Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 11-04-2015, 06:49 PM   #41
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Avalon, NJ
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 15,928
Once again..whose experts are correct?

And what are the numbers of the vast majority of actual user failures?

2nd hand reporting or the word of someone who has established a pretty good rep on these matters?

The again, TF is really only for entertainment because all posts are suspect and really need in depth investigation beyond...

Based on the issues with my recently overhauled injection pump...I think I will add lubricity improves occasionally and try to do better but I think I lean towards the Ski truth than the second hand truth....as I have been advised right here on TF.
__________________
Advertisement

psneeld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2015, 07:12 PM   #42
Al
Guru
 
Al's Avatar
 
City: ketchikan, Alaska
Country: usa
Vessel Name: 'SLO'~BELLE
Vessel Model: 1978 Marben-27' Flybridge Trawler Pilothouse Pocket Cruiser[
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 1,695
Quote:
Originally Posted by tallswede View Post
i Only use Marvel Mystery Oil to help free up stuck valves, lifters and rings in engines that have sat for awhile. Diesels will burn it when squirted into the intake to give dry cylinders and rings a bit of extra oil to seal when turning over. Other than that, it doesn't do much. It's good for getting old engines going and kinda flushing out the old oil and crud. Then change oil and get back on a normal lube and fuel schedule. I've done this with many gas and diesel engines over the years. Regular use of MMO once up and running regularly doesn't do anything that I've seen.

Kevin
Now we are taking!! I use SeaFoam in the fuel two cap full per 20 gallons and a pint of MMO in the base towards the engine oil change point.
Al -Ketchikan
__________________

Al is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2015, 10:41 PM   #43
Scraping Paint
 
City: -
Country: -
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,748
Quote:
Originally Posted by psneeld View Post
Once again..whose experts are correct?

Then again, TF is really only for entertainment because all posts are suspect and really need in depth investigation beyond...
Absolutely right on the money.

Our boat is going on 43 years old now and while it was well made at the outset to say it has had its share of problems during the 17 years we've owned it so far would be an understatement. In fact it is currently sitting in the yard for the second time in an ongoing effort to diagnose and fix a fairly serious packing gland problem on the starboard shaft.

But I have never been compelled to bring up any of the issues we've had with the boat over the years on this forum because I know all I would get would be amateur guesses, opinions, armchair theories and incorrect information. Instead we have built up over the years a network of experienced, credible people, most of them long-time professionals, in every aspect of knowledge as we've come to need it with regards to power and drive train, electronics, electrical, mechanical, etc. systems. Most of them are local to the Puget Sound area but a couple are in England.

So, for example, when I got a call from the yard today telling me what they have found and what their recommended course of action is, I then called a good friend who's been in the marine power, drive train, and generator industry for many decades and knows more about these subjects than God and ran the yard's findings and recommendation past him. I knew what I would get was something I could count on as being objective and correct.

So you're right on the money, Psneeld, with regards to your entertainment statement. This forum is certainly that.

And while I may pass on information I've learned either from direct experience or from sources I consider credible, I do so with the expectation that nobody will be fool enough to act on what I write without checking it with their own network of experts first.

Because building up a network of "experts" is like everything else having to do with people. It requires the ability to judge another person based on a whole lot of factors from the way they talk to the way they act to even their body language. And you can't do that on the internet where people are just words on a page.
Marin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2015, 12:28 AM   #44
Art
Guru
 
Art's Avatar
 
City: SF Bay Area
Country: USA
Vessel Model: Tollycraft 34' Tri Cabin
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 7,986
Quote:
Originally Posted by Al View Post
Now we are taking!! I use SeaFoam in the fuel two cap full per 20 gallons and a pint of MMO in the base towards the engine oil change point.
Al -Ketchikan
I use Seafoam as a major jolt-factor... one can to about 20 gallons. Also like to really-jolt things with Berryman B-12 Chemtool





Toluene (in Chemtool) works wonders for cleaning things up!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toluene
Art is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2015, 06:30 AM   #45
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Avalon, NJ
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 15,928
The trouble with experts either on the internet or at a local shop or marina...you do have to know enough to know if they are truly experts.

And I would say there are many posters here that are truly experts on many subjects, few on boating but there are those too. After verifying many posts by some that seem to ring true.....I would accept their info on part with off site ones equally.

