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Old 07-20-2011, 10:24 AM   #21
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RE: Next-Gen 5.5Kw Generator

I love how the marketing materials talk about features as if their product is the only one that has that feature.* This isn't a knock on NL generators, only a comment on their marketing text on their web page:

"The ideal 6kW generator set is small and lightweight. The M673L3 certainly qualifi es. But it stands apart through its remarkable long-life reliability. The reason? The M673L3 runs at 1800 rpm (1500 rpm for 50 Hz), instead of 3600 rpm."

My Westerbeke 5.5 runs at 1800 RPM.

"The M673L3 has a balanced Lugger three cylinder diesel instead of a rough two banger."

My Westerbeke has a 3 cylinder...

"A 30 amp AC circuit breaker in the junction box protects your wiring. Safety shutdowns for low oil pressure, high coolant temperature and high exhaust temperature protect your engine."

All standard stuff on most generators I'd say.

As stated earlier, my guess is that where NL really stands apart is their larger units.
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Old 07-20-2011, 11:01 AM   #22
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RE: Next-Gen 5.5Kw Generator

does anyone know how much energy is lost re-charging batts?
lets say you run a 1.2kw generator for 1 hour, you would produce 100 AHS, how much of the 100 AHS are retained in the batts?
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Old 07-20-2011, 01:06 PM   #23
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Next-Gen 5.5Kw Generator

how much of the 100 AHS are retained in the batts?

The rate at which a battery cam absorb a charge varies with the discharged state of the batt,

A low battery set can at the start absorb about 25% OF THE BATT capacity (20 hour rating), OR BATT BANK CaPACITY , if THE ALTERNATOR IS BIG ENOUGH.

*

Unfortunatly this only holds till the batt set is about 80% full, where it takes far longer to pump in thode amps.

*

AGM batts can be discharged further and recharged faster (sex mfg), but $200% or 300% more expensive is only for folks that REALLY hate the stench of the noisemaker.

*

The above info is only for an alt fitted with a "smart" V regulator.

The std auto/truck V regulastor is much slower* sy recharges from 50% dead,as it expects a 99% full bat when it comes on line.


-- Edited by FF on Wednesday 20th of July 2011 01:12:31 PM
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Old 07-20-2011, 01:14 PM   #24
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Next-Gen 5.5Kw Generator

Quote:
Per wrote:does anyone know how much energy is lost re-charging batts?
lets say you run a 1.2kw generator for 1 hour, you would produce 100 AHS, how much of the 100 AHS are retained in the batts?
The answer depends on how far down the batteries are at the beginning of the charge.

It also depends on if you really are asking how much can you get back out of the battery vs what the*generator*delivered to a battery charger. That figure is called overall system efficiency. Keep in mind that since the energy conversion in the generator itself is not considered, the real efficiency of converting fuel to DC power out of the battery is much lower than shown below.

If the depth of discharge is 80 percent you can expect about 64 percent

If the depth of discharge is 40 percent you can expect about*49 percent

If the depth of discharge is*20 percent you can expect about*36 percent

How far down do you take your battery and how efficient is your generator? It is probably less than 35 percent efficient so the*amount of energy that comes out of the battery compared to what goes into the into the generator*is pretty low.


-- Edited by RickB on Wednesday 20th of July 2011 01:17:08 PM
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Old 07-20-2011, 01:27 PM   #25
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RE: Next-Gen 5.5Kw Generator

BTW... To the OP. We have a Next Gen 3.5k. It gets the job done and is built to last, but it sounds like there is a commercial lawn mower in the bilge when I do, so running it overnight would be out. Otherwise, I like it. It's pretty small and easy to service.
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Old 07-20-2011, 04:19 PM   #26
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RE: Next-Gen 5.5Kw Generator

Quote:
RickB wrote:Per wrote:does anyone know how much energy is lost re-charging batts?
lets say you run a 1.2kw generator for 1 hour, you would produce 100 AHS, how much of the 100 AHS are retained in the batts?
The answer depends on how far down the batteries are at the beginning of the charge.

