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Old 07-08-2013, 11:02 AM   #21
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Conventional propane tanks with liquid withdrawal valves will deliver liquid when upright. Other conventional tanks will deliver liquid when inverted or whatever covers the dip tube when on their side.

Conventional horizontal mounted tanks will deliver either liquid or vapor and may have a valve for each.

Conventional propane tanks like the disposable versions will deliver whatever is covering the withdrawl port.
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Old 07-08-2013, 11:37 AM   #22
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Conventional propane tanks with liquid withdrawal valves will deliver liquid when upright. Other conventional tanks will deliver liquid when inverted or whatever covers the dip tube when on their side.

Conventional horizontal mounted tanks will deliver either liquid or vapor and may have a valve for each.

Conventional propane tanks like the disposable versions will deliver whatever is covering the withdrawl port.
Now you're being Rick B.
My version of a "conventional" tank is the Blue Rhino tank for the barbeque. It is designed ONLY to deliver vapor. The safety relief valve on top should always be in vapor to function as designed.
Yes there are tanks designed for liquid and/or vapor dispensing. They are specialized tanks for a specialized purposes. They also have to be orientated so the safety relief valve is always in vapor. They typically have 'feet' or mounting brackets so that the relief valve is positioned properly.
I do not believe the the Luhr engine is designed to for a liquid propane. It may have a system to utilize coolant water to keep the VAPOR lines from frosting over in high VAPOR flow conditions but I don't think it has a true liquid to vapor vaporizer as larger propane engines do.
I'm not an expert on propane but I do work in the propane industry and am certified to (and do) rebuild and re-certify both liquid and vapor tanks.
Know what your engine is designed for. Know what your tank is designed for. Orientate the tank the way it was designed for. Keep the safety valve in the vapor as it was designed for.
Yes you can tip any tank to get liquid to come out the dip tube. Rick is correct and I stand corrected.
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Old 07-08-2013, 03:04 PM   #23
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I do not believe the the Luhr engine is designed to for a liquid propane. It may have a system to utilize coolant water to keep the VAPOR lines from frosting over in high VAPOR flow conditions but I don't think it has a true liquid to vapor vaporizer as larger propane engines do.
Sorry if it sounded like I was busting your chops, not intending to be mean.

Maybe HopCar can answer better but I see the 9.9 parts breakdown includes a coolant heated device called a "fuel line evaporator" so they must intend for some proportion of liquid to make it that far.

I wonder if anyone else will chime in from the colder regions and comment on this peculiarity of the engine.
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Old 07-08-2013, 04:14 PM   #24
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Maybe HopCar can answer better but I see the 9.9 parts breakdown includes a coolant heated device called a "fuel line evaporator" so they must intend for some proportion of liquid to make it that far.
I just looked at the 9.9 parts diagram and the "fuel line evaporator". It must installed as a preventative measure to keep liquid from the carburetor as they also show what they refer to as common "barbeque" tank hooked up to it in their web brochure. This would only deliver vapor in the real world. Tanks in rough water are going to slosh around....so dunno. I'm sure they've thought this out. Interesting to know if it would run off a properly installed 'liquid' tank.
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Old 07-08-2013, 08:38 PM   #25
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I spoke to an engineer at Lehr about the liquid vs vapor thing a few weeks ago. He said that all of their engines were happy with either. He did mention that the 9.9 might slow down after running at WOT for extended periods but that feeding it liquid propane would avoid that. That led to my thought that when they release a 15, it will need to be fed liquid. I guess you just can't push enough vapor through the typical propane connection hose. What size is the hose? 1/4" id maybe?

I'm building a small plywood skiff that I was planning to put a Lehr 9.9 on and I was just going to just turn my regular propane tank upside down to supply liquid to the engine. Anode your comments about the relief valve have me rethinking this. Anode you understand the application, could an upside down tank be a problem for me?

My boat keeps getting heavier so I might need to go to a 15!
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Old 07-08-2013, 08:51 PM   #26
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My boat keeps getting heavier so I might need to go to a 15!
Stitch & glue, huh? I built one 4 years ago with my 6 year old grandson.
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Old 07-08-2013, 09:00 PM   #27
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Walt that's beautiful! I didn't bother to tape the fillets on mine, yours are much neater. That dagger board trunk looks like a nice piece of wood working.
Mine's from Glen-L plans, their 14 foot skiff. What is yours? What does she look like under sail?
I detect some thread drift. Maybe the Mods should split this thread?
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Old 07-08-2013, 09:08 PM   #28
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Mine's from Glen-L plans, their 14 foot skiff. What is yours? What does she look like under sail?
Mine is a Union Bay Skiff designed and kitted by a Seattle NA. (We didn't do any of the wood working ourselves, we just took the pieces out of the box and put the boat together (4 days) she is ten feet long, rows like a dream and sails poorly.
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Old 07-08-2013, 09:33 PM   #29
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Very nice job! That must have been a really fun project to share with your grandson.
Is there going to be a next one?
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Old 07-08-2013, 10:09 PM   #30
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Very nice job! That must have been a really fun project to share with your grandson.
Is there going to be a next one?
No more boat building but he is an avid fisherman and enjoys helming my trawler.
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Old 07-08-2013, 11:14 PM   #31
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The next generation of boater! Good.
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Old 07-09-2013, 08:13 AM   #32
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I was planning to put a Lehr 9.9 on and I was just going to just turn my regular propane tank upside down to supply liquid to the engine. Anode your comments about the relief valve have me rethinking this. Anode you understand the application, could an upside down tank be a problem for me?
Back on topic ...

