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Old 04-14-2012, 03:01 PM   #1
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Next Boat Engines

Under strong consideration as our next boat is the Tolly 43 built from 1980 to 1985. The engine options were Volvo, Cat 3208, Detroit Diesel 8.2L, and gas Mercruiser.
Based on the boats specs, what would you select for engines?

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Old 04-14-2012, 03:37 PM   #2
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Under strong consideration as our next boat is the Tolly 43 built from 1980 to 1985. The engine options were Volvo, Cat 3208, Detroit Diesel 8.2L, and gas Mercruiser.
Based on the boats specs, what would you select for engines?

Budd - First of all congrats on choosing Tollycraft; I feel one of the finest designed. laid out, and built production boat lines ever! There will be many recommendations for power train. Much has to do with how you expect to utilize your Tolly. PM me and Iíll help you connect with other Tolly owners who can usher you into the world of Tolly. Happy Tolly Daze! - Art
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Old 04-14-2012, 04:05 PM   #3
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From what I have read and experienced in non boating experience, it's hard to beat a CAT. All 3 diesels have their merits and detractors, I would choose any of them that surveyed well. Personally I would not choose gas at that size point.
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Old 04-14-2012, 05:10 PM   #4
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I have twin Cat 3208 naturals in my GB-42. My beam is 13' x 7"; similar to the Tolly 43 in your description. I've never had a problem with the engines. However, I perform regular maintenance and both engines have low hours.

My only comment would be that 3208s are V-8s and take up considerable space in the engine room. I'm 5' x 9" with a regular build (solid muscle, actually ) and can squeeze between the engines and hull. I still have room for a 19-gallon water heater, saltwater washdown pump, refrigeration pump/compressor, and diesel heater. Food for thought...
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Old 04-14-2012, 05:17 PM   #5
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I've been on several Tollys including the 43s, 44s and 48s. Great boats all with the 43 holding a special place for many. A fellow I know did a delivery up the west coast in a 43 and was quite happy with its performance in very big seas.

Avoid the 8.2 unless you like continual tinkering plus parts are getting hard to come by. Some years ago I looked seriously at a 43 with 210 NA Cat 3208s, the ideal engine for that vessel IMHO. Plus the 3208 parts and maintenance are still being offered by Cat, and likely will for a very long time.

Several older Tollys with 8.2s or gassers are now going through repower with Cummins or JDs being a good fit. Have you been on any 48s?
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Old 04-14-2012, 05:26 PM   #6
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Cats...they are still being supported by many companies and are still being rebuilt for a song.
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Old 04-14-2012, 08:03 PM   #7
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What model of Volvo's?
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Old 04-14-2012, 08:29 PM   #8
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I'd go with Cats as they support their older products unlike Volvo.
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Old 04-14-2012, 08:36 PM   #9
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Thanks for the comments. I'm hearing a lot of support for the 3208's. Sunchaser, I have not been on any 48's. I know they are great boats and look awesome! Conrad, I don't know what model of Volvos.
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Old 04-14-2012, 08:38 PM   #10
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Agree

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I'd go with Cats as they support their older products unlike Volvo.
Based on my experiance with Volvo and my wife's S80 T6 I will avoid Volvo in the future.
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Old 04-14-2012, 09:07 PM   #11
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Cats, 3208, simply because they are still well supported and there are mechanics around that are knowledgeable.
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Old 04-14-2012, 09:51 PM   #12
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The T6 isn't a marine application, so your wife's experience, though no doubt regretable, doesn't reflect the marine experience.
If the boat is older than 1990, it will likely have old technology, low pressure injection, so more smoke than 1990 and later technology. This applies whether it is Cat, Volvo or Detroit.
Boatdiesel.com will tell you all you need to know about each of the available engines. There you will get facts, not just opinions.
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Old 04-15-2012, 06:49 AM   #13
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Based on the boats specs, what would you select for engines?

Based on the numbers of hours the boat will actually be under her own power , would decide the engine selection.

200-300 hours a year Crusader gas would be only choice.

The many thousands in savings would cancel the 15% fuel burn penalty , as might the difference in fuel cost , gas being cheaper than diesel.

