Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 12-14-2016, 09:16 PM   #21
Veteran Member
 
City: Maryland
Country: USA
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 35
Tranny rebuild

After flushing 3 gallons of fresh tranny fluid through it is still milky. I was going to unwinterize and try running it in slip to better flush it out but have decided these things are too expensive to fool with and would rather do rebuild. My local independent transmission shop who is highly respected in community and has done work for me a couple times has stated $800 plus parts but hope that will be under $200 for rebuild kit.
I called and asked how much for Borg Warner velvet drive 72c 2:1. Instead of a never heard of it his response was I'll have to check with Harry but he does a few of those most years.
Doesn't seem out of line, so dragging out my assortment of come along, 1 ton chain hoist, truckers chains and saw horses to get this out of the engine room. Only thing I can't picture is if it's unbolted forward and aft does it have splined shaft that needs to be slid away from engine?
Just wondering.
Eddie Zuskin
Sea Ranger 47
Sent from my iPad
__________________
Advertisement

Eddieandgail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2016, 09:24 PM   #22
Guru
 
Datenight's Avatar
 
City: Noank, CT
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Datenight
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 555
[QUOTE=Eddieandgail;My local independent transmission shop who is highly respected in community and has done work for me a couple times has stated $800 plus parts but hope that will be under $200 for rebuild kit.
[/QUOTE]

A wise choice Eddie. I used a local transmission shop (non marine) for a BW rebuild several years ago. Total price was $750.00 sounds like you are in the ballpark.

Rob
__________________

__________________
North Pacific 39
Datenight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2016, 09:40 PM   #23
Enigma
 
RT Firefly's Avatar
 
City: Slicker?
Country: Bumpkin?
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,145
Greetings,
Atta boy Mr. Eddie. I agree with Mr. D. Good clean out and piece of mind. Watch your fingers and toes...
__________________
RTF
RT Firefly is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2016, 10:19 PM   #24
Guru
 
City: Boston
Country: US
Vessel Name: Adelante
Vessel Model: IG 30
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 717
Spray all bolts/nuts with PB Blaster.
Move the prop shaft back a few inches,
support trans
unbolt from bell housing
Move straight back a couple of inches, up and out.

There is a short splined shaft that fits into damper plate.
If you move it back at an angle you might bugger up the damper hub.
(Same with reinstallation.)
Inspect the damper plate. $100 part and easy to replace once trans is out.
SoWhat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2016, 11:10 PM   #25
Veteran Member
 
City: Maryland
Country: USA
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 35
SoWhat,
That helps to know that I should be able to push prop shaft back a few inches, resolves the logistics of how to not pull out at an angle. In my pile of supplies I'm throwing together is a stack of various sized short 2x4s to build up under tranny. Also saw mention of using threaded rod to aid in lining up a couple holes on re install, I've done that with a couple engine head projects to not mess up a new head gasket.
Eddie
Eddieandgail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2016, 06:45 AM   #26
Guru
 
kchace's Avatar
 
City: Brookline, NH
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Blue Heaven
Vessel Model: Albin 43 classic double cabin, twin 135 Lehmans
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 1,698
Yes, you can't take it out at an angle - straight back about 3" and it will disengage from the engine. If more than a couple thousand hours on it, most people recommend changing the damper plate while you're there. (The damper plate bolts to the engine flywheel and is what the transmission shaft actually engages into)

My engine had 2 studs which - left in - greatly aided re-installation. If you don't have those, a couple of pieces of 5" threaded rod will really help put it back in.

Ken
kchace is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2016, 01:10 PM   #27
Technical Guru
 
Ski in NC's Avatar
 
City: Wilmington, NC
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Louisa
Vessel Model: Custom Built 38
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 5,454
Second that about putting in a fresh damper plate, that's a wear item. Also new input shaft and output shaft seals. Input shaft seals seem to not last as long as rest of the gear and no fun dumping a sump load of fluid into the bilge, then burning up clutches.

Check reduction gear parts for wear. Check clutch condition. No need to rebuild, just clean up, inspect and reseal. These are robust gears and worth freshening up.
Ski in NC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2016, 05:37 PM   #28
Guru
 
City: kemah
Country: USA
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 1,135
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddieandgail View Post
Only thing I can't picture is if it's unbolted forward and aft does it have splined shaft that needs to be slid away from engine?
Just wondering.
Eddie Zuskin
Sea Ranger 47
Sent from my iPad

Yup, and the splines slides into the "damper plate" which looks a lot like a clutch plate. The damper plate bolts to the flywheel just as a clutch plate does. Gotta make sure you can slide the prop/shaft back far enough to pull the tranny out of the damper plate.
what_barnacles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2016, 06:19 PM   #29
Guru
 
boatpoker's Avatar
 
City: Whitby, Ontario
Country: Ontario
Vessel Name: DIRT FREE
Vessel Model: Benford Fantail 38
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 2,536
If installing a new damper plate consider a polyurethane unit. Much smoother, quieter and no rattling springs like the old style. Very pleased with mine
__________________
If you can live with the consequences, go for it - wg
Y'am what y'am an' thats' all that y'am - Popeye
I had an allergic reality - Jillie the Bean
boatpoker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-25-2016, 10:55 PM   #30
Veteran Member
 
City: Maryland
Country: USA
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 35
Got a friend to help me remove velvet drive after cooler failure and filled with milkshake oil. Interesting wrestling match getting it slid out along threaded rods to keep it level and boards underneath to keep it from dropping after clearing rods and still had a couple inches to spare of the 5" that prop shaft moved back. Got it between the 2 motors and a chain hoist into salon and on its way to Rehab.

