Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 08-12-2010, 07:38 PM   #21
Scraping Paint
 
City: -
Country: -
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,748
RE: Lehman Starting Issues

Quote:
AllanY wrote:

In saying that I could probably up the idle speed to 650rpm and I think that might solve the problem as we don't get the extremely cold weather here.

*Not sure I'd call it a "problem."* It's how you start a Lehman 120.* Even the manufacturer says to advance the throttle for starting.* *Everyone I knows who has one starts it this way.* I don't know if increasing the idle speed will make any difference to how the engine starts.* But it won't hurt to try I suppose.
__________________
Advertisement

Marin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2010, 05:50 AM   #22
TF Site Team
 
Peter B's Avatar
 
City: Brisbane
Country: Australia
Vessel Name: Lotus
Vessel Model: Clipper (CHB) 34 Sedan/Europa style
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 6,669
Send a message via Skype™ to Peter B
RE: Lehman Starting Issues

Marin wrote.....
"We've had the boat for twelve years and use it year round and while the engines could explode tomorrow they so far have started almost as soon as the starter begins to turn them."

So Marin, why can't you find just a wee bit of looove in your heart for such a faithful engine. Agricultural yes, but faithful, reliable, "trusty' even.....?

PS, Please don't feel the need to repeat all your feelings for the old FL120 and why, we know! LOL. God. I never thought I'd find myself using that expression, but it seems apt here.
__________________

Peter B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2010, 06:50 AM   #23
Guru
 
Keith's Avatar
 
Vessel Name: Anastasia III
Vessel Model: Krogen 42
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,716
RE: Lehman Starting Issues

When I was thinking about* buying my* boat, I asked lots of people about the Lehman 135. It was funny...every mechanic I talked to said "NO, don't buy that engine". Every owner I talked to said "Buy it! They are great engines!". I finally figured out that the mechanics don't like them because they never need fixing! Hahaha!
Keith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2010, 04:38 AM   #24
FF
Guru
 
FF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 16,525
RE: Lehman Starting Issues

I finally figured out that the mechanics don't like them because they never need fixing! Hahaha! biggrin

I have a bridge in Brooklyn you would love to own,,,
FF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2010, 09:07 PM   #25
Scraping Paint
 
City: -
Country: -
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,748
Lehman Starting Issues

Quote:
Peter B wrote:
So Marin, why can't you find just a wee bit of looove in your heart for such a faithful engine. Agricultural yes, but faithful, reliable, "trusty' even.....?
Since you asked.....* As I've said before and will not elaborate on again, by today's standards it is an absolutely crap diesel.* I don't care how long they run, it's a frickin' antique and it's only value is as a display in the Smithsonian Museum of American History.* Or more appropriately the Science Museum in London since it's a British relic.

The most revered engineer in Boeing history, Ed Wells, the "father of the B-17" and the man who got Boeing into the jet age, once repeated his favorite mantra to me--- "Life's too short to waste it working on propellers."* I paraphrase that with "Life's too short to waste it screwing around with Lehmans.* Unless you can't afford to replace them."

-- Edited by Marin on Tuesday 17th of August 2010 09:27:35 PM
Marin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2010, 04:08 AM   #26
FF
Guru
 
FF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 16,525
RE: Lehman Starting Issues

it's a frickin' antique

So what?

It is a great engine for folks that need what 2 or 3 gph can create as thrust.

Cheap to keep. And mostly reliable.

Like our 6-71 , antique fur shure , but the cost of swoping it out for a modern "efficient" engine would not be repaid in a dozen loop mud runs.

A "modern" engine in a newbuild cruising boat would be a hard choice , unless you are an electronic expert and want to travel with loads of spare brain boxes , or find a tin boat.