At 500 to 1000 hours a year , or a large need for the extended range diesel in the tank could offer , diesel would win.

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Old 04-15-2012, 09:38 AM   #14
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Based on the boats specs, what would you select for engines?

Based on the numbers of hours the boat will actually be under her own power , would decide the engine selection.

200-300 hours a year Crusader gas would be only choice.

The many thousands in savings would cancel the 15% fuel burn penalty , as might the difference in fuel cost , gas being cheaper than diesel.

At 500 to 1000 hours a year , or a large need for the extended range diesel in the tank could offer , diesel would win.

FF

I'm impressed!

I agree completely!

People have allot of misconceptions as to diesels, mainly being longevity in "high performance" applications.

Someties a good gas engine is a great choice!
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Old 04-15-2012, 10:14 AM   #15
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Budd, have you actually seen a gas 43? If I'm not mistaken, the Tolly 43s had few gas installs as compared to diesel. The 44 had many gas installs. For range in the PNW, diesel is a great choice. I'd vote with FF if a really clean 43 gasser could be found, IF! Repowering with a new Crusader would be a snap but once you got into it much more money would be spent than finding a good clean diesel. Your range with gas would be about 150 miles less per fillup. though. If the owner started using ethanol laced gas, be careful. Those 37 year old Tolly fuel fittings would be cooked.

Six years ago I looked at a 43 with Cat NA 210s that would have sold for about $165 - 180K in that good sellers market. During that search I looked at about 10 Tollys of various sizes and met with some of the original designers and builders. It was a lot of fun and impressed me greatly with Tollys overall.

Take a look at the 44s and 48s too. Once they entered they Tolly lineup the 43 halted production. But, you can find a good 43 diesel for much less money than a later model 48. The 43 gives up the lower dinette but instead has a very nice forward head arrangement in comparison to the 44 (45 in the later years) and 48, to me a plus. There are many pristine Tollys in the Portland area, most under cover in fresh water since new.
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Old 04-15-2012, 10:29 AM   #16
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Bud, Art,
Why do you chose Tollycraft over Uniflite? I know why I would. But I want to know why you do, would or will. A 42 Uniflite w twin Detroits would satisfy just about all of my lusts. Would need lots of sound insulation though but that's readily availible.
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Old 04-15-2012, 11:17 AM   #17
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Bud, Art,
Why do you chose Tollycraft over Uniflite? I know why I would. But I want to know why you do, would or will. A 42 Uniflite w twin Detroits would satisfy just about all of my lusts. Would need lots of sound insulation though but that's readily availible.
Eric

There are several detailed reasons why I already did chose Tollycraft over Uniflite. Too much to place in writting on this venue. I owned a Uni at same time as owning our Tolly and used both a lot. Bought the Uni second, sold it first. Do not plan to sell the Tolly, except to eventually move up from 34' tri cabin to a 43, 44, 45, or preferably a 48' Tolly tri for coastal cruising when retired. I can paraphrase my feeling in two words "Built Better" Although Uniflite is a very well built boat, Tollycraft is simply Built Better!
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Old 04-15-2012, 12:29 PM   #18
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Bud, Art,
Why do you chose Tollycraft over Uniflite? I know why I would. But I want to know why you do, would or will. A 42 Uniflite w twin Detroits would satisfy just about all of my lusts. Would need lots of sound insulation though but that's readily availible.
Friends of ours have a Uniflite 42 with DD's and you are correct manyboats, they need a lot more sound insulation then they have. They also have the typical Uniflite blister problems.

However, it it the particular layout of the 43 that is so attractive to me in addition to the quality build.
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Old 04-15-2012, 04:05 PM   #19
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Friends of ours have a Uniflite 42 with DD's and you are correct manyboats, they need a lot more sound insulation then they have. They also have the typical Uniflite blister problems.

However, it it the particular layout of the 43 that is so attractive to me in addition to the quality build.

Hey Budd

I won't get into all the pros and cons about how I feel regarding gas - vs - diesel in this post. I imagine you will hear from plenty as to why they recommend diesel and shun gas... and much of what they say is relevant, however take some of their diesel rhetoric with a grain of salt. Diesel is a good power alternative but it’s not always a Power God as some like to believe. Of course take some of what I say with Grain O' Salt too... I'm not an expert... just been around for a while and try to look at things as objectively as possible with a bit of my own experiences thrown in!