Even the off board experts need to be verified, so I see little difference.
psneeld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2015, 06:47 AM   #46
FF
Guru
 
FF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 16,534
The big hassle is some of the folks on this board simply bought a boat , with no boating experience , no boating background and little boating experience.

They ask to solve problems , and hopefully the answers the receive get filtered by others on the board .

EG Sealants,,,, there are usually enough comments on weather to glue it up with 5200 or assemble it with say Dolphinite for the person to get a grasp on the huge differences in sealants.

Free advice is indeed worth what you pay for it ,

BUT its better than guessing or even worse having to pay for someones guess, ask Janice. .
,
FF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2015, 07:03 AM   #47
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Avalon, NJ
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 15,928
Quote:
Originally Posted by FF View Post

BUT its better than guessing or even worse having to pay for someones guess, ask Janice. .
,
And has been for lots of people here including myself.

I wouldn't waste my time here if it was only entertainment....that might mean I don't have much in the way of a life.

I live at a marina, near a boat ramp, and assistance tow...boating "entertainment" in real life isn't far away..no need for electronic entertainment here......
psneeld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2015, 08:12 AM   #48
Art
Guru
 
Art's Avatar
 
City: SF Bay Area
Country: USA
Vessel Model: Tollycraft 34' Tri Cabin
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 7,986
Quote:
Originally Posted by psneeld View Post

I wouldn't waste my time here if it was only entertainment....that might mean I don't have much in the way of a life.

I live at a marina, near a boat ramp, and assistance tow...boating "entertainment" in real life isn't far away..no need for electronic entertainment here......
Agreed, in principal!

Reason I enjoy discussing and leaning from issues of many types on TF; boating issues being the majority:

1. There is a well rounded group of intelligent eclectic contributors here to maintain marine things interesting enough to keep my learning curve still on the upswing.

2. I enjoy being able to place my points on issues with others' points usually well stated for my learning experience.

3. It's fun to explore boating parameters with other seasoned mariners who know things I don't.

4. Newbies to the boating world need a bunch of "old salts" such as we who are at least somewhat experienced to help "launch" their pleasure-boat-joy life encounters.

I doubt I'd have had band-width (or ample desire) to start full scale pleasure boating in my 60's (or even 50's / 40's) without having been amply trained in boating from early age. That said; TF's seasoned boating contributors provide opportunity for nearly any age person to "dive" into boating with knowledge that nearly any question they have can and mostly will be quickly addressed my knowledgeable boaters on TF.

In a sense we act as teachers and guidance counselors to newbie pleasure-boat enthusiasts in all age groups (i.e., those already having or wanting to get into accommodating area cruisers up to and including ocean crossers - not so much ski boats).

Happy TF Daze- Art
Art is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2015, 08:54 AM   #49
Guru
 
Capt.Bill11's Avatar
 
City: Sarasota/Ft. Lauderdale
Country: USA
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 5,422
Quote:
Originally Posted by Art View Post
I use Seafoam as a major jolt-factor... one can to about 20 gallons. Also like to really-jolt things with Berryman B-12 Chemtool





Toluene (in Chemtool) works wonders for cleaning things up!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toluene

Just by toluene at your local hardware store and bypass the mark up you pay when you buy the Berryman product.

Toluene and Xylene make great octane boosters at around a 10% ratio with gas. As well as fuel systems cleaners.
Capt.Bill11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2015, 09:07 AM   #50
Art
Guru
 
Art's Avatar
 
City: SF Bay Area
Country: USA
Vessel Model: Tollycraft 34' Tri Cabin
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 7,986
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt.Bill11 View Post
Just by toluene at your local hardware store and bypass the mark up you pay when you buy the Berryman product.

Toluene and Xylene make great octane boosters at around a 10% ratio with gas. As well as fuel systems cleaners.
I did - till CA outlawed the sale of toluene. Some how Berryman can still have it in their Chem Tool mix??? Only product of any sort I can locate here that still has toluene included.

In Maine, early 1970's, while building new FRP boats in what was then titled Maine Ship Builders, we used toluene by the 55 gal drum. That's when I learned its powers.
Art is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2015, 11:58 AM   #51
Guru
 
Capt.Bill11's Avatar
 
City: Sarasota/Ft. Lauderdale
Country: USA
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 5,422
Quote:
Originally Posted by Art View Post
I did - till CA outlawed the sale of toluene. Some how Berryman can still have it in their Chem Tool mix??? Only product of any sort I can locate here that still has toluene included.
I'd ship you some. But I'm sure that would result in a higher prison sentence then if I was shipping you drugs.
Capt.Bill11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2015, 12:14 PM   #52
TF Site Team
 
Baker's Avatar
 
City: League City, Tx
Country: Texas
Vessel Model: Carver 356
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 5,633
Quote:
Originally Posted by psneeld View Post
Once again..whose experts are correct?