I am not a "propane expert" but the reason the propane people say the relief valve should be above the liquid level is that in the extremely unlikely event that pressure in the tank increases to the point that it opens (which will be the same pressure no matter what is covering it) it will vent gas.

If it vents liquid, the amount of flammable gas will be nearly 270 times the volume than if it were just gas. If the tank got hot enough to vent because your boat is on fire, it could be a problem.

If that scenario is a big concern, get one of the horizontal tanks with a liquid take-off. Forklift tanks might be the best option.
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Old 07-09-2013, 10:34 AM   #33
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Rick, I think fire on a small open boat is pretty unlikely but the tank will be sitting in the sun. I wonder if that could raise the pressure enough to open the valve? Forklift tanks are bigger than what I was hoping to use but might be a good option.
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Old 07-09-2013, 11:20 AM   #34
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On a gasoline engine liquid fuel comes from the tank and gets vaporized in the engine. On a propane engine liquid propane comes from the tank and gets vaporized by the vaporizer/evaporator. Then only the vaporized propane goes to the engine.

A full P tank weighs a lot. Empty tanks weigh little. Where does the liquid propane go? To the vaporizer and then (as vapor) into the engine via the throttle valve. The vaporizer dosn't pass liquid propane.

That's why propane engines run perfect when cold. The fuel is already vaporized when it gets to the engine.

I believe tanks are designed to pass only liquid propane and need to be oriented to do that. I don't think the air in the P tank is vaporized propane ... probably just stinky air.

Not going to court w any of the above but I think that's basically the way it is.

Hop Car your boat looks great. I'm still think'in of building this;
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Old 07-09-2013, 12:17 PM   #35
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Hi Eric, That looks like a fun project. I see boats like that used to catch mullet on the west coast of Florida. I'll need to spend more time on that website. They have some nice designs.

Some tanks are designed to supply liquid propane others vapor. It just depends on where the pickup tube is. If it's at the top of the tank you get vapor, at the bottom you get liquid. The typical 20 pound barbeque tank will supply propane gas unless you turn it upside down. Then it will supply liquid propane. Rick and Anode have pointed out the safety issues with turning the tank up side down.
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Old 07-09-2013, 12:18 PM   #36
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Rick, I think fire on a small open boat is pretty unlikely but the tank will be sitting in the sun. I wonder if that could raise the pressure enough to open the valve?
The tank will have to get close to140F to open the relief. How likely is that?

Look around, I think they make liquid withdrawal valves that fit #20 bottles ... not positive though.

I think it is much ado about nothing really.
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Old 07-09-2013, 12:24 PM   #37
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Rick, I think fire on a small open boat is pretty unlikely but the tank will be sitting in the sun. I wonder if that could raise the pressure enough to open the valve? Forklift tanks are bigger than what I was hoping to use but might be a good option.
Rick has the correct solution.
If you turn a barbeque tank upside down the safety relief valve is in the liquid and non-functional as designed. A tank in the Miami sun has the potential to rupture rather than vent the excess pressure if the safety valve is compromised.
Most forklift tanks weigh around 55# full (tank and propane). They do make smaller horizontal liquid tanks for floor polishers etc.
Check the Worthington site. Worthington Cylinders - Products
Remember that liquid propane boils around -42F. Wear the proper PPE when handling.
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Old 07-09-2013, 12:34 PM   #38
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Minimum burst pressure for a #20 tank is 960psig. Do the math in the hot Miami Sun.
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Old 07-09-2013, 07:39 PM   #39
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This is getting complicated. I think I'll just run the engine on vapor. The Worthington tank site says that liquid feed tanks have different threads than vapor feed tanks.
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Old 07-09-2013, 07:48 PM   #40
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This is getting complicated. I think I'll just run the engine on vapor. The Worthington tank site says that liquid feed tanks have different threads than vapor feed tanks.


No biggie:

OPD ACME Filling Adapter

And this:

Forklift Coupler Attachment
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