It also depends on if you really are asking how much can you get back out of the battery vs what the*generator*delivered to a battery charger. That figure is called overall system efficiency. Keep in mind that since the energy conversion in the generator itself is not considered, the real efficiency of converting fuel to DC power out of the battery is much lower than shown below.

If the depth of discharge is 80 percent you can expect about 64 percent

If the depth of discharge is 40 percent you can expect about*49 percent

If the depth of discharge is*20 percent you can expect about*36 percent

How far down do you take your battery and how efficient is your generator? It is probably less than 35 percent efficient so the*amount of energy that comes out of the battery compared to what goes into the into the generator*is pretty low.



-- Edited by RickB on Wednesday 20th of July 2011 01:17:08 PM

*you are on the righ track here.

i am considering a small portable gasoline genertor to substitue until i get a new or used gen set installed.

it puts out 1000 watts, i was wondering how long it takes to re-charge my 4 d's bank batts (compared to the genny at 3Kw).

would probably only use down around 50% on the batts, and or coordinate it to work out to a daily event so i need to calculate apprx how much energy we use on a typical day.

roughly it sounds like my 1000 watts is reduced to produce around 400-500 watts or* apprx 33 amps charged per hour of generator running.
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Old 07-20-2011, 04:30 PM   #27
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RE: Next-Gen 5.5Kw Generator

Quote:
FF wrote:
how much of the 100 AHS are retained in the batts?

The rate at which a battery cam absorb a charge varies with the discharged state of the batt,

A low battery set can at the start absorb about 25% OF THE BATT capacity (20 hour rating), OR BATT BANK CaPACITY , if THE ALTERNATOR IS BIG ENOUGH.

*

Unfortunatly this only holds till the batt set is about 80% full, where it takes far longer to pump in thode amps.

*

AGM batts can be discharged further and recharged faster (sex mfg), but $200% or 300% more expensive is only for folks that REALLY hate the stench of the noisemaker.

*

The above info is only for an alt fitted with a "smart" V regulator.

The std auto/truck V regulastor is much slower* sy recharges from 50% dead,as it expects a 99% full bat when it comes on line.



-- Edited by FF on Wednesday 20th of July 2011 01:12:31 PM
*thanks FF, I am not so woried about the last 20%. hope the solar panels can take on the trickle charge..

not sure which V reg is on my alternators, i will check it out. is that an easy re-fit with a smart V reg?
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Old 07-20-2011, 06:03 PM   #28
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RE: Next-Gen 5.5Kw Generator

Quote:
Per wrote:i am considering a small portable gasoline genertor to substitue until i get a new or used gen set installed.
*If you have some cash buring a hole in your pocket why not just buy a high output alternator and smart regulator and use that until you get a replacement generator. It seems like a waste of time and money to go through all those conversion losses if you don't really have a need for ac power.

Most of the power produced by a screaming little gas generator is going to be wasted by the time you get it back out of the batteries anyway. Set yourself up for rapid charging off the engine and use an inverter for the small ac loads that you do have. That way you won't make yourself and your family miserable with the noise and fumes.
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Old 07-21-2011, 04:37 AM   #29
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RE: Next-Gen 5.5Kw Generator

"that an easy re-fit with a smart V reg?"

IF your alt is one of the heavier duty models that has the V regulator mounted ON the alt , or wired to it , the change ofer is a minor deal.

IF the unit is an auto or light truck unit that has the V reg built in , much ungood.

Either a trip to a shop to open the alt and lead the field wire out , or a better external V reg alt is needed.

I would go to a HD truck parts store and ask what is on sale.

Frequently a brand new 135A lat will be under $150.

