Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 08-17-2017, 07:23 PM   #21
Guru
 
angus99's Avatar
 
City: Signal Mtn., TN
Vessel Name: Stella Maris
Vessel Model: Defever 44
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,742
Yes, sorry, it's mechanical. I have the squeeze bulb and fittings but ran out of time and energy today. I will inject oil in tomorrow and watch the mechanical gauge when it fires up.

I do think some oil is getting moved around by the starter; just not enough to build significant pressure. As I noted above, when I took the mechanical gauge off this afternoon after cranking the starter, a small, steady steam of oil came out of the sensor port. That did not happen when I removed the sensor this morning and the only difference then was I hadn't cranked it.

Thanks.
angus99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2017, 07:34 PM   #22
Guru
 
City: kemah
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 1,135
The fact that it dribbled out some after cranking it over means the pump is beginning to prime.
what_barnacles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2017, 09:33 PM   #23
Guru
 
angus99's Avatar
 
City: Signal Mtn., TN
Vessel Name: Stella Maris
Vessel Model: Defever 44
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,742
Thanks to all who offered suggestions. I ran out of time this trip (well, that and a couple pitchers of pina coladas got in the way). Will inject oil and start the engines on my next visit to the boat.
angus99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2017, 02:38 AM   #24
Guru
 
Irish Rambler's Avatar
 
City: NARBONNE
Vessel Name: 'Snow Mouse.'
Vessel Model: BROOM FLYBRIDGE 42.
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 1,733
The first piece of advice is as XS Guru states K.I.S.S.
Have you started the engine ? Is there fuel at the injector ?
Sometimes an engine left idle will on start up 'miss' on an injector due to a sticky spring, these usually clear themselves after running.
Some gauges are mechanical and some are electric, electrical ones register immediately, mechanical ones do not, they need the oil pressure to build (remember after 2 yrs the oil will be cold and thick, therefore even slower).
The starter will not turn the engine over fast enough to build significant pressure and if you continue you will eventually burn out the starter.
If it were my boat I would turn the engine over on the starter for 5 seconds(to pre-lubricate the engine after lying idle) I would then rest the starter for 10 seconds.
Open the throttles wide open(obviously out of gear) and then fire the engine up, the moments it fires IMMEDIATELY reduce the throttle setting to a fast idle.
Watch the oil gauges for 2/3 minutes and register the pressure.
If no pressure close down the engine and investigate further.
NOTE Lehman predominantly used Ford engines and on some of the very early models there was a 'cold start' button on the fuel pump, it was located at the bottom of the fuel shut off lever. RTTM.
To engage the 'cold start' feature on these engines, open the throttle wide, push in the button, it will locate with an audible click, start the engine and once it fires IMMEDIATELY reduce the throttle to a fast idle.
Have courage, be methodical and learn.
Irish Rambler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2017, 03:26 AM   #25
Senior Member
 
TowLou's Avatar
 
City: North NJ
Vessel Name: Bassey
Vessel Model: 17' Bass
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 438
Did you run it after the oil change?

Maybe the oil filters are still filling up? Even pre filling the filter its tough to fill em all the way if they hang vertically.
TowLou is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2017, 07:29 AM   #26
Guru
 
angus99's Avatar
 
City: Signal Mtn., TN
Vessel Name: Stella Maris
Vessel Model: Defever 44
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,742
My engines have electrical gauges, but I removed the sender on one and tried a mechanical gauge. It didn't register pressure either while spinning the starter (I no longer expect to see pressure with the starter alone).

I did run the engines for about 4-5 hours after changing the oil last time, with no problems.

I'll be away from the boat for a couple weeks but the next time I'm there I'll force-lube the galleys and just start them while monitoring closely.

