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Old 06-29-2018, 05:15 PM   #1
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Libras Holy Place

During the Seahorse thread I thought it might be useful to throw in a pic of the drive train in Libra but did not want to stomp on that thread.
I am throwing a few pics of that very unusual (I think) and robust looking approach from transferring power from this (again unusual) power plant out to the prop. The first post will be the driveline including the auto greaser that runs lubricant out to the driveline beyond the bilge in the tube. That massive Masson gear must weigh 5K#!!
Also, while I am here, some random pics of the holy place to boot. Will split in a couple of replies.
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Old 06-29-2018, 05:57 PM   #2
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Some others from the holy place....

Power plant is Mercedes 403V10 keel cooled with dry exhaust.
Power management photo is here for those following the amp hour question thread.
The tank and bilge system is certainly not what I am used to.
The little shop is nice...too bad my skill set is not as useful as the space.
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Old 06-29-2018, 06:03 PM   #3
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Last one...
The hydraulics are something I appreciate here.
For steering with autopilot or the jog lever the default is an engine driven pump that might be seen in the picture of the gear.
To back up that pump is this 24 volt pump on the wall.
The thruster has a dedicated service not pictured here driven by a stout auxiliary pump powered by the Mercedes generator engine.
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Old 06-29-2018, 06:20 PM   #4
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Old 06-29-2018, 06:43 PM   #5
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How long did it take to wrap you head around all those systems? It's not my boat and my head is throbbing from the pics.

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Old 06-29-2018, 08:00 PM   #6
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Amazing pictures... Thanks!
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Old 06-29-2018, 08:01 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by O C Diver View Post
How long did it take to wrap you head around all those systems? It's not my boat and my head is throbbing from the pics.

Ted
Still working on it Ted and yes, Foxtrot, plenty challenging sober and no chance other wise.
But that is how I roll I guess. Forty years ago I started my eight year education for a career in a medical field that I knew nothing about. That meant learning at a pace akin to drinking from a fire hose. Then started several enterprises that I also knew nothing about so the beat went on with the hardest one currently underway and not out of the woods yet.
Big boats were totally new to me when I got Klee Wyck six years ago and Libra is a serious step up from that in terms of complexity, though Klee Wyck still seems like a piece of brilliant engineering to me. So, still learning about both and still having fun with it.

I suppose if I ever came to understand my surroundings completely I would be pretty bored.

What I appreciate about the learning with these Dutch boats is coming to understand the real genius in the design and fabrication/installation of the systems and how much went into making them both functional and robust. Those folks take their boating and boat building pretty seriously it seems to me.

Do I need it all? Don't suppose I do, but I still think it is very cool and fun to think and learn about.


I have run this engine in a piece of German made farm equipment on dry land. The module that ran the engine in that machine had two settings, idle and full revs. At full revs you could pull into a large field of corn and pour 12000# per MINUTE processed thru that machine and loaded on semis and you could do this all day long at 95 degrees ambient in tough dusty field conditions with no rest. It is common to harvest 2400 tons of this whole plant material in a day. I think it is a fun fact that that engineering is now what powers my boat. The engine and auxiliaries is just one example of the approach that was taken when this boat was built.
It has been 2+ challenging years no doubt, from the electrical conversion to new electronics to the study of her systems that remain as I purchased her.

I would do it again in a heartbeat and not sure I could ever pull the trigger on anything less.

Different strokes.....
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Old 06-29-2018, 08:10 PM   #8
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Holy Cheese Puffs, Captain! That's an ER!

If I make the trek up your way, can I get a ride?
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Old 06-29-2018, 08:28 PM   #9
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I know FlyWright. He's even got a bench vise. Be still my heart.
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Old 06-29-2018, 09:22 PM   #10
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Holy Cheese Puffs, Captain! That's an ER!

If I make the trek up your way, can I get a ride?
For sure on the boat ride Flywright. As a pilot, you are accustomed to putting your life at risk....this would be no different.

However, you must remember that when the Captain s off duty it is wheat beer, not that IPA crap. Bitter beer makes about as much sense as bitter cheese!

This from the land where out my back window hops grows as far as the eye can see!
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Old 06-29-2018, 09:44 PM   #11
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I know FlyWright. He's even got a bench vise. Be still my heart.
Thanks Janice....and did you spot the 200V air compressor mounted above the power plant for air tools, needle gun, all the fun stuff? Now if I could just learn to run those tools better I could get an even bigger kick out of that.

Best I could do today is Be relegated to fixing a valve that fills the toilet tank (household type toilets on Libra).....answering to a higher authority!
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Old 06-29-2018, 10:17 PM   #12
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Bill it looks like your engine isn’t in alignment w the shaft and thrust bearing. Is that a trick in reducing vibration?
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Old 06-30-2018, 01:24 AM   #13
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Bill it looks like your engine isn’t in alignment w the shaft and thrust bearing. Is that a trick in reducing vibration?
Willy, I think that is an illusion, a photographic artifact, if you are seeing left right deviation. There is a downward angle on the sliding tractor driveline section but not lateral.
There is absolutely no vibration from the main engine drive train. There is a little from the generator engine. That one is mounted on a leg stand that amplifies the moment I think but pretty subtle.
There is a low frequency slap when you stand outside on the aft deck underway which I think is the prop blades cutting through the low density water in the keel shadow. Seems like you could count that fast as the sound/feel but must be higher than that in frequency. The gear is 3:1 reduction and with three blade it should be same as rpm, right? Huge wheel on her.
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Old 06-30-2018, 11:32 AM   #14
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Quote:
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Thanks Janice....and did you spot the 200V air compressor mounted above the power plant for air tools, needle gun, all the fun stuff? Now if I could just learn to run those tools better I could get an even bigger kick out of that.

