Mystery Oil

[Lou_tribal]

MSDS sheets for additive products can be very revealing. Often they are almost entirely a "filler" product. Sometimes there is also a tiny fraction of a percent "magic goo".

They have new names for MSDS sheets now. A simple search will find them.

Rudolph Diesel reportedly set out to invent an engine that would burn agricultural waste products as fuel. He did, but I think the myths are far larger than the reality. An engine expected to run for thousands of hours needs clean air, oil and fuel. Keep it clean. OT: Keep your blood clean too.

What about engine like Hercules engines designed to run on everything available in the field? These so called multifuel engines were made to run on anything that can be burned, from diesel, gasoline, vegetable oil, used engine oil and so on. Read about guys who ran them with old tranny oil even if the smell was weird

L

 

[Boat]

What about engine like Hercules engines designed to run on everything available in the field? These so called multifuel engines were made to run on anything that can be burned, from diesel, gasoline, vegetable oil, used engine oil and so on. Read about guys who ran them with old tranny oil even if the smell was weird

L

It is a mind boggling idea. I've heard of them but never had experience with them.

I have seen Mercedes diesel engines run on a variety of alternate fuels and there has been a lot of time dedicated to making it work.

This links to a forum for discussion of running a diesel on vegetable oil. They are primarily a biodiesel forum but have sub-forums for other fuels as well.

Biodiesel & SVO Discussion forum Home


I suspect the old Ford tractor motor could chug along on veg oil.

 

[Lou_tribal]

It is a mind boggling idea. I've heard of them but never had experience with them.

I have seen Mercedes diesel engines run on a variety of alternate fuels and there has been a lot of time dedicated to making it work.

This links to a forum for discussion of running a diesel on vegetable oil. They are primarily a biodiesel forum but have sub-forums for other fuels as well.

Biodiesel & SVO Discussion forum Home


I suspect the old Ford tractor motor could chug along on veg oil.

And it is not a new concept, M35 army trucks were powered by these multifuel engines 60+ years ago!
From wikipedia:

Multifuel engines are designed to operate reliably on a wide variety of fuels, including diesel fuel, jet fuel, kerosene, heating oil or gasoline. Gasoline may be used only in an emergency because it does not properly lubricate the injector pump. While using gasoline, common practice calls for the addition of at least 1 U.S. quart of clean motor oil per 15 U.S. gallons of gasoline (1*imp*qt/13*imp*gal; 1 L/60 L) for proper pump lubrication where available.

L

 

[Lepke]

Marvel oil got it's start in gas engines, partially because of the poor lube qualities of gas. It was thought by many that it helped lube valve guides and rings. From what I can see, it gums up gas engine rings.
You'd be better off with a real lube product, tested and known to help. I use Archoil AR9100. If you test your oil, it can double oil change intervals. If you read my posts, you'll see I like their products. It's because they work. Using the oil and fuel treatments also has given me a 6-10% better mileage with my Detroit mains. And so far about 400,000 miles on my ford diesel pu with no new injectors or other fuel/oil parts.

 

[gaston]

Marvel oil got it's start in gas engines, partially because of the poor lube qualities of gas. It was thought by many that it helped lube valve guides and rings. From what I can see, it gums up gas engine rings.
You'd be better off with a real lube product, tested and known to help. I use Archoil AR9100. If you test your oil, it can double oil change intervals. If you read my posts, you'll see I like their products. It's because they work. Using the oil and fuel treatments also has given me a 6-10% better mileage with my Detroit mains. And so far about 400,000 miles on my ford diesel pu with no new injectors or other fuel/oil parts.

 

[High Wire]

This thread is like the Walking Dead. It just won’t die.

 

[Art]

Marvel oil got it's start in gas engines, partially because of the poor lube qualities of gas. It was thought by many that it helped lube valve guides and rings. From what I can see, it gums up gas engine rings.
You'd be better off with a real lube product, tested and known to help. I use Archoil AR9100. If you test your oil, it can double oil change intervals. If you read my posts, you'll see I like their products. It's because they work. Using the oil and fuel treatments also has given me a 6-10% better mileage with my Detroit mains. And so far about 400,000 miles on my ford diesel pu with no new injectors or other fuel/oil parts.