Thanks.
angus99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2017, 03:26 PM   #27
Senior Member
 
TowLou's Avatar
 
City: North NJ
Vessel Name: Bassey
Vessel Model: 17' Bass
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 438
If you did run the engines before then id not worry with oil pressure. Get them motors fired up one way or another if yoir boat is on the hard or in water. Dont rely on cranking them.
TowLou is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2017, 03:29 PM   #28
Senior Member
 
TowLou's Avatar
 
City: North NJ
Vessel Name: Bassey
Vessel Model: 17' Bass
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 438
Also if a mechanical guage dont you need a physical line filled with oil to run from your motor to the gauge.
TowLou is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2017, 05:27 PM   #29
Guru
 
angus99's Avatar
 
City: Signal Mtn., TN
Vessel Name: Stella Maris
Vessel Model: Defever 44
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,742
The mechanical gauge I used has a 3-4 ft hose and is easy to see from the lower helm when the hatch in the floor is removed.
angus99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2017, 11:22 AM   #30
Guru
 
diver dave's Avatar
 
City: Palm Coast, FL
Vessel Name: Coquina
Vessel Model: Lagoon 380
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 2,570
Quote:
Originally Posted by TowLou View Post
Also if a mechanical guage dont you need a physical line filled with oil to run from your motor to the gauge.
The gauge will be accurate with air in the line, since the fluid pressure in a static line is equal everwhere. The air will, however, cause some damping of any transients.
diver dave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2017, 11:31 AM   #31
Technical Guru
 
Ski in NC's Avatar
 
City: Wilmington, NC
Vessel Name: Louisa
Vessel Model: Custom Built 38
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 6,194
No problem with air in the sensing line. It will make the gauge respond slowly, sometimes very slowly. After firing up, watch the gauge closely. If needle lifts off the peg at all, pump is primed and it should continue to rise as the air in line compresses.
Ski in NC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2017, 01:03 PM   #32
Guru
 
catalinajack's Avatar
 
City: Edgewater, MD
Vessel Name: Catalina Jack
Vessel Model: Defever 44
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,585
Quote:
Originally Posted by TowLou View Post
If you did run the engines before then id not worry with oil pressure. Get them motors fired up one way or another if yoir boat is on the hard or in water. Dont rely on cranking them.
Way too much overthinking here, IMHO. The engines ran with oil pressure two years ago. There is no reason to believe that the pumps on BOTH engines have failed while not being used. Getting an oil pressure reading while simply cranking the engine is highly unlikely. Think about it. Oil pressure gauges, whether mechanical or electrical, do not read out until an engine has been running for 1, 2, maybe 3 seconds at, generally, around 900 RPM. To expect an pressure reading at the relatively few RPM that the starter spins an engine is illogical. That is also why the oil pressure warning buzzer takes a few seconds to stop buzzing.

Angus99, you already pre-oiled the engine, a lot. Your starters are not happy with you. As for the necessity of pre-oiling, I am very skeptical. When dino oil is in the crankcase, all engines, gas or diesel, are being started "dry" after sitting for relatively short periods of time, perhaps as little as one week because all of the lubricant drains away. Remember, the old axiom, 90% of engine wear occurs at start-up. It cannot be escaped. Start those engines and go boating. And, if you are really worried about dry starts, use synthetic oil which leaves a coating on surfaces that does not drain down into the sump, if you think it is worth the extra cost.
catalinajack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2017, 09:59 PM   #33
Senior Member
 
City: Subic Bay
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 194
If your engine has the external oil filters coupled by hoses, remove the in pressure hose to the filter and fill with a liter of oil to try and prime the pump, be very careful if you get it running and dont allow 2-3 minutes for the oil pressure to rise other wise you will be rebuilding as the cam shaft bearings and crank bearings will be toast even after 1 minute, here's a post below from the last guy that tried 1 minute with no oil pressure,

Just going through the same problem...My old 4 cyl Lehman.
I changed the oil cooler, filter and the filter bracket. Started it up and NO OIL PRESSURE...
I figured it was because the filter, oil cooler and the lines were empty so would need time to fill before I got any oil pressure readings.
I slackened the filter and there was plenty of oil, so I ran the engine for a minute at 1000 rpm waiting for the oil pressure to kick in....
Well guess what?
It didn’t kick in........
Now I have a main bearing job....Ship! Ship! Ship!
SO...
NO OIL PRESSURE... DO NOT RUN THE ENGINE...!
Hope this saves somebody a ship load of work!

