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Old 05-02-2012, 03:08 PM   #21
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I run 15-40 Rotella in my Lehman 120. The previous owner ran that for many years, and I am a believer of sticking with the same brand. I discussed that with Bob Smith and although he started to try to convince me to change to single weight, he agreed that staying consistent with what was being used was a good idea.
My personal theory for using synthetic in the velvet drive is based on my engineering experience working with bearing engineers for so many years. They did not like it when they had an application with tranny fluid because it is not provide good lubrication and the bearings have a shorter life generally.
Tranny fluid has better anti foaming properties and that is why they use it , however if under 3000 rpm regular motor oil won't foam so its acceptable and gives better lubrication to the bearings. I believe that synthetic provides even better lubrication and will stay cooler, both of which are good things in a tranny. I discussed this with the BorgWarner techs in Ma, and they agreed. It has only been 4 seasons, but so far so good.
Note I am not trying to convince anyone to do this, I am just stating my reasoning.

In closing none of know how long a Ford Lehman would last on sythetic oil. It may double or triple the 10,000 hours that is commonly mentioned, and then again it may shorten it to 1000 hours. We can only surmise at least until we get some data points from Daddyo
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Old 05-02-2012, 04:01 PM   #22
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Hate to throw a kink in this discussion but you can get straight 30 weight in synthetic. Amsoil has it. It just wasn't available to me when I made this choice. As to the 5w-30 I used, here is the description from the Amsoil site
"Engineered for pre-2007 diesel engines in on-road applications as well as all model year diesel engines in off-road applications."
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Old 05-02-2012, 04:13 PM   #23
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"Engineered for pre-2007 diesel engines in on-road applications as well as all model year diesel engines in off-road applications."
So, "off-road" includes "on-water"?
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Old 05-02-2012, 08:06 PM   #24
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Marin says:
"But his involvement with the Lehman engines is far more than just as a mechanic." Yea.....he's a small business man. I know you guys like uncle Bob but I think his opinions are too close to opinions. I'd go w the manual. And multi-weight oil is like "premium" gasoline. It's only needed if it's needed. Otherwise you're just buying hype and wasting your money.

Mark...No but ""Engineered for pre-2007 diesel engines in on-road applications as well as all model year diesel engines in off-road applications." would be 98% of a green flag to me but then I do'nt see any reason to use it. Being an experimenter I'd be inclined to try it re what psneeld said. Those boatDiesel guys are onto that diesel stuff but I'll bet there's still some old wife's tales and off the mark opinions. Very high level of experience and knowledge though. Like Bob Smith........opinions but good opinions.... for serious considerations but not the last word. Even what engineers say is questionable ...but far less so.

Multi-vis fine. Syn oil fine ...if it's for a diesel engine but again there's no downside for using 30W dino. And one can use the money saved to do more frequent oil changes and that definitely is better for the engine.

Psneeld, .....Some time back it was said that multi-vis oils were fine when new but lost some or most of their multi-vis performance so 15W40 would soon become 20W oil or 15W. I think the base oil for say 5W30 oil is 5W oil.
Any of the this correct?
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Old 05-02-2012, 08:19 PM   #25
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Marin says:
"But his involvement with the Lehman engines is far more than just as a mechanic." Yea.....he's a small business man. I know you guys like uncle Bob but I think his opinions are too close to opinions. I'd go w the manual. And multi-weight oil is like "premium" gasoline. It's only needed if it's needed. Otherwise you're just buying hype and wasting your money.
But when it's needed and in some applications...like running my truck in the winter...it's needed regularly... Plus the guy was a VP with Ford for the Lehman division...probably reviewed the manuals more than once or twice....guess that doesn't account for much.

Mark...No but ""Engineered for pre-2007 diesel engines in on-road applications as well as all model year diesel engines in off-road applications." would be 98% of a green flag to me but then I do'nt see any reason to use it. Being an experimenter I'd be inclined to try it re what psneeld said. Those boatDiesel guys are onto that diesel stuff but I'll bet there's still some old wife's tales and off the mark opinions. Very high level of experience and knowledge though. Like Bob Smith........opinions but good opinions.... for serious considerations but not the last word. Even what engineers say is questionable ...but far less so.

