Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 12-11-2015, 07:50 PM   #21
Master and Commander
 
markpierce's Avatar
 
City: Vallejo CA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Carquinez Coot
Vessel Model: 2011 Seahorse Marine Coot hull #6
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 10,265
Replaced mine after three years and 375 hours.

__________________
Advertisement

__________________
Kar-KEEN-ez Koot
markpierce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2015, 09:27 PM   #22
TF Site Team
 
Peter B's Avatar
 
City: Brisbane
Country: Australia
Vessel Name: Lotus
Vessel Model: Clipper (CHB) 34 Sedan/Europa style
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 6,670
Send a message via Skype™ to Peter B
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dougcole View Post
OK, I checked the entire cooling system; that is: strainer, supply hose to pump, pump, supply hose to first HE, upstream end of HE (screened), downstream end of HE (also screened), hose to transmission cooler, both side of transmission cooler (really small tubes here), hose to oil cooler, both sides of oil cooler, and upstream end of HE on top of oil cooler (not sure what that one does but it is screened as well). Next step from here is out through the exhaust. No vanes.

Maybe they migrated downstream to the strainer basket and I dumped them when I was cleaning the basket?

Where else could they be?
Why all the angst..? I would have stopped at the, 'if the water flow is adequate and they are running at normal temps, what does it matter, they were not causing any issue', stage, and left it at that...but I'm from Downunder. We're more laid back.

As it happens you've gone to all that trouble disconnecting all the logical connections, and they are not there. Therefore your 'dropped back into strainer' theory might be right - ok - no problem...or they had been ground down so much they passed through - again, no problem, other than all that effort you went through. Just have cuppatea and relax...
__________________

__________________
Pete
Peter B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2015, 09:59 PM   #23
Guru
 
kchace's Avatar
 
City: Brookline, NH
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Blue Heaven
Vessel Model: Albin 43 classic double cabin, twin 135 Lehmans
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 761
Quote:
Originally Posted by AKDoug View Post
So here is tidbit of information for those in colder climates. The propylene glycol based antifreeze will harden your impellers (neoprene rubber) if you winterize the raw water system with what you run into your potable water systems. They do make nitrile rubber impellers that tolerate propylene glycol but the recommendation is to use ethylene glycol to winterize the raw water system if you have neoprene impellers. I had the impeller in my toilet harden so much from winterizing that the 12V system couldn't turn the impeller in it's housing. An impeller change immediately restored the toilet and I now use nitrile in the toilet. The engine has massive power to turn the impeller so rather than stopping the places just become brittle and break off in chunks or pieces. Good to know.
As an engineer I had to look this up. According to the very comprehensive compatibility chart I consulted, Propylene Glycol is completely compatible with neoprene. I always use Propylene Glycol for winterizing engines and toilets and have never had an issue. However, I always make sure the glycol I buy is rated for potable water AND engines because some winterizing glycol formulas include alcohol which IS bad for neoprene. Perhaps you used something like that when you had that problem.

Ken
kchace is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2015, 08:31 AM   #24
Guru
 
No Mast's Avatar
 
City: Atlantic Highlands, NJ
Country: US
Vessel Name: Moana Huaka'i
Vessel Model: Selene 53
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 816
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northern Spy View Post
This is bad advice.


Why I love to read the forum, even if most threads I don't post to. Always something to learn. Thanks for the clarification Spy. Always thought that was a good idea, now I know it wasn't.
No Mast is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2015, 08:35 AM   #25
Guru
 
jleonard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,740
100% correct Spy.
jleonard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2015, 10:16 AM   #26
Guru
 
hollywood8118's Avatar
 
City: Port Townsend Washington
Country: USA
Vessel Name: " OTTER "
Vessel Model: Ocean Alexander Europa 40
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,482
I always change out to a new impeller every spring.. we rarely use the boat in winter so I let it sit for the occasional use.

Change it with new in the spring.. very cheap insurance.

HOLLYWOOD
hollywood8118 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2015, 11:40 AM   #27
Guru
 
Northern Spy's Avatar
 
City: Powell River, BC
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Northern Spy
Vessel Model: Nordic Tug 26
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,671
I just reread my post. A bit rude, methinks. I live in a technical world, and forget that others don't sometimes.

