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Old 04-10-2013, 06:45 AM   #61
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"Hell's Angels image they'd have gone out of business long ago."

Folks that take a look will notice Brando and flicks like The Wild Ones , were NEVER on Harleys!!

Mostly Triumphs , as they were more reliable and not 700 lbs each.

"Wouldn't own a Harley. World's crappiest, over-priced motorcyle."

There is one area where we agree 1000%!

Don't the Chinese have a HD copy?

Or since its a 1913 design with no patent infringement , they wont bother?
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Old 04-10-2013, 09:33 AM   #62
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Yank'in chains????

Don't think so Peter. He's been consistent on this one for at least 6 years.

FF,
Yes they did have HD copy. It was called a Ricker or something like that. Wasn't popular for the same reasons the HD wasn't popular ...... at that time. In the 60s we all thought it was just a matter of time until HD went broke. At that time people bought motorcycles for what they could do. Like ride smooth, handle well, go fast and brake fast. People gave up on reality and function and bought into "cool". Still buy'in on the dumb. I don't even know if a "standard" and proper motorcycle exists anymore.
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Old 04-10-2013, 10:48 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by Peter B View Post
Eric, FF, and Art, when are you guys going to realise Marin is having a ball yanking your chains....
Psychology 101 teaches: “After strenuous attempts to reach an acceptable range of cooperative thought transfer in a debate; when it becomes clear that one person has no chance of enabling themselves to correctly process thought levels regarding the debatable items then those that do correctly process those thought levels should end the debate by stating “No Comment”!
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Old 04-10-2013, 10:55 AM   #64
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Yea Art and then we'd immediately start another debate.

I don't see a "no comment" yet so what are we debating about? Noise?
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Old 04-10-2013, 12:25 PM   #65
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Yea Art and then we'd immediately start another debate.

I don't see a "no comment" yet so what are we debating about? Noise?
Eric

For the debating participants and as well as the viewing audience much can be learned, i.e. brought to light in a topic-productive, open minded, learning-slanted debate - on any topic. Open minded debaters should always be ready to modify their thoughts on subject portions as the debate ensues. Even to the point of sometimes changing their stance on portions of a subject in the debate. To “win” a debate is not always best accomplished by trying to simply decimate the other debaters’ input but rather winning can often be accomplished by molding their input to a shape that makes your input stand out more at end of debate. Debate winners are similar to vote winners. The debate winner seldom if ever wins by 100%... winning by above 50% is usually the goal! In TF, our “debates” are a little different in that we are not actually trying to win anything, but rather we debate simply to help display experiences that can shed added light on one or more boating circumstance. In TF I’d label them more as “productive discussions” than truly being “hard-core debates”... at least that is for some of us who try to always keep an open mind on topic-productive learning experiences.

Although it is often fun and informative to debate with you and several others on TF, the "No Comment" comment I made was particularly regarding one forum contributor that has a mite too tall impression of his own wisdom... to the point of way too often closed eyes and ears regarding other persons' well learned and written about experiences.

Can you guess to whom I may be referring?? LOL

Regarding that person, although at times he too posts good info... too often if not agreeing with what he states or how he feels many debates result in others (who also have their own good input) needing to eventually end their participation in the debate with the feeling of "No Comment"! Imagine what would happen if this person could open mindedly contribute to debates about anything, such as fuels used, engine types... and the like... while not trying to prove “his” point by winning in debates via openly trying to intimidate others with sarcasms or innuendos or flat out insults. This fellow seems pretty smart, is obviously a good writer, and I believe could even become a good/fun debater. Heard tell he has a genius dog that he speaks with for advice... that animal’s intelligence in often stated by him during an attempted humiliating put down toward others. I don’t think the dog would like that if it was ever accounted to him. I’ve not noticed anyone on TF try to put this person down. But rather, we simply try to lift him up so he can eventually reach (see) beyond his incessant attitude of “I’m Right/Your’re Wrong – Period”. Guess he currently requires that feeling to sleep well. Maybe it stems from a childhood circumstance??? Hope he can break through!

Happy Boating Daze! - Art
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Old 04-10-2013, 12:38 PM   #66
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Sometimes it feels like some people must have the last word.
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Old 04-10-2013, 01:36 PM   #67
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All one has to do is go to the annual SD Harley roundup to understand the reality, perception and mystique of Harleys. As Marin would say and would be the SD response, "I really don't care about your ill founded opinion." Or go to a Trawler Fest filled with the "wrong" boats, or an airshow with antique death at every turn, or a ski hill where the latest in skiis and gear can be observed.

Harleys and the life style experience they offer are neat, fun and every bit as worthwhile to their followers as Bayliners, GBs and Willards are to their's. BTW, Brando and group were sissy riders so indeed needed lighter bikes, such as the Triumph Bonny I rode. Harleys were too big and mean for me and them.
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Old 04-10-2013, 01:47 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by Art;
Imagine what would happen if this person could open mindedly contribute to debates about anything, such as fuels used, engine types... and the like...
[/FONT][/COLOR]
When you post something that is worth bothering taking the time to debate I will debate it. That hasn't happened yet.

I don't debate about stuff for which the answer is obvious or irrelevant.
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Old 04-10-2013, 01:54 PM   #69
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When you post something that is worth bothering taking the time to debate I will debate it. That hasn't happened yet.

I don't debate about stuff for which the answer is obvious or irrelevant.
"... incessant attitude of “I’m Right/Your’re Wrong – Period”.