A small oil puddle at bottom of Lehman bell housing so now will need to remove flywheel to replace rear engine seal. Further and further down the rabbit hole doing projects that are totally foreign. Anyone removed a flywheel and rear seal from SP135 Lehman?

Eddie
Eddieandgail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-26-2016, 06:44 AM   #31
Guru
 
City: kemah
Country: USA
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 1,135
It might not be worth it, either american diesel or bomac has a disclamer that their rebuilt lehmans arent guaranteed to not leak (I forget which one).
what_barnacles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-26-2016, 08:13 AM   #32
TF Site Team
 
Larry M's Avatar
 
City: JAX, FL
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Hobo
Vessel Model: Krogen 42-120
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 8,197
Quote:
Originally Posted by what_barnacles View Post
It might not be worth it, either american diesel or bomac has a disclamer that their rebuilt lehmans arent guaranteed to not leak (I forget which one).
Bomac has the disclaimer. They rebuilt our SP135. In prior discussions, Greg warned us about it. The leak is maybe an oz between oil changes it looks like. The alternative was to get a new crank at $2k plus. We're living with it.
Larry M is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-26-2016, 09:33 AM   #33
Veteran Member
 
City: Maryland
Country: USA
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 35
Rear seal

Surprised by suggestion to leave it alone. I had not seen any oil leaking under that motor for the 200 hours since I have owned it. About 2 tablespoons, at most, on bottom lip of bell housing when removed. I would be thrilled to not need to explore further so will check in with Brian on Tuesday.
Eddie
Eddieandgail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-26-2016, 10:20 AM   #34
Technical Guru
 
Ski in NC's Avatar
 
City: Wilmington, NC
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Louisa
Vessel Model: Custom Built 38
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 5,454
If I remember the Ford rear seal right, it is a split seal that would require dropping the oil pan and likely need lowering crank to access. Maybe more modern versions have a removable seal plate.
Ski in NC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-26-2016, 10:57 AM   #35
TF Site Team
 
Larry M's Avatar
 
City: JAX, FL
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Hobo
Vessel Model: Krogen 42-120
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 8,197
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ski in NC View Post
If I remember the Ford rear seal right, it is a split seal that would require dropping the oil pan and likely need lowering crank to access. Maybe more modern versions have a removable seal plate.
My parts manual shows a 2 piece rear seal and here are the instructions from my service manual.

I'm curious what Brian says about a leak.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	rear oil seal.jpg
Views:	36
Size:	103.9 KB
ID:	59897  
Larry M is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-26-2016, 11:23 AM   #36
Technical Guru
 
Ski in NC's Avatar
 
City: Wilmington, NC
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Louisa
Vessel Model: Custom Built 38
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 5,454
On one Lehman 120 it was leaking bad out the rear seal. Engine also had a good bit of blowby. The little vent in rocker cover and the whatever valve caused pressure to build in crankcase. Owner was not enthused by the prospect of a rebuild as otherwise, engine ran fine.

I welded on a larger fitting in rocker cover and used a larger diameter vent. No more pressure in crankcase. The oil leak out the rear seal was GONE.

The split rear seal is not really a seal, but a drip reduction device. Just kidding a little there...
Ski in NC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-26-2016, 11:53 AM   #37
Guru
 
City: Carefree, Arizona
Country: usa
Vessel Name: sunchaser V
Vessel Model: DeFever 48
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 8,248
Ski

Does the install slope angle play a role in rear seal leakage? And yes, IMHO most English design diesels rear main seals are just drip reduction devices as father time comes into play.
sunchaser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-26-2016, 12:11 PM   #38
Technical Guru
 
Ski in NC's Avatar
 
City: Wilmington, NC
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Louisa
Vessel Model: Custom Built 38
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 5,454
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunchaser View Post
Ski

Does the install slope angle play a role in rear seal leakage? And yes, IMHO most English design diesels rear main seals are just drip reduction devices as father time comes into play.
It may. But best results come from minimizing crankcase pressure. And that is easier than changing engine angle!!

Also make sure you are not running with too high of an oil level. The pan is pretty deep, so doubt crank is contacting oil level, but that is on the list.

There is a "slinger" ring between last main bearing and seal area, this is supposed to throw oil away from seal. If there is no pressure or even a slight vacuum in crankcase, it won't leak even if there is no seal at all!! Which may be closer to the truth on many engines.

Airsep filters work by applying a slight suction on crankcase. Not sure it would work on one of these as airflow is pretty low.
Ski in NC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-26-2016, 01:25 PM   #39
Guru
 
City: Boston
Country: US
Vessel Name: Adelante
Vessel Model: IG 30
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 717
As others have mentioned, replacing the rear seal is a major job.
I would simply remove the bottom bolt from the bell housing. Any oil getting past the rear seal will then drip out. A few tablespoons is not worth worrying about.
SoWhat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-26-2016, 04:09 PM   #40
TF Site Team
 
Larry M's Avatar
 
City: JAX, FL
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Hobo
Vessel Model: Krogen 42-120
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 8,197
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoWhat View Post
...I would simply remove the bottom bolt from the bell housing. Any oil getting past the rear seal will then drip out. A few tablespoons is not worth worrying about.
The SP135 actually has a drain plug just forward of the lower bell housing bolts. I asked the rebuilder to leave it out. He already had.
__________________

Larry M is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:22 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012
×