Earlier in the day, I was writing a report on hydrocarbon damage to a chlorobutyl rubber lined vessel. I actually have chunks of broken rubber at my desk.

Next door my peer is struggling with the failure of nitrile progressive cavity pump stators due to oil swelling.

Sorry!
Northern Spy is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2015, 12:31 PM   #28
Guru
 
Bacchus's Avatar
 
City: Seneca Lake NY
Country: US
Vessel Name: Bacchus
Vessel Model: MS 34 HT Trawler
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,409
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northern Spy View Post
I just reread my post. A bit rude, methinks. I live in a technical world, and forget that others don't sometimes.
N Spy...
Appreciate the voice of technical experience.
This new learning for me.
The yard does my Yan diesel & gennie winterizing...never thought to even ask what they use....but I will.
In our fresh water world impellers run around 4-5 seasons w\o a problem.
I looked the specs for my Johnson pump impeller and the list it as MC97 any idea what that really is? I couldn't find a mat'l spec.

I've used prop glycol and\or alcohol based AF in RV and boat FW and heads to winterize w no seal problems...never even thought to explore mat'l compatibility.
Thanks.

Don
'08 MS 34HT
"Bacchus"
__________________
Don
MS 34 HT Trawler
"Bacchus"
Bacchus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2015, 12:38 PM   #29
Guru
 
AKDoug's Avatar
 
City: Kenai, Alaska
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Melanie Rose
Vessel Model: 1999 Willard PH
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 572
Quote:
Originally Posted by kchace View Post
As an engineer I had to look this up. According to the very comprehensive compatibility chart I consulted, Propylene Glycol is completely compatible with neoprene. I always use Propylene Glycol for winterizing engines and toilets and have never had an issue. However, I always make sure the glycol I buy is rated for potable water AND engines because some winterizing glycol formulas include alcohol which IS bad for neoprene. Perhaps you used something like that when you had that problem.

Ken
That information is from a technical article published in Practical Sailor newsletter on winterization and compatibility of fluids with equipment. I defer to their professional expertise on the subject, but did in fact have my two year old toilet impeller swell and seize in the housing after using the pink RV antifreeze to do my winterization. I got away with it for a year and then had to replace the impeller. The local supply (Redden Marine) was well aware of the issue and had nitrile impellers in stock.
AKDoug is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2015, 01:27 PM   #30
TF Site Team
 
Larry M's Avatar
 
City: JAX, FL
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Hobo
Vessel Model: Krogen 42-120
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 5,745
Quote:
Originally Posted by hollywood8118 View Post
I always change out to a new impeller every spring.. we rarely use the boat in winter so I let it sit for the occasional use.

Change it with new in the spring.. very cheap insurance.

HOLLYWOOD
Yup. We change ours every year on our schedule, at the dock and in a cool engine room. It only takes 15 minutes.
Larry M is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2015, 02:01 PM   #31
Senior Member
 
City: Great Lakes
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: NONE
Vessel Model: NONE
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 435
I have had similar experience as AKDoug, winterizing your Jabsco head with pink plumbers antifreeze is a guarantee you will be replacing the seals, choker & flapper in the spring. Took two or three years putting kits in every spring before I finally clued in. Raised holy hell with Jabsco who pretty much suggested I should move to a warmer climate. Interestingly their repair kits now come with a warning not to use alcohol based antifreeze.
Capt Kangeroo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2015, 02:43 PM   #32
Guru
 
Dougcole's Avatar
 
City: Carrabelle, FL
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Morgan
Vessel Model: '05 Mainship 40T
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 800
It's about a 2.5 hour job to do both motors on my boat. Only way to get the imoeelers out is to pull the pump. Access to port side is difficult. One of the four nuts holding the pumps on is a bear to reach.

It's not a job I want to do more than is required for good maintainence.
Dougcole is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2015, 02:52 PM   #33
Guru
 
AKDoug's Avatar
 
City: Kenai, Alaska
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Melanie Rose
Vessel Model: 1999 Willard PH
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 572
Likewise. I used to change the impeller every year, or turn it around and run it the other direction if it still felt supple. With my little Yanmar I literally have to crawl into the bilge and under the deck to reach the port side to get to the pump cover. No way to do it from above, as the access hatch is set slightly to stbd since everything else that you usually and regularly access is on the right side of the engine.
AKDoug is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2015, 03:31 PM   #34
Guru
 
Northern Spy's Avatar
 
City: Powell River, BC
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Northern Spy
Vessel Model: Nordic Tug 26
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,671
Best thing to do is initiate some kind of condition based maintenance. The problem is that you want to catch the potential failure before it is a failure. A few of the failure modes could be ( just brainstorming here): normal wear, dry running, hard object through vanes, abrasive sand in water, chemical attack, set vanes, hardened vanes, or increased wear due to higher discharge head.