Hi Lepke

I respect your input and read Archoil AR9100 link you provided; also watched a few video on that barrier lube fluid.

Have been using ZDDP 4oz. zinc additive with each oil change on my classic engines not having cat converters. Zinc clogs cat converters. AR9100 evidentially does not clog the converters. Also, I feel need to add a second 4oz ZDDP at 1/2 way between oil changes because zinc barrier film dissipates during use. Archoil AR9100 evidently does not dissipate.

I'm going to do more research on Archoil AR9100. Hope to use it in newer engines with cat converters. May also use it in classic flat tappet engines I own. Wonder how well Archoil AR9100 and ZDDP work together in older gasoline engines.

Any thoughts you may like to provide are appreciated.

 

[Art]

This thread is like the Walking Dead. It just won’t die.

Taint notten dead bout an engine liven longer due to good barrier lubes!

 

[gaston]

Admin. Please move this thread to : Sub-Forums:

• 
  Off The Deep End

 

[Art]

Admin. Please move this thread to : Sub-Forums:

• 
  Off The Deep End

Hope that is a just kidding joke.

Nothing wrong with a robust discussion regarding lubricants - Is there??

 

[PMF1984]

Ok, so it should be settled by now the answer is “no.”

But for an old gas engine, say a Palmer, folks would add MMO, they’d call it “top oil,” because the internal oil circulation was poor. Sort of a splash system.

If you have a Farmall Cub, I would recommend it.

 

[foggysail]

Mystery Oil.......yup, a real mystery, appropriately named. Reminds me of Andy Granitelli who once bragged in a tv commercial that his 500 win was because he had more STP in his engine than others. How do you say 'snake oil?'

 

[foggysail]

Marin,
Not going to quote your post but I'm quite sure you discovered STP works. Every time you used it your engine knocked. If you do it three times it's scientifically valid. But I'm sure the knocking was combustion .. not mechanical .. as FF suggested.

Funny you should mention Castrol 20W50. The guy I bought the little car from was the original owner (his wife) and she/he used Castrol 10W30 for 270K miles. They took it to a garage for all (every 3000) oil changes and the garage put in "Risoline" .. an additive that is essentially SeaFoam. Extremely high detergent. As soon as I switched to 20W50 (w/o the Risoline) my clutch stopped slipping. The rear main seal was probably worn out and oil was leaking onto the clutch. With the 20W50 oil the leaking stopped or slowed enough to allow the clutch to start working again most of the time. Lucky me.

Am I equating the mechanic for my Nissan to Bob Smith? Definitely. Neither engine or engines need or needed the additives and in one case WAY down the road (literally) a problem occurred from using the additive.

But my point is that mechanics are great and we should pay them well for what they do but they are not engineers. Their knowledge is limited and their exposure to science is usually much more limited so it's not uncommon for subjective advice to come from mechanics at times. But I usually listen to them closely but also usually question what they say. Lots of things mechanics said in the past has been thorally debunked now.

 

[T210DRVR]

MMO is comprised of mostly mineral spirits and perfume. I can see where is may help keep the fuel system clean but it does nothing to improve the lubricity of the oil. There are a few additives designed to improve certain characteristics of the oil. A product called CamGuard is very effective in inhibiting corrosion within the engine. Corrosion kills infrequently used engines. Older oils have better antiwear performance because they had significant quantities of metalic additives that improved lubricity. Modern diesel oils are formulated without these beneficial additives because these compounds kill late model emission systems. They can be found as additives and are a worthwhile addition to modern diesel oil.

The most important thing is to change your oil at least once a year or every 100 hours, whichever occurs first.

 

[Marshmallow]

I have not used MMO in marine diesel engines, but I have used it in airplane engines. I ran about 2000 gallons through my engine one month and the engine started to run better, then I stopped, and the engine ran even better. The main reason is that the MMO cleans the intake valve stem, and helps the exhaust valve stem also by removing build up. Once the build up is cleaned and you notice a performance increase, you can cut back on the MMO. On a clean engine, it will give you a slight performance decrease. Very slight. Engine re-builders swear by it as it keeps the engine clean and I have seen proof from my engine rebuilder.

