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Old 02-12-2013, 09:14 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by sunchaser View Post
My Hurth reverse gears use ATF, per the book. The biggest transmissions I have been around were in Cat mine haul trucks - 30 wt motor oil for the transmissons in that case. As Delfin says, check your book since marine gear designs are not all the same.
My present boat also uses ATF in its Hurth transmission. Over the years, though, I had 3 other boats that used SAE 30wt in their Twin Disc transmissions. When I see a blanket statement such as: "Engine lube oil in a gear box is not good", I really get upset! There are other statements made on this Forum, if taken seriously, will get the owner in deep s--t. I think it's fine to state one's "opinion" but to make a comment that comes across as a statement of fact is reckless at best.
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Old 02-12-2013, 09:32 AM   #22
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"Engine lube oil in a gear box is not good."
My manual calls for the same oil in the transmission as in the engine. How can you make a blanket statement that "Engine lube oil in a gear box is not good"?

Who knows more about it, you or the manufacturer?
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Old 02-12-2013, 10:08 AM   #23
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The manufacturer specifies engine oil. The question was, there is a reference from the PO that he used synthetic oil in the transmission. If he did, I would continue using synthetic, otherwise I would use the same oil that I use for the engine, Rotella 15W-40. Is there a simple way to determine if the transmissions contain synthetic or real oil?

Since it is virtually impossible to drain all the oil, I don't want to end up mixing synthetic and real oil.

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Old 02-12-2013, 10:08 AM   #24
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My present boat also uses ATF in its Hurth transmission. Over the years, though, I had 3 other boats that used SAE 30wt in their Twin Disc transmissions. When I see a blanket statement such as: "Engine lube oil in a gear box is not good", I really get upset! There are other statements made on this Forum, if taken seriously, will get the owner in deep s--t. I think it's fine to state one's "opinion" but to make a comment that comes across as a statement of fact is reckless at best.
So true. Some Paragons use motor oil. There are some transmissions set up to use the engine oil as their lube. If I remember correctly an Atomic four uses the same oil for both Transmission and engine. In fact the same pan on the Atomic four. http://pearsonvanguard.homestead.com/files/atomic4d.jpg
Other Paragons and Walters use 30 wt as well. After the 200 series the transmissions used ATF.
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Old 02-12-2013, 10:22 AM   #25
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From the PRM Newage Web site:



PRM Marine Ltd

Q: What Oil does my gearbox take?

A: A mechanical unit must use ATF Dextron II or III and a Hydraulic unit must use 15W40
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Old 02-12-2013, 11:12 AM   #26
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Since it is virtually impossible to drain all the oil, I don't want to end up mixing synthetic and real oil. Bob
The "by the book" way to do the change over is add a quart (gallon for big gear boxes) of new stuff and pump it out too. Repeat once or twice and you're good to go. This works for engines, gear boxes, pump and fan drives etc.

I do this on my engines where about 1/2 gallon of dirty oil cannot be pumped out due to engine's backward tilt. The oil stays a lot cleaner when I flush with 1/2 gallon of fresh oil, visually anyway - I feel better - not sure if engine does though.
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Old 02-12-2013, 11:14 AM   #27
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From the PRM Newage Web site:



PRM Marine Ltd

Q: What Oil does my gearbox take?

A: A mechanical unit must use ATF Dextron II or III and a Hydraulic unit must use 15W40
Maybe with their company but not with all. The defining factor with some is if the transmission has a pressure pump or not. Pressure pump ATF non pressure pump Engine oil. The old Paragons used the linkage to engage the clutch pack so they had no pressure pump but the newer ones in most transmissions use a pressure pump and the linkage is like on a car it just selects various valve positions to engage the proper clutch packs.

I went to their site and for what they call mechanical they want ATF and it says so in their transmission literature, under oil cooling but for their Hydraulic (with pressure pump) it says in their literature under cooling nothing about type. A bit confusing.
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Old 02-12-2013, 12:18 PM   #28
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Ron,

The expression "tranny" is hot rod slang and has no maritime implications. I consider those who use the word tranny as only loosely connected (if at all) to marine mechanics.
So sorry to have offended. I guess I'll just have to crawl back under my rock and stick to car forums. And here I've been trying so hard to fit in saying port and starboard instead of left and right, or is it right and left. I guess you can't turn an old gearhead into a proper boater.

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Old 02-12-2013, 12:23 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Larry M View Post
From the PRM Newage Web site:



PRM Marine Ltd

Q: What Oil does my gearbox take?

A: A mechanical unit must use ATF Dextron II or III and a Hydraulic unit must use 15W40
Thanks for that site. I downloaded some specs for the gearbox on our boat and it definitely specifies engine oil. I guess the key is "mechanical". I'll have to investigate further, I had not found the PRM Marine site.

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Old 02-12-2013, 12:33 PM   #30
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Ron,
The expression "tranny" is hot rod slang and has no maritime implications. I consider those who use the word tranny as only loosely connected (if at all) to marine mechanics.
Your being a little harsh here aren't you? Hell most folks here are only loosely connected period.