Cheers Steve
CaptSteve53 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2017, 04:10 PM   #34
Guru
 
angus99's Avatar
 
City: Signal Mtn., TN
Vessel Name: Stella Maris
Vessel Model: Defever 44
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,742
Success (mostly)

Seems kind of superficial to be talking about boat issues with all-hell getting ready to be unleashed on Florida. I did want to thank everyone for their ideas. I removed about two quarts of oil from each crank case, injected a quart of fresh oil into each pressure switch port (using a cheap drum pump) and poured a quart into each valve cover filler.

Both engines started within two seconds and had good pressure in two to three seconds. no water leaks either!

Now I need to figure out why the starboard engine barely turns over on the house bank (1,250 amp hours and massive CCAs) but starts easily on the single Group 31 "start battery." And the port engine does exactly the opposite . . . cranking easily on the house bank and barely turning with the Group 31. I know for a fact all the connections and terminals are new and tight.
angus99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2017, 06:22 PM   #35
Senior Member
 
TowLou's Avatar
 
City: North NJ
Vessel Name: Bassey
Vessel Model: 17' Bass
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 438
Distance between banks and engines at all for cable length?
TowLou is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2017, 07:28 PM   #36
Guru
 
City: kemah
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 1,135
N.m.
what_barnacles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2017, 08:33 PM   #37
Guru
 
City: Melbourne, FL
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,731
Quote:
Originally Posted by angus99 View Post
Now I need to figure out why the starboard engine barely turns over on the house bank (1,250 amp hours and massive CCAs) but starts easily on the single Group 31 "start battery." And the port engine does exactly the opposite . . . cranking easily on the house bank and barely turning with the Group 31. I know for a fact all the connections and terminals are new and tight.
Put a clamp on ammeter on the starter cable and see how much power it's drawing. if the two starters draw similar power- amps, then take the starter to a rebuilder. Chances are one of the starter motor windings is open and not pulling it's weight.
stubones99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2017, 08:53 PM   #38
Guru
 
angus99's Avatar
 
City: Signal Mtn., TN
Vessel Name: Stella Maris
Vessel Model: Defever 44
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,742
Quote:
Originally Posted by TowLou View Post
Distance between banks and engines at all for cable length?
Distances are within about 6 ft of being equal. Cable is 2/0, new and sized for the distances. Nothing feels warm to the touch..

Quote:
Originally Posted by stubones99 View Post
Put a clamp on ammeter on the starter cable and see how much power it's drawing. if the two starters draw similar power- amps, then take the starter to a rebuilder. Chances are one of the starter motor windings is open and not pulling it's weight.
I guess that would have to be both starters since they both struggle to turn over, but on different battery banks.

Thank you both.
angus99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2017, 08:58 PM   #39
Guru
 
City: kemah
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 1,135
Ill change my n.m. to check for corrosion. Split the insulation and look at the wire. You can always paint it with liquid tape.
what_barnacles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2017, 09:08 PM   #40
Guru
 
angus99's Avatar
 
City: Signal Mtn., TN
Vessel Name: Stella Maris
Vessel Model: Defever 44
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,742
Quote:
Originally Posted by what_barnacles View Post
Ill change my n.m. to check for corrosion. Split the insulation and look at the wire. You can always paint it with liquid tape.
The wire is brand new.
angus99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Trawler Port Captains
Port Captains are TF volunteers who can serve as local guides or assist with local arrangements and information. Search below to locate Port Captains near your destination. To learn more about this program read here: TF Port Captain Program





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:41 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012