A mechanical engine can be repaired at far lower cost , but may not be Tier 2 .
FF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2010, 07:08 AM   #27
TF Site Team
 
Peter B's Avatar
 
City: Brisbane
Country: Australia
Vessel Name: Lotus
Vessel Model: Clipper (CHB) 34 Sedan/Europa style
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 6,669
Send a message via Skype™ to Peter B
RE: Lehman Starting Issues

Not to mention if lightning strikes, even if everything else fails, instruments fried, electrics burnt out, as long as you are still floating, the trusty Lehman will still keep running, while all the fancy common rail, electronically controlled 'modern' engines will not.......
Peter B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2010, 07:30 AM   #28
Curmudgeon
 
BaltimoreLurker's Avatar
 
City: Stoney Creek, MD
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Moon Dance
Vessel Model: 1974 34' Marine Trader Sedan
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,629
RE: Lehman Starting Issues

Quote:
Marin wrote:
I don't care how long they run,
I do.* As a matter 'o fact, their reliability and simplicity were key in my decision to seek out a boat that had the FL120.
BaltimoreLurker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2010, 02:16 PM   #29
Guru
 
Egregious's Avatar
 
City: Sunset Beach, NC
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Polly P.
Vessel Model: Monk 36
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 554
RE: Lehman Starting Issues

Marin, I think you are focused too much on the technology of the engine and might be ignoring some of the intangibles that add to an engine's value.* Sure by today's standards the technology of the FL is crude.* Sure they aren't as efficient.* How about simplicity and dependability?* Check.* Availability and cost of spare parts?* Check.* An installation base that breeds familiarity?* Check.

If anyone knows about IT, they might know that a language called COBOL had been introduced in the late 50s was hugely popular back in the day before microcomputers became so widespread.* But do you know that just a few short years ago, it was still a very popular language among companies with large IT organizations?* Yes, it can be considered "crap" compared with the new object oriented and graphics ready languages.* But when you need a bare bones language to process large numbers of records in batches, you still cannot beat COBOL for speed and simplicity.

That is just an analogy, but the point is that comparing a FL which is a marinized tractor motor to newer technology is about like comparing apples and oranges, or COBOL to Visual Basic.* Heck, I use a 12 year old IBM keyboard at work because of the tactile feedback (click), simple layout, and it can double for a weapon when wielded properly.***I won't use a new squish keyboard even if it is wireless, and has "quick launch" buttons, and whatever else.* It is old and it works better for me and I like it.* It has lived through coffee spills and temper tantrums and my hammer fingers.*

Some old stuff is just plain good.* You can call it crap but it is still good as long as you don't try to compare it to something else that is new and different.
Egregious is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2010, 02:53 PM   #30
TF Site Team
 
dwhatty's Avatar
 
City: Home Port: Buck's Harbor, Maine
Country: USA
Vessel Name: "Emily Anne"
Vessel Model: 2001 Island Gypsy 32 Europa (Hull #146)
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 2,733
RE: Lehman Starting Issues

The 70 yr old boat we just sold after 22 years of ownership has old tech twin Chrysler Nissan straight 6 cyl engines installed sometime in the early 70's. We had no idea how many hours there were on them when we bought in 1987 but we put over 2,000 hrs on them with no major problems. Had to replace risers a couple of times and one main oil seal. They are still running like champs according to the new owner. I live in fear of when the motherboard craps out in the middle of nowhere on our "modern" Cummins.
dwhatty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2010, 03:33 PM   #31
Guru
 
Codger2's Avatar
 
City: San Diego
Country: US
Vessel Name: "Sandpiper"
Vessel Model: 2006 42' Ocean Alexander Sedan
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 5,420
RE: Lehman Starting Issues

Have no fear Dave, knowing how you take care of your boat, that 330B is not going to crap out. It is a 330B isn't it? My mechanic says it is one of the best engines Cummins ever built.
Codger2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2010, 06:59 PM   #32
TF Site Team
 
dwhatty's Avatar
 
City: Home Port: Buck's Harbor, Maine
Country: USA
Vessel Name: "Emily Anne"
Vessel Model: 2001 Island Gypsy 32 Europa (Hull #146)
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 2,733
RE: Lehman Starting Issues

Quote:
SeaHorse II wrote:

Have no fear Dave, knowing how you take care of your boat, that 330B is not going to crap out. It is a 330B isn't it? My mechanic says it is one of the best engines Cummins ever built.
I can take care of the body. Its the electronic brain I worry about.