Best I could do today is Be relegated to fixing a valve that fills the toilet tank (household type toilets on Libra).....answering to a higher authority!
I missed that compressor set up. Your workshop is impressive. How's the lighting down there? So many holy places are dark. It is difficult to spot problems early in the shadowy confines of a dark bilge.

Did spot the top of your Racor though. Week after next I'll be installing a fuel polishing system on another boat. That will be fun.
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Old 06-30-2018, 12:17 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by klee wyck View Post
For sure on the boat ride Flywright. As a pilot, you are accustomed to putting your life at risk....this would be no different.

However, you must remember that when the Captain s off duty it is wheat beer, not that IPA crap. Bitter beer makes about as much sense as bitter cheese!

This from the land where out my back window hops grows as far as the eye can see!
OK, I'll stock up on some good heffeweisen before showing up!

Just saw this article and thought of our own Cheese-head. Cheers!

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.48990b94285a
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Old 06-30-2018, 01:12 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by klee wyck View Post
During the Seahorse thread I thought it might be useful to throw in a pic of the drive train in Libra but did not want to stomp on that thread.

I am throwing a few pics of that very unusual (I think) and robust looking approach from transferring power from this (again unusual) power plant out to the prop. The first post will be the driveline including the auto greaser that runs lubricant out to the driveline beyond the bilge in the tube. That massive Masson gear must weigh 5K#!!

Also, while I am here, some random pics of the holy place to boot. Will split in a couple of replies.


I have a slight variation on this theme in my Willard 36. The original owner had a custom drive line built and installed.
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The engine is a Perkins 4-236 with a 3:1 Velvet drive, mounted on extremely soft Lord rubber isolator. The unique part is the bronze housing seen at the extreme right (aft) of the photo. In this are two deep groove ball bearings as thrust bearings, and four rubber lip seals facing aft acting as the shaft seal. The space between is filled with Lubriplate grease. The small pump in the foreground meters spent raw cooling water into the space behind the shaft seals to lubricate the two cutless bearings behind the seals.

After a year of worrying about the condition and durability of this unique combination dripless shaft seal/thrust bearing I had the boat hauled and disassembled the unit. I found it absolutely pristine inside after 50 years.
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Reassembled with new u-joint kits, bearings and seals, and will monitor but not worry about it!

The result of this drive setup is an absolutely smooth vibration free system. The Perkins moves quite actively on its mounts at some (low) speeds, but this is only noticeable if you are looking at it, no vibration is transferred to the hull. Like Libra a very slight vibration is felt at the stern of the boat, but I assume this is the propeller blade passage on the rudder or deadwood. It is only noticeable if you intentionally try to detect it.

The absolutely dry bilge is a welcome feature.

I give the seal/thrust assembly one shot of grease every startup.

Bill
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Old 07-01-2018, 08:00 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Island Cessna View Post
I have a slight variation on this theme in my Willard 36. The original owner had a custom drive line built and installed.

After a year of worrying about the condition and durability of this unique combination dripless shaft seal/thrust bearing I had the boat hauled and disassembled the unit. I found it absolutely pristine inside after 50 years.
Attachment 78003

Reassembled with new u-joint kits, bearings and seals, and will monitor but not worry about it!

The result of this drive setup is an absolutely smooth vibration free system. The Perkins moves quite actively on its mounts at some (low) speeds, but this is only noticeable if you are looking at it, no vibration is transferred to the hull. Like Libra a very slight vibration is felt at the stern of the boat, but I assume this is the propeller blade passage on the rudder or deadwood. It is only noticeable if you intentionally try to detect it.

The absolutely dry bilge is a welcome feature.

I give the seal/thrust assembly one shot of grease every startup.

Bill
That s what I am talking about Cessna! Nice setup. You run across this stuff that someone thought long and hard about, selected the right material and design, and installed it to do what it was supposed to do. And there it is, several decades later, just as capable of performing its function as the day it went in. Where a lot of the world is filled with short shelf life junk, I stand in awe of this approach to building quality that stands the test of time.
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Old 07-01-2018, 08:17 PM   #18
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I went down this road a bit w my 25’ Albin.
Installed an Aqua Drive and it worked well. But probably not related to the drive system there was a rum rum rum harmonic vibration (mostly sound) that drove me nuts. Never found it’s source. Suspect it was hull skin related.

My Willard is smooth and I have no thoughts about thrust bearings and soft mounts. If I had lots of money I’d install an Aqua Drive or similar anyway as I feel it’s the best way to drive an inbd boat.
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