Lehman Starting Issues

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Have no fear Dave, knowing how you take care of your boat, that 330B is not going to crap out. It is a 330B isn't it? My mechanic says it is one of the best engines Cummins ever built.
 
SeaHorse II wrote:

Have no fear Dave, knowing how you take care of your boat, that 330B is not going to crap out. It is a 330B isn't it? My mechanic says it is one of the best engines Cummins ever built.
I can take care of the body. Its the electronic brain I worry about.

*
 
Egregious wrote:

*

Some old stuff is just plain good.* You can call it crap but it is still good as long as you don't try to compare it to something else that is new and different.
Some people like clinging to the past.* I don't.* I compare everything to new--- cameras, cars, planes, boats, engines, shoes, lawnmowers.** Old is old.* New is new and new is all I consider worth having unless I can't afford it, in which case I will "settle" for old.***But that doesn't mean I like it, it just means I can't or won't pay to buy something new.* And being out on the water powered by pathetic antiques of engines is better than not being out on the water at all.

If money were not a concern I would NEVER consider a boat with Lehmans in it.* Ever.* TO me buying a boat with Lehmans when you don't have to is like saying "I want to drive around the world and I think I'll buy a Model A Ford*to do it in."* Unless one is an old engine enthusiast, like the folks who are into preserving old cars, I cannot see any point whatsoever in screwing around with old Lehman, Perkins, etc. engines unless that is all one is willing to pay for (like me) in which case putting up with them is better than nothing.

But there is nothing anyone can say that will convince me that a Lehman is worth spit as an engine in today's world based on it's actual merits.* Only its cost--- or lack of cost--- makes it worth bothering with.

Like all of us, I have a lot of old stuff.* Old cars, old truck, old boats, old house, and so on.* If we could spare the money, we'd replace every single item with brand new.* Except my electric guitar.* But that's because it's worth, many, many times more than a new one.* The same cannot be said for a Lehman engine.

I should add that the stereotype of electronically controlled engines being unreliable and impossible to fix is total BS.* I know a lot of people with "electronic" diesels in their boats and they are*as or more reliable than Lehmans, Perkins, etc.* I see many more posts in boating forums about "My Lehman (or Perkins or some other ancient engine) won't start," or has some other malady than I do people complaining about problems with their*modern engines.* And in the few cases where someone I know has had a problem with their electronic engine, the problem was diagnosed in seconds by a plug-in engine analyzer and the fix took about five minutes which is how long it took to remove one "black box" and install a new one.

FF talks about electronic engine control like it's some sort of new-fangled voodoo idea.* Virtually every car on the road today has an electronically controlled engine.* Hell, the engine in my 1987 BMW is controlled by a computer.* And it's been VASTLY more reliable and*trouble-free*than the simple, carbureted, non-electronic, "super reliable"*engine in our Ford F-250 pickup.


-- Edited by Marin on Wednesday 18th of August 2010 08:37:38 PM
 
Marian

You are starting to sound like a broken record.

Nobody is disputing that the Lehmans are an old engine but so are Gardeners, Perkins etc.

We see a lot of issues with the Lehmans 1. because they are getting old and 2. because there are a lot out there.

They are reliable, cheap to run and will more than likely get you home even when they are feeling unwell.

The newer computer controlled engines are also reliable quieter and sometimes but not necessarially more fuel efficient and most rely on turbo charging to get the grunt they need.

They will more than likely NOT get you home when they feel unwell as the computer may take over and deny you basic functions.

Not everyone has a diagnostic computer onboard to sort out the problems or carry a $2000 or more brain as a spare.

An engine that can be worked on by a novice whilst at sea is more preferable than one that needs a high tech workshop to fix.

I had an issue with my turbo charged nissan patrol diesel a while ago where every so often it would open the turbo gate and blow off a lot of unburnt fuel.

I took it to the dealer and he put his computer on it and said there was nothing amiss.

It continued to blow smoke and finally i found that there was coal dust on a screen in the air cleaner and after cleaning it the problem was solved. Computers cannot always tell you everything and they can be fooled.

If i had to repower tomorrow would i put in a new generation??
Probably however it would be with the realisation that I may no longer be able to fix it at sea.

Allan
 
I want to drive around the world and I think I'll buy a Model A Ford to do it in."

Sure , if the v"world " was the USA.

But cross the Sahara or run the Silk road and you might find new & unrepairable a problem.
Even most of South America might be behind a donkey tow.

Most boats are GRP , most cars and trucks are metal as are commercial fish folks..

A Fariday cage is required to keep stray electric (near buy lightning) from eating the brain box.

Additionally a very well charged batt setup is needed to even get the thing started, as the electric controls are very voltage sensitive.

We met a couple of "new" 60+ ft boats on our Loop run and one was on its 3rd brain box , the other only on the second. Under warantee there was no cost but waiting in a marina for a few days for a mechanic to come to them.

For a cruising boat that actually does not run from Marina to Marina , it could be a long wait.

IF you think the value of Bayliners drops in a year , what would you pay for a year old , out of warentee , $10,000 box eater?
 