Multi-vis fine. Syn oil fine ...if it's for a diesel engine but again there's no downside for using 30W dino. And one can use the money saved to do more frequent oil changes and that definitely is better for the engine. More frequently to a point...then it's a waste of money like you mentioned in para 1

Psneeld, .....Some time back it was said that multi-vis oils were fine when new but lost some or most of their multi-vis performance so 15W40 would soon become 20W oil or 15W. I think the base oil for say 5W30 oil is 5W oil. I'm sure they lose some of their properties over time/usage...but the multis are being run in tractor trailers for many more miles than our 200 hour intervals because they go with oil analysis..so the multi rating isn't given up too easily...
Any of the this correct?
Like you say we all have "opinions" .....as none of us are publishing findings from our testing lab or are just repeating what we heard and throwing in a little personal experience along the way...
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Old 05-02-2012, 08:36 PM   #26
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Daddyo stated a factual observation. The synthetic (who makes it for WM?) was the same price as Rotella. So good, keep using it Daddyo and let us know your findings when comparing this port to starboard oil test.

I'm lost as to the responses to the non question. Excepting "go by the book" and Marin's banana peel analogy - those two I grasp.
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Old 05-02-2012, 10:51 PM   #27
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How about synthetic oil used in conjunction with bypass oil filtering? The oil stays cleaner and you may get enough use out of it to justify it's higher expense. Change it when the oil analysis says so.
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Old 05-03-2012, 12:27 AM   #28
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How about synthetic oil used in conjunction with bypass oil filtering? The oil stays cleaner and you may get enough use out of it to justify it's higher expense. Change it when the oil analysis says so.
That is the setup we have, put in by the previous owner. He says its good for 500 - 600 hours before changing, but we won't go anywhere near that. (He was an Amsoil rep, so you would think he'd recommend changes every 10 hours!)
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Old 05-03-2012, 01:35 AM   #29
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psneeld,
1. In a truck or car Multi-vis is a worthwhile feature and I use 10W30 in my trucks and cars in the winter. In the summer I use 20W50 Castrol GTX.
2. More frequently is better.....when it becomes a waste of time I do'nt know.
3. Yes. And if I had a diesel truck I'd run 15W40 just like everyone else. Road vehicles are often called on to work fairly hard before being warmed up. We warm up our boat engines as slowly as we wish and because of that we do'nt need multi-vis oil.
4. Opinions yes. If only scientific studies were made here there would'nt be any Trawler Forum.

Conrad, alormaria,
Well, that's what we had before full flow oil filters. As far as I know by pass filtering is great no mater what kind of oil one uses. I wonder how much carbon the by pass filters got/get compared to the full flow spin-ons? Since carbon is the abrasive that wears out engines. I also wonder how much of the capacity of full flow filters is used between oil/filter changes? How much muck will they hold and how much do they filter out?
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Old 05-03-2012, 01:43 AM   #30
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How about synthetic oil used in conjunction with bypass oil filtering? The oil stays cleaner and you may get enough use out of it to justify it's higher expense. Change it when the oil analysis says so.
I wish these threads were read in their entirety. The cost is virtually identical even before figuring a longer duty cycle for the syn. 4 quarts dino $14 vs 5 quarts syn $18. As I had stated in a previous thread when I asked Bob Smith last fall he said he saw no problem with using a syn just didn't see an advantage if it was more expensive (it's not).
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Old 05-03-2012, 05:54 AM   #31
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I wish these threads were read in their entirety. The cost is virtually identical even before figuring a longer duty cycle for the syn. 4 quarts dino $14 vs 5 quarts syn $18. As I had stated in a previous thread when I asked Bob Smith last fall he said he saw no problem with using a syn just didn't see an advantage if it was more expensive (it's not).
Usually the cost between syn and dino is not the same. For Rotella dino $13 for Rotella Syn $22 tmes 4 gallons per engine is almost $40 per change. Even more if you use a pure syn like Mobile 1 that's $50+ per qt sixpack.