*
dwhatty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2010, 08:23 PM   #33
Scraping Paint
 
City: -
Country: -
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,748
Lehman Starting Issues

Quote:
Egregious wrote:

*

Some old stuff is just plain good.* You can call it crap but it is still good as long as you don't try to compare it to something else that is new and different.
Some people like clinging to the past.* I don't.* I compare everything to new--- cameras, cars, planes, boats, engines, shoes, lawnmowers.** Old is old.* New is new and new is all I consider worth having unless I can't afford it, in which case I will "settle" for old.***But that doesn't mean I like it, it just means I can't or won't pay to buy something new.* And being out on the water powered by pathetic antiques of engines is better than not being out on the water at all.

If money were not a concern I would NEVER consider a boat with Lehmans in it.* Ever.* TO me buying a boat with Lehmans when you don't have to is like saying "I want to drive around the world and I think I'll buy a Model A Ford*to do it in."* Unless one is an old engine enthusiast, like the folks who are into preserving old cars, I cannot see any point whatsoever in screwing around with old Lehman, Perkins, etc. engines unless that is all one is willing to pay for (like me) in which case putting up with them is better than nothing.

But there is nothing anyone can say that will convince me that a Lehman is worth spit as an engine in today's world based on it's actual merits.* Only its cost--- or lack of cost--- makes it worth bothering with.

Like all of us, I have a lot of old stuff.* Old cars, old truck, old boats, old house, and so on.* If we could spare the money, we'd replace every single item with brand new.* Except my electric guitar.* But that's because it's worth, many, many times more than a new one.* The same cannot be said for a Lehman engine.

I should add that the stereotype of electronically controlled engines being unreliable and impossible to fix is total BS.* I know a lot of people with "electronic" diesels in their boats and they are*as or more reliable than Lehmans, Perkins, etc.* I see many more posts in boating forums about "My Lehman (or Perkins or some other ancient engine) won't start," or has some other malady than I do people complaining about problems with their*modern engines.* And in the few cases where someone I know has had a problem with their electronic engine, the problem was diagnosed in seconds by a plug-in engine analyzer and the fix took about five minutes which is how long it took to remove one "black box" and install a new one.

FF talks about electronic engine control like it's some sort of new-fangled voodoo idea.* Virtually every car on the road today has an electronically controlled engine.* Hell, the engine in my 1987 BMW is controlled by a computer.* And it's been VASTLY more reliable and*trouble-free*than the simple, carbureted, non-electronic, "super reliable"*engine in our Ford F-250 pickup.


-- Edited by Marin on Wednesday 18th of August 2010 08:37:38 PM
Marin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2010, 10:33 PM   #34
Senior Member
 
AllanY's Avatar
 
City: Tin Can Bay, Queensland, Australia
Country: Australia
Vessel Model: Cheoy Lee, Trawler
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 171
RE: Lehman Starting Issues

Marian

You are starting to sound like a broken record.

Nobody is disputing that the Lehmans are an old engine but so are Gardeners, Perkins etc.

We see a lot of issues with the Lehmans 1. because they are getting old and 2. because there are a lot out there.

They are reliable, cheap to run and will more than likely get you home even when they are feeling unwell.

The newer computer controlled engines are also reliable quieter and sometimes but not necessarially more fuel efficient and most rely on turbo charging to get the grunt they need.

They will more than likely NOT get you home when they feel unwell as the computer may take over and deny you basic functions.

Not everyone has a diagnostic computer onboard to sort out the problems or carry a $2000 or more brain as a spare.

An engine that can be worked on by a novice whilst at sea is more preferable than one that needs a high tech workshop to fix.

