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01-03-2016, 10:11 AM
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#21
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Guru
City: Edgewater, MD
Vessel Name: Catalina Jack
Vessel Model: Defever 44
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,585
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$100 for a rebuild of an injector line?! My goodness, one may purchase brand new lines from American Diesel for $90. Brian could have them shipped to you probably in less time than to have one rebuilt. I know cuz I bought one last year to replace the spare I used to replace the cracked line that I experienced underway in the St. John's River. Sprayed fuel all of the engine. A nice mess to clean up. Fortunately, we had six spare lines aboard.
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01-03-2016, 11:58 AM
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#22
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Guru
City: Pender Harbour, BC
Vessel Name: Gwaii Haanas
Vessel Model: Custom Aluminum 52
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 3,791
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Just remember that if you are messing with hydraulic leaks with the engine running that the pressure is high enough to inject you with fuel too. Very hazardous, be careful.
__________________
Don't believe everything that you think.
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08-28-2016, 08:03 PM
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#23
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Member
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 5
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Hello Cal sailors
My original cal cruising 46 hull no 5 came with a Perkins 4.236 engine
For years I could only do max of 14 to 1600 RPM on cruising (6-7 knots)
After much trouble turns out the injectors where clogged or partially clogged
And the marine growth build up in the heatexchanger impeded cruising at higher RPM
cuz of over Heating
NOW that I've got all that resolved, the boat wants to fly
Now I can do 2200 to 2400 RPM in a heartbeat and cruise at 8.5 to 8.7 knots
And water gushes out in the back exhaust like Niagara Falls
What I have discovered now is,
After a 4 hrs trip to Catalina island, (from Marina del Rey ) a mere 28 nautical
Miles away, my engine oil is LOW and requires a top off 1 to 1.5 quarts of oil!
ITS BURNING OIL at much higher rpm
The engine runs smoothly, no overheating no black or blue smoke, good sound
I do see a slight white fog coming out of the exhaust but that may
Be from the coldness of the water and the fact the exhaust spends 1/3 of time
Underwater while cruising
But this oil loss is really annoying and worrisome
The engines runs so well though
The engine hours barely reads 1250 hrs
Had the injector pump and injectors rebuilt last year
The oil and antifreeze is clean, no cross contamination, no visible leak anywhere
Any advise?
I have not tried running at just 15-1600 to see if this persists
Would appreciate any thoughts
Edwin
Cal Cruising 46
MdR
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01-17-2018, 09:01 PM
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#24
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Member
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 6
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Great info!!
No leaks now but with 2 and they are now 39yrs old will keep in a file for use if and when a leak develops.
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04-16-2019, 08:34 PM
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#25
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Senior Member
City: Marathon, FL & On Loop
Vessel Name: Maka Honu
Vessel Model: Ta Yang, 42 Tayana PH Trawler 1976
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 313
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Unsure of your plumbing but if you have oil cooler, oil side tube leak sends oil into the shell side water which oil then gets shipped out exhaust with the water.
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07-20-2019, 03:30 PM
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#26
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Newbie
City: Tauranga
Vessel Name: Kahu
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 1
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Very useful article! Especially with the part/order numbers and link. I have the Marlin Ford Lees Marine with same pump. Regarding the steel and copper washer, why are both included in the kit and why did you use the steel ones rather than the copper please? Thanks
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01-07-2021, 11:36 AM
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#27
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Guru
City: south kingstown
Vessel Name: Albatross
Vessel Model: 1973 Grand Banks 36
Join Date: May 2019
Posts: 604
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Delivery valves
Nice post Dan. I thought some other background might be of interest. I was a mechanic for Mack Truck years ago, and Mack had 2 mechanical injection pump styles. The American Bosch & the Robert Bosch (German). The Americans you could service the delivery valves on the engine, but there were no crush washers, you had lap the valves in on a lap block to get them to seal. The Robert Bosch could not be done on the engine as removing the delivery valve altered the internal pump timing. These could only be done off the engine so that they could be re-calibrated on a calibration stand. That was unless you had the very special alignment jig that was installed on the valve before removal. The RB pumps were supposed to be better, but we all thought they were a pain in the butt. I just closed on a 1973 GB 36 with twin Lehman 120's, so I am always interested in information regarding them. Again, nice post, thanks for the info. PS anyone know about the pump oil change interval and oil type? Thanks
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01-07-2021, 12:31 PM
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#28
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Guru
City: Edgewater, MD
Vessel Name: Catalina Jack
Vessel Model: Defever 44
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,585
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The early advice from American Diesel was to change the pump oil every 50 hours. Bob Smith later changed his advice to as many as 150 hours. I spilt the difference and change at 100 hours.