I never put MMO in my engine oil, as we changed that all the time. If you want to put anything in engine oil, I would use CamGuard. I have talked to the inventor, and he easily convinced me to use his product if your oil changes are a long time apart. If you change your oil every 3 months or so, then just oil is fine.

Peace to all.

 

[Baker]

MMO is comprised of mostly mineral spirits and perfume. I can see where is may help keep the fuel system clean but it does nothing to improve the lubricity of the oil. There are a few additives designed to improve certain characteristics of the oil. A product called CamGuard is very effective in inhibiting corrosion within the engine. Corrosion kills infrequently used engines. Older oils have better antiwear performance because they had significant quantities of metalic additives that improved lubricity. Modern diesel oils are formulated without these beneficial additives because these compounds kill late model emission systems. They can be found as additives and are a worthwhile addition to modern diesel oil.

The most important thing is to change your oil at least once a year or every 100 hours, whichever occurs first.

A bold first post! What is your expertise??? And there are many people that use different types of oils that do oil analyses and keep their oil for MUCH longer than 100 hours!

 

[Art]

For gasoline engines [especially classic gassers with flat tappet lifters] and for diesel engines I recommend 4 oz. ZDDP with each oil change and another 4 oz. between changes. Great barrier coating. Do not use ZDDP where catalytic converters are in exhaust

ZDDP:

I also recommend added to gasoline...

Berrymans B-13:

Or, Seafoam:

Additionally, For keeping fuel clean and critter free with no water I recommend added to gasoline or diesel...

Soltron:

All items to be added during correct schedules and in the right amounts.

Merry Christmas!!

Happy "Additive" Daze! - Art

 

[gaston]

For gasoline engines [especially classic gassers with flat tappet lifters] and for diesel engines I recommend 4 oz. ZDDP with each oil change and another 4 oz. between changes. Great barrier coating. Do not use ZDDP where catalytic converters are in exhaust

ZDDP:

I also recommend added to gasoline...

Berrymans B-13:

Or, Seafoam:

Additionally, For keeping fuel clean and critter free with no water I recommend added to gasoline or diesel...

Soltron:

All items to be added during correct schedules and in the right amounts.

Merry Christmas!!

Happy "Additive" Daze! - Art

WOW. its on youtube it must be true

 

[boomerang]

A bold first post! What is your expertise??? And there are many people that use different types of oils that do oil analyses and keep their oil for MUCH longer than 100 hours!

That was rude. On Christmas day, no less.
Information is information & I'll readily listen to all of it. Being a "GURU" on here doesn't necessarily make one's posts accurate, that's for sure.

 

[psneeld]

It was only rude if taken personally.

Flat out statements without personal qualifications known are often challenged unless linked to a supporting source.

One or two lines in a post show little "tome" so deciding one is freindly or rude is just a guess.

 

[Art]

WOW. its on youtube it must be true

A lot more chance in this 21st Century of locating somewhat verifiable truths from youtube video's than from our mid 20th Century yesteryear upbringing when we relied on old salts who were relying on their early 1900's word of mouth experiences... ya know... back when most of us were first cutten our teeth on marine know-how!

Kidding aside: I've been using those items [additives] with good results for decades on two of them and well over a decade on the other two [ZDDP and Soltron].

That said; I never put much stock in Marvel Mystery Oil; often spoken of in this thread. MMO may work OK, and I have used it a couple times over the decades, just never saw any worthwhile results; such as I do experience from the four items [additives] I listed on post # 107

 

[ronlord]

Slightly off topic, but relevant. My 2 stroke 70hp Johnson on my FL boat had a gummed up carb that prevented the boat from going up on plane. Per a youtube video (what else!) I ran a pint of seafoam mixed into one gallon of pre-mix gas through the engine. It worked as stated in the video, the boat now runs as it should with no further maintenance on it.

No comment on MMO as I have no experience with that.

 

[bayview]

The big mystery of MMO is how they continue to convince people to buy it.