And what are the numbers of the vast majority of actual user failures?

2nd hand reporting or the word of someone who has established a pretty good rep on these matters?

The again, TF is really only for entertainment because all posts are suspect and really need in depth investigation beyond...

Based on the issues with my recently overhauled injection pump...I think I will add lubricity improves occasionally and try to do better but I think I lean towards the Ski truth than the second hand truth....as I have been advised right here on TF.
The only difference here is Ski IS the expert...and not second hand. I would take what he says to the bank....literally....especially when it comes to Yanmar and Cummins.
__________________
Prairie 29...Perkins 4236...Sold
Mainship Pilot 30...Yanmar 4LHA-STP...Sold
Carver 356...T-Cummins 330B
Baker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2015, 03:17 PM   #53
Guru
 
Nomad Willy's Avatar
 
City: Concrete Washington State
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Willy
Vessel Model: Willard Nomad 30'
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,724
Everybody here constantly evaluates who the experts are and needs no one to tell them who it is. My evaluations have been all over the map through the years as people reveal more and more about themselves and what they know.

And as for what is fact that's all over the map too. But most of us have a well established opinion about what is fact and that often differs from member to member. Case in point the adding lube to diesel fuel thread. Lots of different opinions. Even the things many of us think of as facts become opinions on a forum. So it's constantly evaluating information to form new opinions or confirm those established.

But if your'e science minded the opinions can be turned into facts or no w the application of lots of objectivity. Not exactly rare on a forum but certianly not found in abundance either.
__________________
Eric

North Western Washington State USA
Nomad Willy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2015, 03:34 PM   #54
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Avalon, NJ
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 15,928
Depends who is definining "facts".

In the lubricity debate...there are those that add and swear by it because they never have problems with their engines or some I'll defined issue goes away.

There are those that don't use additives and swear by it because their engine lasts just as long as the adders.

Neither set of data is anything more than opinion.

When a marine mechanic, engineer states he has only seen xxx, then if I trust that person...my guess it would weigh more heavily than a recrational boaters opinion. Especially because how can a recreational boater express their experts opinion unless their expert is named and investigated, then compared in weight by the masses.

Hey take an experts opinion...this is all just entertainment...and I am not that expert.....
psneeld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2015, 04:42 PM   #55
Scraping Paint
 
City: -
Country: -
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,748
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baker View Post
The only difference here is Ski IS the expert...and not second hand. I would take what he says to the bank....literally....especially when it comes to Yanmar and Cummins.
That may be for those engines but obviously not for FL120s.

Quote:
Psneeld: Even the off board experts need to be verified, so I see little difference.
I think there is a huge difference. Contrary to what some others have said, I do not regard anyone on TF as an expert on boating subjects simply for the fact that I have no way to vette them or judge if they know what they're talking about or are just blowing smoke or armchair-theorizing.

And given the kinds of responses I have seen over the years to boating topics that I do happen to know about--- admittedly there aren't very many of those, but there are a few--- I am pretty convinced my approach to the forum is the safest one: great entertainment but not anything I would ever actually trust or act on without checking with known (to me) credible sources.

Psneeld is absolutely correct; just because someone is a "professional" (which by definition simply means they charge for their work) does not mean they are any good at what they do. People one meets in person have to be judged very carefully before one accepts them as credible sources. The only way that can be done, however, is to do it in person.

Psneeld is also correct in that "advice" on this forum should always be checked with other sources, ideally known credible sources, before being acted on. I see that as a waste of time which is why I put no stock in the "advice" I see posted here on various topics. Since I'm going to check it all anyway with the network of credible sources I've created over a lot of years, why not simply go to those sources to start with? Which is what I do.

The number one downside of the internet is that it gives automatic credibility to everything that's on it simply by virtue of it being in print. Because humans have not yet evolved--- and perhaps they never will--- past the "if it's in print it must be right" mentality.

The initial reaction to something a person sees in print is to believe it. Depending on that person's education, knowledge, experience, logic and common sense that person may immediately dismiss what they read as being BS. Or know to check it out more thoroughly before accepting it as fact. But the first reaction is to give it credibility simply by virtue of it being in print.