You should also consider retorquing the cylinder heads and then adjusting the valves. The valves on a FL120 should not be adjusted without first doing the heads. Brian Smith recommends adjusting the valves at no more than 1,000 hours.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ronobrien
Nice post Dan. I thought some other background might be of interest. I was a mechanic for Mack Truck years ago, and Mack had 2 mechanical injection pump styles. The American Bosch & the Robert Bosch (German). The Americans you could service the delivery valves on the engine, but there were no crush washers, you had lap the valves in on a lap block to get them to seal. The Robert Bosch could not be done on the engine as removing the delivery valve altered the internal pump timing. These could only be done off the engine so that they could be re-calibrated on a calibration stand. That was unless you had the very special alignment jig that was installed on the valve before removal. The RB pumps were supposed to be better, but we all thought they were a pain in the butt. I just closed on a 1973 GB 36 with twin Lehman 120's, so I am always interested in information regarding them. Again, nice post, thanks for the info. PS anyone know about the pump oil change interval and oil type? Thanks
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01-07-2021, 01:06 PM
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#29
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Moderator Emeritus
City: Au Gres, MI
Vessel Name: Black Dog
Vessel Model: Formula 41PC
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 21,129
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In the last seminar that Bob Smith gave before he passed, he said to start at 50 hours and see if the oil is diluted. If not then extend it a bit more and see if it is diluted. He said every engine is different and you need to find the sweet spot for your engine. One member in the seminar said he had 2 120s. One had to be changed at 50:hours and the other one could go 100 hours. So I would look at the oil at 50 and if it isn’t diluted then try 60 and so on. Good luck with your new boat. Have fun!
__________________
Boat Nut:
If you are one there is no explanation necessary.
If you aren’t one, there is no explanation possible.
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01-07-2021, 04:36 PM
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#30
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Guru
City: Edgewater, MD
Vessel Name: Catalina Jack
Vessel Model: Defever 44
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,585
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Dave, good point. I measure the volume of oil drained from the pumps. Even at 150 hours I have never seen oil in volumes in excess of the initial fill. So, doesn't that mean fuel dilution is really not very much? I once talked with a FL120 owner who did not become aware of the oil change requirement for FOURTEEN years. He did find that there was a lot of fuel dilution when he changed the oil but with no apparent damage to the pump because he had continued to use that pump for several more years and was continuing to do so. This was not a lightly used vessel. I have a sense that there has never been a real test of how long these pumps would last with infrequent oil changes. Still, I will continue to change my oil every 150 hours. Easy enough to do and not costly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Comodave
In the last seminar that Bob Smith gave before he passed, he said to start at 50 hours and see if the oil is diluted. If not then extend it a bit more and see if it is diluted. He said every engine is different and you need to find the sweet spot for your engine. One member in the seminar said he had 2 120s. One had to be changed at 50:hours and the other one could go 100 hours. So I would look at the oil at 50 and if it isn’t diluted then try 60 and so on. Good luck with your new boat. Have fun!
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01-07-2021, 05:00 PM
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#31
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Guru
City: Montgomery
Vessel Name: Choices
Vessel Model: 36 Grand Banks Europa
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 896
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Good job!
__________________
36 Grand Banks Europa
Montgomery, TX
Blog: "grandbankschoices"
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01-29-2022, 09:36 AM
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#32
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Guru
City: Curacao
Vessel Name: Endless Summer
Vessel Model: 1979 Defever 49
Join Date: Oct 2021
Posts: 637
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Am so glad I found this post about the refurbishing of the fuel pumps. Am having my cylinders, pistons, valves, injectors etc cleaned by a mechanic, for which he is charging me a very nice amount, but it needs to be done.
Today he came with the 'suggestion' to do a complete overhaul of the fuel pumps, so that I know for sure they are functioning fine. Never had any problems with them, they are not leaking, oil gets changed every 100 hours, so I don't see the need for taking them apart.
The quote for the rebuild alone is 2000 euro, after that comes the installation and re-timing and oh yes.................I have 2 of these pumps.