 

[Art]

Slightly off topic, but relevant. My 2 stroke 70hp Johnson on my FL boat had a gummed up carb that prevented the boat from going up on plane. Per a youtube video (what else!) I ran a pint of seafoam mixed into one gallon of pre-mix gas through the engine. It worked as stated in the video, the boat now runs as it should with no further maintenance on it.

No comment on MMO as I have no experience with that.

Right on - Ron! Similar to experiences I've enjoyed.

Seafoam and Berrymans B-13 offer same type results. Be careful with amount of the B-13 though... it is considerably more caustic than Seafoam.

I often [about every 3rd 6 gal tank full] add a couple ounces B-13 for our tow behind runabout's 50 hp Johnson. She always runs like a clock... not too shabby for a 1975 ob!

 

[Art]

The big mystery of MMO is how they continue to convince people to buy it.

Same mystery on how politicians continue to convince people to buy them!

Maybe it's a "slippery" conspiracy between MMO and Big Gov!

 

[T210DRVR]

I have not used MMO in marine diesel engines, but I have used it in airplane engines. I ran about 2000 gallons through my engine one month and the engine started to run better, then I stopped, and the engine ran even better. The main reason is that the MMO cleans the intake valve stem, and helps the exhaust valve stem also by removing build up. Once the build up is cleaned and you notice a performance increase, you can cut back on the MMO. On a clean engine, it will give you a slight performance decrease. Very slight. Engine re-builders swear by it as it keeps the engine clean and I have seen proof from my engine rebuilder.

I never put MMO in my engine oil, as we changed that all the time. If you want to put anything in engine oil, I would use CamGuard. I have talked to the inventor, and he easily convinced me to use his product if your oil changes are a long time apart. If you change your oil every 3 months or so, then just oil is fine.

Peace to all.

I agree with you. I've also discusses Camguard with Ed Kollen. He's a sharp guy. My experience with Camguard has also been in aircraft engines and I believe that it works well.

Marine engines share some of the same operating issues as aircraft engines. They are generally run infrequently with long periods between use. They are also called upon to run hard for long periods of time. Both issues make regular maintenance critical to the long life of an engine.

I'm presently shopping for a trawler and can't seem to shake the need for a second engine. I had an aircraft engine suffer catastrophic failure in flight and the outcome would have better if I had a second engine. I did walk away from the event so I'm grateful for that. The marine environment can be very unforgiving and loss of propulsion in poor weather can be a very bad thing.

 

[Baker]

It was only rude if taken personally.

Flat out statements without personal qualifications known are often challenged unless linked to a supporting source.

One or two lines in a post show little "tome" so deciding one is freindly or rude is just a guess.

Thank you sir!!! Perfectly stated! I wasn't trying to be rude(it comes naturally.. )

 

[Art]

I agree with you. I've also discusses Camguard with Ed Kollen. He's a sharp guy. My experience with Camguard has also been in aircraft engines and I believe that it works well.

Marine engines share some of the same operating issues as aircraft engines. They are generally run infrequently with long periods between use. They are also called upon to run hard for long periods of time. Both issues make regular maintenance critical to the long life of an engine.

I'm presently shopping for a trawler and can't seem to shake the need for a second engine. I had an aircraft engine suffer catastrophic failure in flight and the outcome would have better if I had a second engine. I did walk away from the event so I'm grateful for that. The marine environment can be very unforgiving and loss of propulsion in poor weather can be a very bad thing.

You think Camguard's properties would function well with ZDDP zinc barrier between flat tappets and cam shaft lobes? I watched vids on Camguard website.

 

[T210DRVR]

I don't know. I'm pretty sure it won't hurt but adding ZDDP to the oil is a very good thing.

 

[Art]

I don't know. I'm pretty sure it won't hurt but adding ZDDP to the oil is a very good thing.

Seeing as my boat sometimes goes long durations between uses... seems that in addition to 4 oz. ZDDP I should include at least some Camguard into my 5 quart oil mixture.

Have you a recommendation for amount of Camguard to include in a 5 quart capacity oil sump?

And, Camguard is not really needed in often driven vehicles like car/truck/suv... is it??