There are reasons for gas and reasons for diesel in boats even as big as a 43', 44', or 45' Tolly... any heavier/bigger and I feel gas is pretty much knocked out of the useful bandbox... due to prop sizes and fuel economy – diesel's elevated HP capabilities and torque are then required.

For our 34' Tolly tri cabin gas is perfect for two reasons (newer diesels (not pre 2000) would have been OK too, but when we purchased our Tolly at a great price she had a couple of low hour, professionally rebuilt by a renowned marine mechanic, 350 cid 255 hp engines in the finest condition). And, our 34’ Tolly is perfect for what we use her for:
1. We don’t do real long distance cruises (over 200 miles)
2. GM marineized gas engines are simple for me to personally work on, and, parts are plentiful/inexpensive, mechanics if required are way more plentiful and cost way less than diesel

One consideration for you to include is gas "fumes" can explode and kill with onboard explosions if not properly vented... Diesel is safe! That said, few gas explosions occur and happen only if a person is not careful.

Regarding fuel consumption:
- By cruising on either engine (alternating engine use) at 6.5 to 7 knots (hull speed calcs at 7.58) we get just below 3 kpg
- With both engines at same speed we get 2 kpg
- At 16 to 17 knots plane we get 1 kpg
- WOT at 22 + knots we use way too much gas per knot and put stress on drive train - - > but, we have the speed if required... I’ve needed it for short bursts only three times in years

Regarding noise level while cruising:
- Economically running boat at just below hull speed on one engine you can stand over the engine hatches and talk in a whisper... on the bridge you can barely hear the single engine
- Two engines running at that speed and you can talk in a loud whisper in main salon and on the bridge you can faintly hear the synchronization of engines at equal rpm... also have a sync box on bridge too
- Both engines pushing the Tolly at planning cruse 16-17 knots and you can still talk comfortably right over the motors in main salon.
- WOT at 22+ knots the 4 bbls kick in fully. Yahooo - Annie Get Your Gun! We B goen for a ride. Usually quite gassers are loudly humming with that money sucking, throaty 4 BBL ROAR!

Regarding gas engine hour duration if we really baby them because they they came to us in great condition:
- I figure 3 to 3.5 K hours out of these 350 cid before full replacement necessary. At the pace we use this Tolly that means many, many years of low cost and basically carefree engine usage/maintenance
- 454 cid big blocks may get a bit less hours – especially if they are often run at above 60 to 70% of their WOT rpm. Gassers like to loaf, unlike most diesels

Replacement cost for “one” brand-new-factory short block 350 cid gas engine (including lots of new riser and exhaust parts:
- About $5k installed by those I’d hire... I supply parts
- About $2.5 installed by me (454's would cost a bit more)

Replacement or remanufacture cost for “one” diesel
- MUCH $$$$$$$$!!! I’ll let the diesel experts here put a tag on that. I haven’t been in the marine diesel market for a loooong time. But, I’ve heard today's estimates from $15K to $25K per diesel
- Also, the diesel guys can expound on how many thousands of hours diesels run before collapse. Some do go many, many thousands of hours – some simply do not – and they still cost a fortune to repair/replace!
- Don’t forget gasoline per gallon is also usually cheaper than diesel and in more locations... but diesel is more stable over long periods in a tank... however. there are gas stabilizers... SOOOO Much to Dwell Upon!

I recommend you figure how you plan to use your 43’ Tolly and that should weigh in a bit on your acceptance of gas or diesel. In today’s market price has a lot to do with boat purchase. And very important is the care boat and drive train received under stewardship of PO.

In used craft their condition/integrity is not the only thing, but, it is the sum culmination of everything!

Best Luck! Budd
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Old 04-15-2012, 05:12 PM   #20
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new Boat Engines

Bud

Congratulations on your purchase. That's a BOAT!

Amongst the options you have given us, I'd go for Cat 3116 so you don't have to worry about size. But.....???

What happen with the good old Cummins - 6 BT?

Fernando
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