So glad to find out I can basically keep those 5000 euro (in total) in my pocket and exchange the parts myself for 250 euro max (for 2 pumps).
Is it just me who always finds these mechanics that want to overhaul your engines when you just come for some cleaning or does this happen to others as well ?
Just wondering.
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01-30-2022, 08:35 AM
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#33
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Guru
City: Edgewater, MD
Vessel Name: Catalina Jack
Vessel Model: Defever 44
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,585
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mambo42
Am so glad I found this post about the refurbishing of the fuel pumps. Am having my cylinders, pistons, valves, injectors etc cleaned by a mechanic, for which he is charging me a very nice amount, but it needs to be done.
Today he came with the 'suggestion' to do a complete overhaul of the fuel pumps, so that I know for sure they are functioning fine. Never had any problems with them, they are not leaking, oil gets changed every 100 hours, so I don't see the need for taking them apart.
The quote for the rebuild alone is 2000 euro, after that comes the installation and re-timing and oh yes.................I have 2 of these pumps.
So glad to find out I can basically keep those 5000 euro (in total) in my pocket and exchange the parts myself for 250 euro max (for 2 pumps).
Is it just me who always finds these mechanics that want to overhaul your engines when you just come for some cleaning or does this happen to others as well ?
Just wondering.
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Nope. Not u usual. There is shortage of guessers quite willing to replace and hope.
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01-30-2022, 11:10 AM
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#34
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Guru
City: Vancouver
Vessel Name: Callisto
Vessel Model: 1974 Grand Banks 42 Classic, Hull 433
Join Date: Sep 2020
Posts: 578
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Thanks Dan - an excellent post !
Grateful FL120 owner,
Nick
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01-30-2022, 03:41 PM
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#35
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Guru
City: Trenton
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 1,521
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Nice write-up. Thanks.
__________________
Al Johnson
34' Marine Trader
"Angelina"
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01-30-2022, 04:04 PM
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#36
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Moderator Emeritus
City: Au Gres, MI
Vessel Name: Black Dog
Vessel Model: Formula 41PC
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 21,129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by catalinajack
Dave, good point. I measure the volume of oil drained from the pumps. Even at 150 hours I have never seen oil in volumes in excess of the initial fill. So, doesn't that mean fuel dilution is really not very much? I once talked with a FL120 owner who did not become aware of the oil change requirement for FOURTEEN years. He did find that there was a lot of fuel dilution when he changed the oil but with no apparent damage to the pump because he had continued to use that pump for several more years and was continuing to do so. This was not a lightly used vessel. I have a sense that there has never been a real test of how long these pumps would last with infrequent oil changes. Still, I will continue to change my oil every 150 hours. Easy enough to do and not costly.
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I have heard that scenario too. I have never owned 120s so I don’t know how important it is or isn’t. I was just passing along what Bob Smith said. I would certainly change the small amount of oil rather than having to rebuild the injection pump. Much cheaper. But everyone has to do what they feel comfortable with. 14 years seems like a long time to not have learned about your engines…
__________________
Boat Nut:
If you are one there is no explanation necessary.
If you aren’t one, there is no explanation possible.
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01-30-2022, 05:50 PM
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#37
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Guru
City: Ft Pierce
Vessel Name: Sold
Vessel Model: Was an Albin/PSN 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 28,119
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I change the injection pump oil when I change my regular engine oil.....if it is much more than 15/16 Oz, then I would be worried. Or if it smelled like diesel instead of hot motor oil.
In 3700 hours on the engine and changing oil between 125 and 200 hours...never saw a change in the injection pump oil.
The 50 hour interval I would guess is for older engines or you suspect an issue...otherwise what a waste of time.
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01-30-2022, 06:00 PM
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#38
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Guru
City: Montgomery
Vessel Name: Choices
Vessel Model: 36 Grand Banks Europa
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 896
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Very good write up. I have a 135.
So what is next?
__________________
36 Grand Banks Europa
Montgomery, TX
Blog: "grandbankschoices"
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01-30-2022, 06:03 PM
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#39
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Moderator Emeritus
City: Au Gres, MI
Vessel Name: Black Dog
Vessel Model: Formula 41PC
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 21,129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Choices
Very good write up. I have a 135.
So what is next?
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If I remember correctly the 135 is lubricated by the engine oil. So this doesn’t apply to the 135.
__________________
Boat Nut:
If you are one there is no explanation necessary.
If you aren’t one, there is no explanation possible.
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