Now don't tell me you have produced a video we should all see.
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Old 02-12-2013, 01:03 PM   #31
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Ron,

The reason they are called reverse gears is that early gear boxes were mostly direct drive and the basic reason for them was the reverse gear. Later those that were were called reduction gears. I'm guessing at the time frame but prop ably in the 30s to the early 50s the boat gear boxes were called reverse gears. They were usually shifted directly by a lever connected to the gear box.

The expression "tranny" is hot rod slang and has no maritime implications. I consider those who use the word tranny as only loosely connected (if at all) to marine mechanics.
Gee whiz Eric, I respectfully submit the following: Your phrase "maritime implications" poses the implication that TF is filled with just life-long mariners whose life is dependent upon the sea and nothing more. When actually most are simply pleasure boaters who indulge on other life activities too. Calling boat’s "transmission" a reverse gear, trany, trans, trannie, gearbox or any other nomenclature is really not the point of this thread... the different names used by different boaters all refer to the similar mechanical device. Figuring what fluid is actually the correct ones to place inside any of our various brand and model "gear boxes" is.
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Old 02-12-2013, 02:03 PM   #32
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And here I've been trying so hard to fit in saying port and starboard instead of left and right, or is it right and left. I guess you can't turn an old gearhead into a proper boater.

Bob

Don't worry about the port and starboard bit. REAL boats (ships) use left and right. It's only the toy boat crowd that sticks to the yachty talk.

We use left and right on our boat for giving directions, heading changes, pointing out stuff in the water, etc.. The only time we use "port" and "starboard" is when we are referring to a physical location on the boat, because it's clear what side of the boat it's on no matter whether you're facing forward, aft, or sideways.
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Old 02-12-2013, 04:28 PM   #33
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Old 02-12-2013, 05:53 PM   #34
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FF is NOT the poster that said "engine lube oil in a gear box is not good"
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Old 02-12-2013, 06:21 PM   #35
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"FF is NOT the poster that said "engine lube oil in a gear box is not good""

I said that.

OK guys I've been out of line to be sure.


1. There are additives in "hypoid" and ATF oils to combat the extreme gear on gear pressures generated w gears and lots of torque. And I think some gear oils have sulfur in the oil as an additive especially for the gear applications. I knew some recommended engine oil as a temporary substitute but I didn't know they were recommending it's regular use. My ignorance and my bad. I'm sorry. Now that I think of it I think in my last boat powered w a Yanmar it's engine oil was recommended for the gear box.

2. Actually "tranny" is slang in the car world ... it's just plain slang. But I didn't mean to offend at all. I'm sorry.
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Old 02-12-2013, 08:27 PM   #36
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My Borg Warner tranny manual says that the preferred fluid is ATF, but straight 30W oil is fine too. That's what the PO used for, oh, 4000 hrs and it seemed to work fine. When I was doing a major refit, I had the tranny rebuilt as PM and have used ATF ever since.
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Old 02-12-2013, 10:15 PM   #37
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I was the original poster and I think the thread has gotten off track. Maybe my original post was not clear enough. I know what the manufacturer recommends, multi viscosity engine oil. Somwhere in the PO's documents was a comment about using Rotella Synthetic in the transmissions and I was wondering if there is an easy way to determine if the oil in the transmissions is synthetic or not.

Sure takes me a lot longer to hunt and peck "transmission".

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Old 02-12-2013, 10:42 PM   #38
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Ask any tranny guy. There is no better place to use synthetic then a tranny. Synthetics strongest suit is it's ability to handle heat. Heat is often the primary reason for tranny failure. If your tranny calls for single weight you can order it in synthetic. Amzoil for one carries it albeit at a price!!
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Old 02-12-2013, 10:43 PM   #39
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I was the original poster and I think the thread has gotten off track. Maybe my original post was not clear enough. I know what the manufacturer recommends, multi viscosity engine oil. Somwhere in the PO's documents was a comment about using Rotella Synthetic in the transmissions and I was wondering if there is an easy way to determine if the oil in the transmissions is synthetic or not.

Sure takes me a lot longer to hunt and peck "transmission".

Bob
Drain it all out and put in what you want. It doesn't matter what was there before.
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Old 02-12-2013, 11:40 PM   #40
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I was the original poster and I think the thread has gotten off track. Maybe my original post was not clear enough. I know what the manufacturer recommends, multi viscosity engine oil. Somwhere in the PO's documents was a comment about using Rotella Synthetic in the transmissions and I was wondering if there is an easy way to determine if the oil in the transmissions is synthetic or not.

Sure takes me a lot longer to hunt and peck "transmission".

Bob
I don't know of an easy way to tell whether it is synthetic or not, but if the mgr says multi grade, I'd just drain what's there and replace it with T6. Just curious, but do you have a transmission oil cooler?
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