But as been said before...for the average boter that's only about $100 per year..but for a long distance cruiser...it could be easily double or triple that.

alormaria - Using a bypass system is ONLY OK if you are having regular oil analysis done..you have to worry about both filtration AND oil chemistry.
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Old 05-03-2012, 06:38 AM   #32
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Using a bypass system is ONLY OK if you are having regular oil analysis done..you have to worry about both filtration AND oil chemistry.

AND run your hours in the prescribed "in engine " time.

OTR trucks 10 hours a day and commercial boats can do this , but the clock ticking on the required time changes makes syn a poor choice for pleasure boat engines.

Transmissions are a different matter. As are perhaps noisemakers if used enough.

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Old 05-04-2012, 12:06 AM   #33
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on a side note I switched from st 30 weight to muti vis oil on my 120 on 200 hr trip my oil usage went from a qt every 20hrs to a qt every 60 hrs 80 hrs same oil same rpm
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Old 05-04-2012, 07:10 AM   #34
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on a side note I switched from st 30 weight to muti vis oil on my 120 on 200 hr trip my oil usage went from a qt every 20hrs to a qt every 60 hrs 80 hrs same oil same rpm
I had a similar experience years ago with my Perkins T6.354.
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Old 05-04-2012, 08:16 AM   #35
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on a side note I switched from st 30 weight to muti vis oil on my 120 on 200 hr trip my oil usage went from a qt every 20hrs to a qt every 60 hrs 80 hrs same oil same rpm

I was blowing off the sny/dino discussion. But this has gotten my attention.
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Old 05-04-2012, 08:53 AM   #36
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I was blowing off the sny/dino discussion. But this has gotten my attention.
same make oil , rotella I know my motor manual called for st 30wt but that book was written 30years ago A trucker friend talked me into switching I have no other explantion but that was my experience
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Old 05-04-2012, 09:57 AM   #37
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I use more oil that I think is reasonable. But I figured, hey, it's a 35 - 40 year old engine, been through Lord knows how many owners, seen unknown abuse .. so, fine, it's not like I'm buying oil in 55 gallon drums.

But I'm going to switch over to a Rotella multi-vis and see how it goes.

A good, useful tip. Thanks!
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Old 05-04-2012, 11:19 AM   #38
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Lurker,
Perhaps you have some stuck rings.
Have you done lots of underloading?
A cure may be an oil additive called "Sea Foam" and a switch to W40 oil. I've used Sea Foam as far back as the 50s but then it was called "Risoline". It's very effective and I've experienced no ill effects.
A compression test or leak down test may tell you what you need to know.

Motion,

Your trucker friend needs the multi-vis but you do'nt. Imagine him at a motel at the bottom of a steep grade. Early in the cold morning hours he's going to be putting a very heavy load on his engine w minimal warm up.

jleonard,

I suspect there may have been other variables involved. The additive package is an obvious difference between the two oils and other variables probably were in the mix as well.
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Old 05-04-2012, 11:58 AM   #39
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Lurker,
Perhaps you have some stuck rings.
Have you done lots of underloading?
A cure may be an oil additive called "Sea Foam" and a switch to W40 oil. I've used Sea Foam as far back as the 50s but then it was called "Risoline". It's very effective and I've experienced no ill effects.
A compression test or leak down test may tell you what you need to know.

Motion,

Your trucker friend needs the multi-vis but you do'nt. Imagine him at a motel at the bottom of a steep grade. Early in the cold morning hours he's going to be putting a very heavy load on his engine w minimal warm up.

jleonard,

I suspect there may have been other variables involved. The additive package is an obvious difference between the two oils and other variables probably were in the mix as well.
It's ALSO about starting the engine in cold/cooler temps....
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Old 05-04-2012, 12:37 PM   #40
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"about"?

Sounds like your'e trying to imply that a trawler engine won't crank over fast enough to start normally in cold weather. My engine starts normally always. Even in the winter in Alaska and I use a mix of 30W and 40W Delo 400. Do'nt need multi-vis or synthetic oil.
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