I think this thread is on the way to catching the "Choosing the right anchor" one.


Continue on.........
 
Anode wrote:

I think this thread is on the way to catching the "Choosing the right anchor" one.


Continue on.........

*Well it still needs at least 12 more pages to catch that one!*


-- Edited by troy994719 on Thursday 19th of August 2010 09:20:05 AM
 
Well it still needs at least 12 more pages to catch that one!


Maybe we can start the, "What's better, single or twin Lehmans?" discussion.
 
Right on Marin. For the past*20 years or more cars "with computers" have become so reliable that even Chrysler can offer a 100K warranty on engines.

Further, today's new marine diesels must meet US and EU emission standards. Not to mention including top notch filtration for those high pressure injection systems.

Now, on to Kwatsi Bay
 
AllanY wrote:

Marian

You are starting to sound like a broken record.
First of all, it's "MARIN" not Marian.* Marin like Marin County, California which is where I am from originally.

Second, I sound like a broken record because you guys keep asking me the same stupid question over and over, which is why don't I like Lehmans.* So I tell you.* Then someone asks me the same damn thing again.

I'm not going to change my mind.* Old crap is old crap.* Our helicopter pilot at the television station I worked at until I moved here was forced to fly a really crummy little helicopter for traffic reporting.* It fell out the sky with considerable regularity but fortunately never hurt anyone in the process.* When I asked him if there was any way to make the thing more reliable, he said "You can only polish a turd so much."

That's the Lehman in my opinion.

*
 
Quit calling my beloved Lehman bad names, bastard. Didn't your mother ever teach you if you don't have anything nice to say, shut the **** up?
 
Keith wrote:

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Quit calling my beloved Lehman bad names, bastard. Didn't your mother ever teach you if you don't have anything nice to say, shut the **** up?
Another dinosaur heard from.* The answer to your question is no.* That's a rule for pansy-as*ses.* My mom taught me to say what I thought.

*


-- Edited by Marin on Thursday 19th of August 2010 06:49:46 PM
 
Y'know what?* I'm going to defend Marin at this point...* The OP asked a question about starting a FL and Marin offered several helpful posts in response.* Until someone said why do you hate FL so much did he come back and say "by today's standards" they are crap, which is a true statement.

Problem is on this forum most people have very old diesels and so qualifying by today's standards is hardly applicable.

So I'll tell my friends from now on, "I'm going out this weekend on my old boat which is powered by old and sturdy diesels, which by the way are crap by today's standards, but do still function and would be very expensive to replace.* I can get parts easily and do some of the mechanical work on them myself, but don't forget they are still crap by today's standards."

Sorry, I just can't help making fun...* Maybe a more positive spin might make people happier...
smile.gif
 
Egregious wrote:
So I'll tell my friends from now on, "I'm going out this weekend on my old boat which is powered by old and sturdy diesels, which by the way are crap by today's standards, but do still function and would be very expensive to replace.* I can get parts easily and do some of the mechanical work on them myself, but don't forget they are still crap by today's standards."
Now that's the first sensible statement I've seen from anybody on this forum on this subject.

*
 
Marin wrote:First of all, it's "MARIN" not Marian.
I was wondering how long it would take you to correct that!
frustrated.gif


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marin, I couldn't care less if you call YOUR engines pieces of ****, crap, old, outdated, that you hate them, etc. For those of us who love our Lehmans, you're just insulting us every time you post that OUR engines suck.

Oh yea, and your mother wears Army boots.
 
this is retarded...

marin, did you ever think maybe people dont give a **** what you think about the lehman engines? so much drama
 
Keith wrote:For those of us who love our Lehmans, you're just insulting us every time you post that OUR engines suck.
Oh look, there goes the point.* You think I give a rat's a*s what you think of your engine?* I'm only interested in what I think of your engine.* If you're so insecure in your own opinion to be insulted by mine, let's see--- you're fond of ancient stupid sayings like "Your mother wears Army boots (what are you, 85 or something?* No wonder you like Lehmans), so how about this one....

Grow a pair.


-- Edited by Marin on Friday 20th of August 2010 09:59:38 PM
 
albin43 wrote:marin, did you ever think maybe people dont give a **** what you think about the lehman engines? so much drama

I don't expect anyone to care what I think about the Lehman.* I certainly don't care what you think of them.* I posted my opinion of them in the course of a rational discussion months ago.* Hell, maybe even last year.* Ever since then you lot have been whining and bitching that I don't like them and keep asking me why.* So I tell you ...* again.... and all the whining and bitching starts up again.

You know what I think about them now, right?* So shut the hell up about it and so will I.

*

This forum is like high school, sometimes.


-- Edited by Marin on Friday 20th of August 2010 10:03:12 PM
 
Marin, you're on the other coast so we may never meet.* But I'd buy you a beer or whatever you like to drink if I ever met you.* You are a giant A-hole but I think I'd get along great with you.* It would be entertaining and I would probably learn something.

That said, in your avatar, your laundry is hanging out.** