Mechanic Charges for failed work

[RBunz]

I recently had a cylinder go bad on my diesel. Mechanic troubleshoots it and saws his shop can do the rebuild. He has the boat taken to a yard, hauled and removes the engine. He is not able to identify the root cause but rebuilds the damage cylinder, has injectors checked, etc. Reassembles engine and during the run up the engine fails.

He is now asking for quite a bit of money to continue to work on it. I believe in letting the experts do what they do best so not have pushed them on time or doing it cheap. I am also a small business owner and understand he has quite a bit of money in the repair but I don't have a running engine. So what should I pay him for at this point in the project??

Thanks
RB

 

[DavidM]

I think that YOU as the owner need to find the root cause of the failure. You do this by asking for the advice of pros. Post on boatdiesel where the pros hang out.

Did he really check the injectors? Maybe a hosed injector took the first cylinder out and will continue to take repaired cylinders out until fixed.

David

 

[ulysses]

Was the second failure in the same cylinder?

 

[ksanders]

This is really a tough one.

If the original cylinder failed in my opinion the shop bears the burden of making it right, so any labor after the original fix he should eat.

If any other part of the engine failed not related to his work then it's your engine, your money.

My problem with this whole thing is why go through all the work to pull an engine and not completely overhaul it, including the accessories???

That part makes little sense to me. Labor is your big cost, and you've already got it out and torn down, why not just do the job right and have a new engine out of the deal.

 

[timjet]

I had the same decision 2 years ago when I blew the #3 cylinder in my Cummins B series diesel. There was no doubt why this happened and the mechanic that removed the head to inspect the cylinder offered a price to rebuild the engine with no warranty. A certified Cummins rebuild is about 3 times as much with a 2 year warranty.
I choose the certified Cummins rebuild and have had no regrets. After the installation a Cummins rep certified the installation and warrantied the work.

 

[ksanders]

I had the same decision 2 years ago when I blew the #3 cylinder in my Cummins B series diesel. There was no doubt why this happened and the mechanic that removed the head to inspect the cylinder offered a price to rebuild the engine with no warranty. A certified Cummins rebuild is about 3 times as much with a 2 year warranty.
I choose the certified Cummins rebuild and have had no regrets. After the installation a Cummins rep certified the installation and warrantied the work.

Exactly!

I even think the original failure, and the cost to repair might be covered under a all risk insurance policy.

 

[BandB]

I had the same decision 2 years ago when I blew the #3 cylinder in my Cummins B series diesel. There was no doubt why this happened and the mechanic that removed the head to inspect the cylinder offered a price to rebuild the engine with no warranty. A certified Cummins rebuild is about 3 times as much with a 2 year warranty.
I choose the certified Cummins rebuild and have had no regrets. After the installation a Cummins rep certified the installation and warrantied the work.

Absolutely. And to the original OP, I'd have to ask, what certifications did the mechanic have on the engine you were getting rebuilt? What type warranty did he give on the contract?

To your question as to what to pay, it's really dependent on what your contract with the mechanic says. If you don't have a contract, don't have a warranty, and he wasn't certified, then it seems to me you're paying hourly and owe for his time. I'd hope he'd negotiate if he fails to do this.

 

[BruceK]

As I read it, the mechanic had 2 tasks:
1. Diagnose the fault, and
2. Repair the fault
If the engine failed after effecting the repair he advised and executed, he got one or other, or maybe both, wrong. (Of course this excludes the emergence of a new unrelated fault, but that requires an unlikely high level of coincidence).
I think this needs more information. "A cylinder going bad" is vague, what happened, what was found on disassembly, what was done to repair it, what failed second time around? What discussion went with authorizing the work?
A mechanic has to work in a good and workmanlike manner, exercising due care and skill in his work. If he doesn`t he doesn`t deserve to get paid for what (if anything) he messes up, there is a failure of consideration (you didn`t get anything of value for your $) and he should proceed to get it right, without further expense to you. But, as above, it depends on the facts.(Note, US law may differ from here, but the above is quite basic.)

 

[what_barnacles]

He is now asking for quite a bit of money to continue to work on it. I believe in letting the experts do what they do best so not have pushed them on time or doing it cheap. I am also a small business owner and understand he has quite a bit of money in the repair but I don't have a running engine. So what should I pay him for at this point in the project??

Thanks
RB

Pay him for services rendered and run dragging the boat behind you.

 

[kapnd]

If you have a contract with the mechanic, you must pay.
If you want help with the mechanical stuff, post up more info.
What brand/size of boat and motor, hours, previous problems etc.
I must say that many production boats come with horribly executed exhaust systems that put the motor on the edge of disaster from day 1.
Most of the "failed cylinder" cases I have seen are a result of salt water ingestion.
If the repair of same is completed without correcting exhaust system problem, expect same failure again soon!

 

[RBunz]

I lost #6 cylinder. Ended up with a scuffed cylinder wall and rings must have failed as the crankcase pressure blew all the oil out of the crankcase. There was no evidence of salt water intrusion. It is a turbo engine. The engine was broken down to a bare block. The mechanic said all oil passages were check and injectors sent out to Seattle Injector. Other than that no real issues were found.

As for the second failure, the engine has not been pulled but everyone is suspecting the same cylinder.

//Rick

 

[Ski in NC]

Give all the details. So far, no where near enough to help. What engine, what hp, what happened, diagnosis, what was done for repair, on and on. More details, more help will come.

Keep in mind that baffling things can cause engines to fail. A very good mechanic can assess the failure, do a repair, and then the sneaky cause may rear up and bite again. Not every failure has a cause that has a tattoo on it's forehead!!

Been there, done that.