Marin provides proof in the putting!
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Old 04-10-2013, 01:56 PM   #70
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I'm sure everybody thinks they know of whom you speak Art but what is wrong w having the last word? Some people like you, Marin and I have lots of words. It's like having lots of ammunition. You're bound to get in the last shot if you've got much more ammo and having the last word here is mostly because you've got a lot to say. But ther'e are people that NEED to have the last word and need to "win" and do so (in their mind) buy having the last say as if the others all caved into their idea. I've found myself repeating myself and not liking myself for it and now I try hard not to go there. I remember ending an argument/debate w Marin taking the "no comment" (in other words) and he readily agreed. He obviously agreed. If a point has been made why make it again? And then there's another similar way of looking at it and that is to take stock of how many times have you made point A and how many times has the other guy made point B. Then if you not only get in the greatest number of statements and get in the last word too ..... You're da man by this/these methods and standards.

In the past I did care about the winning but now I don't have any points to tally as most everybody knows me well enough and I feel free to say mostly whatever I want and think. My age gives me that in the real world too. And here on TF I do think there is a lot less ego driven conversation and personal attacks/threats than there was 4 years ago.
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Old 04-10-2013, 01:58 PM   #71
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"... incessant attitude of “I’m Right/Your’re Wrong – Period”.

Marin provides proof in the putting!
That's because I AM right and you ARE wrong. Shoot, even my dog knows that, Art. Get with the program.
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Old 04-10-2013, 02:01 PM   #72
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Art I agree .... Marin ... YOU STEPPED IN IT.

And at the moment I've got in the last word!
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Old 04-10-2013, 02:03 PM   #73
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That's because I AM right and you ARE wrong. Shoot, even my dog knows that, Art. Get with the program.
"Heard tell he has a genius dog that he speaks with for advice... "

Woof Woof...
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Old 04-10-2013, 02:09 PM   #74
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Art I agree .... Marin ... YOU STEPPED IN IT.

And at the moment I've got in the last word!
The absolute worst thing a person can be in my book is boring. Better wrong than boring. The couple of people who have been on this forum who I've truly respected are anything but boring. Plus they've been right most of the time, too. Wonder if there's a connection between "not boring" and "right most of the time" .......?
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Old 04-10-2013, 04:14 PM   #75
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Marin is correct. Be an "A" or be an "F". Everything in between is a yawn in the entertainment world.
Peace, out, Boyscout(s)
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Old 04-10-2013, 05:06 PM   #76
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OK, now that we’re done with that stuff...

Let’s get back to manyboats / Eric’s OP topic: “Long lasting gas engines”

Can any type diesel (engine brought to full running condition, not including removal or installation) be rebuilt/replaced within near-$$-range of the following average cost for a gas engine:

1. Full rebuild around $1.2k in parts – Depending on ER’s location and if engine block needs boring, this effort can be accomplished by hoist-support of engine inside boat. Been there done that!
2. Short block new (factory original, crated) around $2.5K
3. Long block new (factory original, crated) around $3.5K

Please provide similar levels of cost for various types of diesel.

Thanks, Art
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Old 04-10-2013, 05:32 PM   #77
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We replace long block 454's in our assistance towing vessels...the last price for a Marine Power carbureted 454 complete marine package was over $10,000....rebuilt Cat 3208's go for well under that.

Not saying that gas can't be done cheaper but this discussion has really shown a lot of misconceptions between gas/diesel and the reason or not to repower with diesel.
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Old 04-10-2013, 06:36 PM   #78
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We replace long block 454's in our assistance towing vessels...the last price for a Marine Power carbureted 454 complete marine package was over $10,000....rebuilt Cat 3208's go for well under that.

Not saying that gas can't be done cheaper but this discussion has really shown a lot of misconceptions between gas/diesel and the reason or not to repower with diesel.
WOW - Over $10k for a 454 motor! I’m amazed... That includes all new periphery motor equipment and the installation, or just long block engine, i.e. block and heads?

$10K number does surprise me from what I previously heard, read, learned. Also, I should have mentioned in my post # 76 that I was referring to small block 5.7L engine. Just looked into a few links for gas engine quotes... these quotes are for std rotation engines, reverse rotation was approx $500 and $900 extra in reman and new engines respectively.

Also... I had no idea there were really well remanufactured diesel engines (Cat 3208’s) available for under $10K. Live and learn! What is the hp of rating on Cat 3208?

Long block 5.7L engines:

Remanufactured – GM 5.7L 250 hp $1695

Brand new – GM 5.7L 260 hp $2,499


Long block 7.4L engines:

Remanufactured – GM 7.4L 310 hp $2,495

Brand new – GM 7.4L 330 hp $6,299


Long block 8.1L engines:

Remanufactured – GM 8.1L 410 hp $4,495

Brand new – GM 8.1L 420 hp $7,999
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Old 04-10-2013, 06:57 PM   #79
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There is also a reman program for Cummins engines. Several people have suggested this to us as a potential candidate if we decide to proceed with our notion of repowering our GB. We have not looked into prices yet but have been told the cost is "very reasonable."
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Old 04-10-2013, 07:26 PM   #80
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I was the OP and said nothing about repowering w diesel or ?

The thread I envisioned was just to kick around gas engines in boats and perhaps how they'd measure up in a trawler. I really think if engines were chosen objectively and gasoline was't explosive most trawlers would have gas engines. Wanted to hear what others had for out of the box ideas for gas power. Kind of a "hmmmmm never thought about that but now that you mention it ...... ". Food for interesting thought.



Re Art's post the short block GM 350 is so cheap who would care how long it lasted. $4K every 10 years? Cheap compared to diesel.
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