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Old 11-05-2015, 07:03 PM   #61
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Piano player at a house of ill repute?


Oops, sorry. That's my dream occupation.
You may be quoting something from aviation...which quite likely came from somewhere else. But the quote something like this:

Don't tell my mother I am an airline pilot...she thinks I am a piano player in a whorehouse!!!
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Old 11-05-2015, 07:06 PM   #62
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You may be quoting something from aviation...which quite likely came from somewhere else. But the quote something like this:

Don't tell my mother I am an airline pilot...she thinks I am a piano player in a whorehouse!!!
Piano keys, console buttons all the same.....

Difference is a pilot can play all those buttons holding a hot cup of coffee....
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Old 11-05-2015, 07:57 PM   #63
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What exactly does any of this crap have to do with Marvel Mystery Oil?
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Old 11-05-2015, 08:04 PM   #64
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What exactly does any of this crap have to do with Marvel Mystery Oil?
Nothing other than they're both worthless.

For anyone interested, here is the history of the stuff from Wikipedia, if one has any faith in their interpretation of events....

Marvel Mystery Oil is a product of the Marvel Oil Company, founded by Burt Pierce in 1923. After World War I the Marvel Carburetor Company (Marvel-Schebler Carburetors since 1928) produced carburetors for automobiles and aircraft. Some of these encountered problems and as a result Pierce formulated a blend of chemicals and petroleum to clean and maintain clogged jets. It is claimed without evidence to be beneficial for engines by creating a top ring seal producing higher compression, preventing blow-by on power strokes, resulting in more power. The Marvel Oil Company was purchased by Turtle Wax Inc. in 1999.
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Old 11-05-2015, 08:10 PM   #65
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What exactly does any of this crap have to do with Marvel Mystery Oil?
Speaking of which Bob, your question raises the obvious ----
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Old 11-05-2015, 09:02 PM   #66
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Maybe I could get another 100,000 out of my 87 Nissan if I use MMO. It definitely has blow-by .. even at idle.
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Old 11-05-2015, 09:36 PM   #67
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I'd ship you some. But I'm sure that would result in a higher prison sentence then if I was shipping you drugs.
No Doubt!
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Old 11-05-2015, 10:14 PM   #68
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Just out of interest...re this low sulphur diesel lubricity, or lack of, and if it is an issue or not, such that it makes an additive wise for some engines, in particular the L120...has anyone actually ever put this exact query to Bob Smith of American Diesel..? Surely he is one person recognised as an expert re this engine by everyone on this forum..?
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Old 11-05-2015, 10:19 PM   #69
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MMO is not much of a lubricant if that is what you think you need.


If you feel compelled to add something to your diesel fuel I suggest you look at what the maker's of engines that cost over 6 figures require/recommend to be added to the fuel.

Goggle is better then TF for facts, TF is funner.

https://marine.cat.com/cda/files/949...%20Thought.pdf

Makers of fuel additives strive to demonstrate their benefits - Professional Mariner - April 2012

http://www.mandieselturbo.com/downlo...GenSet_Mk2.pdf

http://www.priproducts.com/pdfs/2012_June_Bunkerspot-Increased_Pmax_with_PRI.pdf



http://www.mandieselturbo.com/downlo...GenSet_Mk2.pdf

Mopar1973Man's Dodge Cummins Articles - HFRR testing of common diesel fuel additives
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Old 11-05-2015, 10:21 PM   #70
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Peter, see Bob's post #2.
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Old 11-05-2015, 11:11 PM   #71
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....has anyone actually ever put this exact query to Bob Smith of American Diesel..?
Bob Smith is the person who keeps telling FL120 operators to use MMO in their fuel. This despite the recent studies that show MMO actually reduces lubricity and is not recommended as a diesel fuel additive.

Bob knows a lot about Lehmans, no question, but this shows how people can cling to shade-tree-mechanic myths even after they've been debunked by tests and facts.

He told me to use it during a conversation some years back but on the advice of friends in the diesel engine manufacturing industry and then later after reading the results of the additive studies there is no way in hell I'd put it in the tanks of our boat.
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Old 11-05-2015, 11:16 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by Marin View Post
Bob Smith is the person who keeps telling FL120 operators to use MMO in their fuel. This despite the recent studies that show MMO actually reduces lubricity and is not recommended as a diesel fuel additive.

Bob knows a lot about Lehmans, no question, but this shows how people can cling to shade-tree-mechanic myths even after they've been debunked by tests and facts.

He told me to use it during a conversation some years back but on the advice of friends in the diesel engine manufacturing industry and then later after reading the results of the additive studies there is no way in hell I'd put it in the tanks of our boat.
So Bob Smith is not an "expert" on Lehman engines???
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Old 11-05-2015, 11:36 PM   #73
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Maybe I could get another 100,000 out of my 87 Nissan if I use MMO. It definitely has blow-by .. even at idle.
Eric--- Don't know how relevant this is to your blow-by thing, but back in 1973 when I bought my new Land Rover Series III-88 STP oil treatment was all the rage. At the time the Land Rover was the most expensive civilian 4 x 4 on the market in the US and wanting to maximize my new vehicle's life I fell for the hype and decided to add STP to the oil. As you may recall, STP has a very heavy consistency.