I had an issue with my turbo charged nissan patrol diesel a while ago where every so often it would open the turbo gate and blow off a lot of unburnt fuel.

I took it to the dealer and he put his computer on it and said there was nothing amiss.

It continued to blow smoke and finally i found that there was coal dust on a screen in the air cleaner and after cleaning it the problem was solved. Computers cannot always tell you everything and they can be fooled.

If i had to repower tomorrow would i put in a new generation??
Probably however it would be with the realisation that I may no longer be able to fix it at sea.

Allan
AllanY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2010, 04:27 AM   #35
FF
Guru
 
FF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 16,525
RE: Lehman Starting Issues

I want to drive around the world and I think I'll buy a Model A Ford to do it in."

Sure , if the v"world " was the USA.

But cross the Sahara or run the Silk road and you might find new & unrepairable a problem.
Even most of South America might be behind a donkey tow.

Most boats are GRP , most cars and trucks are metal as are commercial fish folks..

A Fariday cage is required to keep stray electric (near buy lightning) from eating the brain box.

Additionally a very well charged batt setup is needed to even get the thing started, as the electric controls are very voltage sensitive.

We met a couple of "new" 60+ ft boats on our Loop run and one was on its 3rd brain box , the other only on the second. Under warantee there was no cost but waiting in a marina for a few days for a mechanic to come to them.

For a cruising boat that actually does not run from Marina to Marina , it could be a long wait.

IF you think the value of Bayliners drops in a year , what would you pay for a year old , out of warentee , $10,000 box eater?
FF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2010, 06:09 AM   #36
Senior Member
 
albin43's Avatar
 
City: Rochester, NY
Country: US
Vessel Model: Albin 43 Trawler
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 233
RE: Lehman Starting Issues

Quote:
AllanY wrote:

Marian

You are starting to sound like a broken record.

*
albin43 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2010, 09:12 AM   #37
Guru
 
Anode's Avatar


 
City: Missourah
Country: USA
Vessel Name: M/V Scout
Vessel Model: Sundowner Tug 30'
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 645
RE: Lehman Starting Issues

I think this thread is on the way to catching the "Choosing the right anchor" one.


Continue on.........
Anode is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2010, 09:19 AM   #38
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 272
Lehman Starting Issues

Quote:
Anode wrote:

I think this thread is on the way to catching the "Choosing the right anchor" one.


Continue on.........
*Well it still needs at least 12 more pages to catch that one!*


-- Edited by troy994719 on Thursday 19th of August 2010 09:20:05 AM
troy994719 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2010, 10:24 AM   #39
Curmudgeon
 
BaltimoreLurker's Avatar
 
City: Stoney Creek, MD
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Moon Dance
Vessel Model: 1974 34' Marine Trader Sedan
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,629
RE: Lehman Starting Issues

Quote:
Well it still needs at least 12 more pages to catch that one!

Maybe we can start the, "What's better, single or twin Lehmans?" discussion.
BaltimoreLurker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2010, 10:37 AM   #40
Guru
 
City: Carefree, Arizona
Country: usa
Vessel Name: sunchaser V
Vessel Model: DeFever 48
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 6,369
RE: Lehman Starting Issues

Right on Marin. For the past*20 years or more cars "with computers" have become so reliable that even Chrysler can offer a 100K warranty on engines.

Further, today's new marine diesels must meet US and EU emission standards. Not to mention including top notch filtration for those high pressure injection systems.

Now, on to Kwatsi Bay
__________________

sunchaser is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Starting battery - need your input Fotoman Power Systems 31 09-30-2011 03:57 AM
Concrete Ballast Issues Capt Dan Willard | Fales 4 07-21-2011 09:41 PM
Help with tach issues??? phishown General Discussion 3 04-20-2011 08:09 AM
Racor Issues........ hollywood8118 Power Systems 3 09-08-2010 01:41 PM




All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:15 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012