Ideally, you'd pick an initial periodicity to change the first time. Observe the wear, and adjust the period for the next replacement. You could reinstall the impeller you just removed, but it can often be a chore to replace, so once your in there, you might as well replace.

For example, I changed mine after 12 months. It looked great. Changed the next one at 14 months. It too was fine. I kept adding two months each time. I am now at 22 month intervals. I am noticing that the fins are taking a set though. It will probably settle out at 24 months. I would probably decrease the periodicity, if I found sediment in my strainer, if I started and ran without my suction thruhull open, or if my running time hours increase significantly.

Did I save a lot of money or time? Nope. But I did decrease the potential for infant mortality, and I got to learn a little about my boat systems. I changed out screws to Allen head cap screws too. Makes it easy.

For those of you who change annually, good on ya! Periodic maintainance works too.
Northern Spy is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2015, 03:45 PM   #35
Enigma
 
RT Firefly's Avatar
 
City: Slicker?
Country: Bumpkin?
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 9,996
Greetings,
Mr. NS. "... Allen head cap screws..." Consider THAT idea stolen! Thanks.
__________________
RTF
RT Firefly is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2015, 04:06 PM   #36
Guru
 
Northern Spy's Avatar
 
City: Powell River, BC
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Northern Spy
Vessel Model: Nordic Tug 26
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,671
Quote:
Originally Posted by RT Firefly View Post
Greetings,
Mr. NS. "... Allen head cap screws..." Consider THAT idea stolen! Thanks.
Even better would be Robertson head machine screws. But I cannot find the proper size, even in Canada...
Northern Spy is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2015, 05:12 PM   #37
TF Site Team
 
FlyWright's Avatar
 
City: California Delta and SF Bay
Country: Sacramento, CA, USA (boat in Vallejo)
Vessel Name: FlyWright
Vessel Model: Marshall Californian 34 LRC
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 10,185
I went with allen head knurled SS screws on my RW pump. The screws start easily by hand, then using the allen wrench makes tightening in cramped quarters a cinch. Cheaper than the SpeedSeal kit...just pennies per screw at Ace Hardware.

After the pump rebuild, I went from this



to this

__________________
Al

Custom Google Trawler Forum Search
FlyWright is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2015, 05:22 PM   #38
Enigma
 
RT Firefly's Avatar
 
City: Slicker?
Country: Bumpkin?
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 9,996
__________________
RTF
RT Firefly is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2015, 08:56 PM   #39
Guru
 
koliver's Avatar
 
City: Saltspring Island
Country: BC, canada
Vessel Name: Retreat
Vessel Model: C&L 44
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 2,174
When I bought my boat in 1994, the PO left a bag of used impellers. I examined them critically, bending the vanes as much as possible by hand and looking for defects. None found. I checked the pumps annually, but never found that the impellers were causing any problems. When I took the HX apart, I did find some rubber bits, so some time ago there had been impeller failures. After 6 years I sold those engines, never having to replace an impeller. On my present engines I put in new impellers before I installed them in 2000. Since then, due to bearing and seal failures, I have replaced both pumps neither had any issues with their impellers. The new pumps each came with a brand new impeller, so I now have young impellers again, in 21 years never having had one fail.

IMHO annual replacement is over-maintaining. Good on you if you do it, but it probably isn't required unless you boat in harsh conditions.
koliver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2015, 12:46 AM   #40
TF Site Team
 
Peter B's Avatar
 
City: Brisbane
Country: Australia
Vessel Name: Lotus
Vessel Model: Clipper (CHB) 34 Sedan/Europa style
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 6,670
Send a message via Skype™ to Peter B
Maybe why my impellers last about 10 years. I don't do high mileage and we never have to winterise.
__________________

__________________
Pete
Peter B is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:40 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012