 

[BruceK]

If failure 2 reprises failure 1, the diagnosis was wrong or the repair was ineffective/missed something. What engine is it? If it is a Lehman you should be talking to Brian Smith of American Diesel.
You need to establish what went wrong the second time, a decent mechanic would be as curious as anyone, and thinking hard about how to get it right, if you give him the chance. He should be making the running on this, it`s an engine he repaired and it blew up immediately.

 

[Pau Hana]

Exactly!

I even think the original failure, and the cost to repair might be covered under a all risk insurance policy.

Depending on the "rest of the story" this is exactly correct.

 

[fstbttms]

Wh did the boat have to be hauled to remove the engine?

 

[CPseudonym]

Wh did the boat have to be hauled to remove the engine?

I've read this thread four times and still cannot comprehend the volume of information missing from this discussion. David was right in his first line of post 2, the OP needs to ascertain the exact cause of the failure before spending another dime.

 

[kapnd]

OK, lets do it this way:

Is the motor green?
Does it have a wet exhaust exiting at the transom?

Oops, that was two, I still got 18 left, and I think I can get to the bottom of this with some straight answers!

 

[BruceK]

It`s RBunz`s problem. Perhaps he wanted to vent rather than get "advice".
This is the second odd form of posting running just now.

 

[Scary]

Since nobody here knows what caused the failure including your mechnic, lets assume the repair restored your engine go the same or better condition than it was in before failure. It would be to me the problem is caused by something out side of the engine. Like restricted water flow, you stated number 6 the hottest cylinder in a in line engine. Partially blocked oilcooler, restricted ses strainer, over proped , foweled prop, restricted exhuast flow. The list goes on. Circulating pump, plugged waterjacket with sand, seawater pump. What did you askthe mechanic to do. If it was to rebuild the engine, he did that. If it was to analyse your problem and fix it that's a different issue. If you told him to rebuild the then you need to pay him. If you told to fix whatever caused the problem and rebuild the engine than it should be on his dime. It as if you bought a new sea water pump and installed it because the last one failed. The new one fails emidiately because because the sea strainer is plugged. Who's fault is that, not the store you just bought the new pump from.









,

 

[BandB]

As for the second failure, the engine has not been pulled but everyone is suspecting the same cylinder.

//Rick

That sentence by itself is enough to scare me. Who is everyone? Suspecting? Sounds to me like too much "everyone" and "suspecting" already instead of "a certified and well respected professional" and "knowing with reasonable certainty after in depth analysis and examination."

 

[BruceK]

TF seems keener to solve the issue than the OP. Absent the facts its a wasted effort.

 

[BandB]

TF seems keener to solve the issue than the OP. Absent the facts its a wasted effort.

I think we've asked questions or posed issues he just doesn't want to respond to. That's fine. Just limits our ability to advise.

 

[skipperdude]

Not enough information if it's a bad cylinder you repair the cylinder. bore sleeve it new rings. You may want to magma flux the head. if you have it torn down that far and can't find the problem. find a new mechanic. It's a Diesel engine it's not that complicated.

 

[gaston]

I recently had a cylinder go bad on my diesel. Mechanic troubleshoots it and saws his shop can do the rebuild. He has the boat taken to a yard, hauled and removes the engine. He is not able to identify the root cause but rebuilds the damage cylinder, has injectors checked, etc. Reassembles engine and during the run up the engine fails.

He is now asking for quite a bit of money to continue to work on it. I believe in letting the experts do what they do best so not have pushed them on time or doing it cheap. I am also a small business owner and understand he has quite a bit of money in the repair but I don't have a running engine. So what should I pay him for at this point in the project??

Thanks
RB

You both stuffed up how I would have approached the problem
1 Strip
2 Find
3 Quote
4 Repair
5 Assemble and run
6 Repair ok pay what was quoted
7 Still not working mechanic's problem
8 Get on a forum

 

[Wxx3]

This is really a tough one.

If the original cylinder failed in my opinion the shop bears the burden of making it right, so any labor after the original fix he should eat.

If any other part of the engine failed not related to his work then it's your engine, your money.

My problem with this whole thing is why go through all the work to pull an engine and not completely overhaul it, including the accessories???

That part makes little sense to me. Labor is your big cost, and you've already got it out and torn down, why not just do the job right and have a new engine out of the deal.

I think Kevin is right on. the fact that you asked the mechanic to DIAGNOSE and CORRECT puts the onus on him.

No Cure; No Pay

When I am trying to save money, i may do do the diagnose, and tell someone what to replace, but then if my diagnose is wrong, I pay for the work no matter what.

Same thing with providing parts. If I provide the part and the part is defective, I must pay twice for the work.

 

[RBunz]

All,

I have been busy with work so haven't been on the forum. So for those who said I wasn't interested, not the case.

I agree with the last post - No cure - no pay. This is what I have basically worked out with the mechanic. I have paid for the haul-out and pulling the engine from the boat. But beyond that I will not pay any more until the engine issues are resolved.

In the mean time I have also reached out to Volvo to gain access to the local rep and his engineering resources. The engine is coming out and going to a local factory authorized shop and we will find the root cause or its not going back in.

//Rick

 

[Ski in NC]

So what engine is it and what happpened? I do failure analyis for a living and threads like this pique my curiosity!!

 

[RBunz]

The engine is a Volvo TAMD41P turbo diesel. We apparently lost piston #6. Upon breaking the engine down we had a scuffed cylinder (lost the rings???) and the mechanic could not find anything else wrong.

//Rick

 

[shufti]

How many hours on the motor, RBunz? Just out of interest is all - TAMD41A's in mine.

 

[RBunz]

The engine had 1,550 hours on it. Pretty young for a diesel.