Its large frame so can handle the heat of producing 100A + for hours, many re wound car units like Balmars have poor output at high temperatures.
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Old 07-21-2011, 06:45 AM   #30
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RE: Next-Gen 5.5Kw Generator

FF

Is there a difference between an auto parts alt and a marine alt?
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Old 07-21-2011, 10:27 AM   #31
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RE: Next-Gen 5.5Kw Generator

is this alternator stuff generic, meaning it will mount on my 3208's belt drive regardless if truck or marine etc?

my alts are the ones with the V regulator mounted on it.

i like the idea Rick came up with, this way WHEN i do get the genset replaced, I still have the high output alt and money not wasted.

my batts are AGM 8 D's so should be able to charge fairly quick..
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Old 07-21-2011, 11:44 AM   #32
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RE: Next-Gen 5.5Kw Generator

There is a huge difference in marine and auto alts. I just read about it last week in Nigel Calder's book. Can't quote it now (I'm at work), but go look it up.
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Old 07-21-2011, 03:07 PM   #33
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RE: Next-Gen 5.5Kw Generator

i found this interesting load calculator, not sure how accurate it is but it provides a decent starting point.
http://www.boundlessoutfitters.com/B...ator-s/129.htm

also found a replacement for my alternator producing 90 or 105 AMPS, but it has an internal voltage regulator; is that ok?


do i really need a smart voltage regulator for alternator? whats on there now doesnt appear to be a smart regulator.
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Old 07-21-2011, 07:46 PM   #34
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RE: Next-Gen 5.5Kw Generator

best is a large frame alt as on a heavy duty truck cools much better , last longer, delivers more rated power
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Old 07-22-2011, 04:09 AM   #35
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RE: Next-Gen 5.5Kw Generator

Is there a difference between an auto parts alt and a marine alt?


YES! if your boat has gasoline engines aboard.

For a diesel basically NO.

However there are "marine" units that can be hosed down while operating , not usually in the budget for yacht use.
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Old 09-22-2011, 03:14 PM   #36
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RE: Next-Gen 5.5Kw Generator

Enola, looks like I hi-jacked your thread.. sorry.
How did it go, did you end up with the nextgen 5.5kw generator and if so, are you happy with it?
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Old 09-22-2011, 06:28 PM   #37
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RE: Next-Gen 5.5Kw Generator

Tom Wrote:

BTW... To the OP. We have a Next Gen 3.5k. It gets the job done and is built to last, but it sounds like there is a commercial lawn mower in the bilge when I do, so running it overnight would be out. Otherwise, I like it. It's pretty small and easy to service.
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Do you have the optional sound shield? I have been thinking of the Next-Gen 3.5. Thanks

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Old 09-23-2011, 03:41 AM   #38
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RE: Next-Gen 5.5Kw Generator

"do i really need a smart voltage regulator for alternator?"

You only need a smart V reg if you wish to recharge your house batt set in minimum tome.

If you live where Air Cond is required 6-12 hours a day it hardly matters, the noisemaker will do.

If you cruise short 2 -3 hour runs , the advantages of a smart V reg will work for you.

To optimise the short time charge a bigger alt heavy duty alt is usually also a big help.

If you are an all day runner style cruiser ,

short charge times are no big deal, BUT the 3 stage brain , rather than the auto V reg brain may have the batt set last longer.
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Old 07-20-2013, 02:41 PM   #39
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Nextgen installed in a Freedom 35 Sailboat

I have just install a 300lb. NextGen 5.5KW and it works great. I remove a 200lb Panda Gen 4.5KW and installed the the NextGen. Why did I pick the the NextGen well the Salt water cooled Panda was ate up with corrosion ran at 3600 RPM and only produced 4KW power, well maybe not even that. It didn't want to run my 2KW Air condition. The NextGen runs at 1800 RPM and is fresh water cooled. Once again it was also the size that I picked the NextGen. I would highly recommend the NextGen 5.5KW. Note also the Westerbeke 5KW wouldn't fit.
One more thing is the alternator for charging the battery is an option I use the AC charger for the battery.
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Old 07-20-2013, 04:40 PM   #40
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I had a NexGen 5.5. It ran at 2800 rpm using a cogged belt drive.
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