So I poured in the recommended amount in the parking lot of the auto parts store in Honolulu where I'd bought the STP and started driving home. Immediately--- and I mean immediately--- the engine started knocking on acceleration or under load. Away from a stoplight, up a gentle grade, you name it.

Very much alarmed, the next day I went back to the store and bought 8 quarts of Castrol GTX 20-50, the recommended lube oil for the Land Rover in my climate. I went home and changed the oil and it ran perfectly. No knocking.

But being young and gullible I still believed that STP would be good for the engine. Just goes to show you the power of persuasive marketing, right?

So I bought another can and added it to the oil again. And exactly the same thing happened. The engine immediately began knocking on acceleration or under load.

Back to the store, bought another 8 quarts of Castrol and changed the oil again and never put STP or anything else in the oil again.

Although at the time I did not know much about engines, I tried to figure out what had been happening when I added the STP but could not fathom what had been going on. Whatever it was, it had to be related to the STP vastly increasing the viscosity of the 20-50 oil in the engine. This was a brand new engine so blow-by from worn rings would not have been a factor. Knocking is usually a timing issue but I don't see any way simply increasing the viscosity of the oil could affect the ignition timing unless the compression was somehow being affected which then made the ignition timing incorrect under load. So it's still a mystery to me.

But if what was happening was that the STP-thickened oil was somehow affecting the compression ratio, perhaps something similar would happen in your vehicle if you added MMO. I've never even seen MMO so I have no idea of its viscosity.

Or you can try STP if they still make it. Where it made my new vehicle knock it might make your old one run better.
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Old 11-05-2015, 11:52 PM   #74
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So Bob Smith is not an "expert" on Lehman engines???
When it comes to fuel additives, obviously not. When it comes to the marinziation system Lehman designed for the Ford Dorset and Dover diesels, I think he is an expert since he worked for Lehman at the time and was involved in their marinization program. In years past he has given us advice on modifications to our FL120s that made sense and have proven to be excellent improvements.

However his stubborn adherence to the virtues of MMO have motivated us to seek second opinions on some of his other recommendations. Fortunately we have made contacts over the years who know as much if not more about the Dorset diesel than Bob does so a second opinion is easy to get. As a result we do not follow some of Bob's operating recommendations as they run counter to what we've learned in England.

Being an expert in some aspects of a subject does not automatically mean a person is an expert in all aspects, wouldn't you agree?
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Old 11-06-2015, 05:25 AM   #75
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Greetings,
Two things I remember in conversation with Mr. B. Smith. 1) Not necessary to add MMO to Lehmans but it wouldn't hurt anything if I did. 2) The 50 hr. oil change recommended in the manual for the injection pump is a misprint and a regime of 100 hr. oil changes is correct.
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Old 11-06-2015, 07:18 AM   #76
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So Bob Smith is not an "expert" on Lehman engines???
His vast experience makes him an expert on diagnosing/solving problems with the FL 120 (et al) engine.
But I also have received bad advise from him on two occasions.

One was to trash my tranny because the oil sample results had iron content at 3500 ppm. He said it was trash. I rebuilt it and it's fine.

The other was to NOT replace my engine coolant circulation pump at 4000+ hours when I had all the coolant out of the engine. He tried to convince me to NOT buy a new one. That I should wait until it actually started to leak before I gave it a thought.
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Old 11-06-2015, 07:31 AM   #77
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V"Whatever it was, it had to be related to the STP vastly increasing the viscosity of the 20-50 oil in the engine. This was a brand new engine so blow-by from worn rings would not have been a factor. Knocking is usually a timing issue but I don't see any way simply increasing the viscosity of the oil could affect the ignition timing unless the compression was somehow being affected which then made the ignition timing incorrect under load. So it's still a mystery to me.."

My Guess would be the rings were not able to scrape the thickened oil from the cylinder walls too well and the oil and fuel together caused pre ignition or detonation which you heard.
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Old 11-06-2015, 07:36 AM   #78
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Those pesky real life experts...just cant trust'em...

And even worse are the European experts, heck their advice is hours old....

Asking experts for advice or pretty well established facts in their area of expertise is obviously 2 different things. The fine line between them is important and is the same for getting advice off the internet where posts include links to industry standards or best practices, or most other things.
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Old 11-06-2015, 08:34 AM   #79
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Hey - I'm an expert on a couple items... but not on boat items. On boats I'm just a lowly Guru such as TF has hundreds to chose from.

But be careful - There is a single Enigma amongst us. And, he supersede Guru on several counts... but not all counts!

Happy Boat-Life (and TF) Daze - Art
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Old 11-06-2015, 09:25 AM   #80
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Those pesky real life experts...just cant trust'em...

And even worse are the European experts, heck their advice is hours old....
Or maybe their advise is hours ahead?
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