In the old days when print meant books, magazines and newspapers giving credibility to something because it was in print had a lot of validity to it. Books, magazines and newspapers have quite a process that is gone through before they are published. More than one set of eyes are cast over what's been written before it's put out there for everyone to read. This doesn't keep bad information from being published but it's a control step designed to prevent bad information from getting out there unless printing bad information is the objective.

This all disappeared with the internet. Even the much vaunted Wikipedia cannot be assumed to be correct because there is no truly effective check on what's printed there. On the topic of the company I work for and its products alone I have come across all kinds of flat out inaccuracies.

And when you get to things like public forums like this, there is no credibility control whatsoever.

But..... there is still that inherent tendency to believe what's in print simply because it's in print. So you get all sorts of knee-jerk reactions to stuff that isn't even true, decisions being made based on stuff that isn't true, people going off in totally the wrong direction following somebody's "advice," and so on. Sometimes the end result has little more consequence than being funny. Other times, the end result can be very serious or even life-threatening.

If one is smart enough to realize this and treats things like this forum as nothing more than an entertaining past-time, fine. No harm done. But as information becomes more and more feelings driven than fact driven--- which is what is happening today across the board--- the consequences will continue to become more and more serious and detrimental.

Humans will eventually realize this but they'll have to burn themselves pretty seriously before they learn not to touch things that are real hot. We're a long way from reaching that point right now.

Which is why I put no stock whatsoever in the content of this forum but I do find it a very entertaining way to take a short break from reality.
Marin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2015, 04:50 PM   #56
Guru
 
City: Carefree, Arizona
Country: usa
Vessel Name: sunchaser V
Vessel Model: DeFever 48
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 6,376
Fortunately lubricity can be and is measured, studies and findings are published. Further, refining and plant operations rely upon sophisticated control strategies to ensure QA and QC guidelines are routinely achieved.

This is not good news to the aftermarket purveyors who openly critique, to sell their own stuff, and state how lousy a job the refiners are doing to ensure lubricity ranges are met.

Having been on the receiving end of tankers, rail cars and ships when samples of incoming were taken, the concern was water more than any other issue.

Can't recall when lubricity was raised as a red flag. We did get umpire samples at times from both the refinery and shipper to ensure clean transport tanks.
sunchaser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2015, 05:08 PM   #57
Guru
 
HiDHo's Avatar
 
City: Scottsboro, Al.
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Hi-D-Ho
Vessel Model: 1987 Krogen Manatee
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 735
13,222 short breaks
HiDHo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2015, 05:12 PM   #58
Enigma
 
RT Firefly's Avatar
 
City: Slicker?
Country: Bumpkin?
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 9,997
Greetings,
I've never expected anyone to take my suggestions as any sort of expertise nor apply them without corroboration. I have ONE field where I and others consider me to be an expert but in my 8+ years of membership, that particular field has never come up that I can recall.
__________________
RTF
RT Firefly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2015, 06:22 PM   #59
Scraping Paint
 
City: -
Country: -
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,748
Quote:
Originally Posted by HiDHo View Post
13,222 short breaks

Yep, since 2007. I dash off these stupid posts-- even the long ones--- in just a few minutes, usually while I'm waiting for a computer to render something out like right now, and then get on with something meaningful. Some people I know like to look at YouTube videos for breaks from what they're doing, others read the on-line newpapers or look at magazines or whatever. I like to look through TF as it's entertaining reading with sometimes nice photos.

Since 2007 I have gotten exactly one piece of truly useful information from TF and that's the perfect product to use to clean groundpower cables and fenders. That and Eric's series of posts about his journey from Alaska back here to Washington. That was very cool.

Otherwise it's kind of like watching Family Guy.
Marin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2015, 06:43 PM   #60
Guru
 
City: Hotel, CA
Country: Fried
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 8,328
Quote:
Originally Posted by RT Firefly View Post
Greetings,
I've never expected anyone to take my suggestions as any sort of expertise nor apply them without corroboration. I have ONE field where I and others consider me to be an expert but in my 8+ years of membership, that particular field has never come up that I can recall.
Piano player at a house of ill repute?


Oops, sorry. That's my dream occupation.
__________________

__________________
Craig

It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they've been fooled - Mark Twain
CPseudonym is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:07 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012