010 10:31:23 AM
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Old 12-14-2010, 10:15 AM   #54
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RE: Oil Change Frequency

"FF is spot on regarding quicker drain down of synthetic"

My experience strongly suggests the opposite. However "my experience" was w a 2 cycle motorcycle racing oil. It has such a high viscosity it won't flow in oil injection systems. Obviously it's a pre-mix only lube. Could be quite different than run of the mill synthetics like Mobil 1.
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Old 12-14-2010, 08:16 PM   #55
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RE: Oil Change Frequency

I suspect that in the kinds of engines most of our boats have, while there may be theoretical or even scientific differences between the wear experienced with dinosaur oil and synthetic oil, the reality is that all our engines will fail for some other reason long before "normal" wear becomes a significant factor. Some may die from underuse. Some may die of being run too hard. Some may die from overheating. Some may die from a catastrophic mechanical failure of some sort. But I suspect none of them--- or very, very few at best--- will die because of the wear that results with proper lubrication regardless of the whether the oil is conventional or synthetic.

Some current generation engines may require the use of synthetics because of very tight tolerance or other reasons. That's fine, and if that's the case then synthetics should be used per the manufacturer's specifications.

But the Lehmans and Perkins and (older) Cats and Cummins and Deeres, and so on aren't going to run any longer on synthetic than conventional oil because they'll fail for some other reason long before the type of oil is going to become a difference.

This seems to be the opinion of the objective (aka realist) marine diesel experts I've talked to on occasion on this subject.
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Old 12-15-2010, 06:01 PM   #56
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Oil Change Frequency

Dino-oil slow to drain?* My mother told me to change oil from a warm engine.

Call me silly, but I prefer changing oil filters at every oil change.* If the oil needs changing, I don't see the benefit of leaving an oil-filter full of over-aged/dirty oil.* We aren't making sourdough bread, you know.

-- Edited by markpierce on Wednesday 15th of December 2010 07:02:37 PM
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Old 12-15-2010, 08:29 PM   #57
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RE: Oil Change Frequency

Mark,Yea that's what Marin thinks too. I say Hmmmm should I change the oil in the engine and leave the filter or should I just leave it all till normal change time. I change the oil AND filter about as much as you guys do but I change just the engine oil in between those times. And Mom's right. Also changing it after 3 hrs running under higher loads is much better than warming the engine 10 min only. Sourdough bread sounds good though.
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Old 12-16-2010, 04:02 AM   #58
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RE: Oil Change Frequency

One key thought for cruisers is to have enough oil and filters on board for at least 3 oil changes.

Any bo bo in a wet exhaust or oil cooler can mean water in the crank case.

Immediate oil change is in order!!
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Old 12-16-2010, 09:57 AM   #59
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Oil Change Frequency

FF

3 oil changes?? That is like carrying a spare pair of shorts in your back pocket in anticipation of ----?



-- Edited by sunchaser on Thursday 16th of December 2010 10:57:59 AM
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Old 12-16-2010, 10:31 AM   #60
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RE: Oil Change Frequency

"That is like carrying a spare pair of shorts in your back pocket in anticipation of ----?"

You don't?
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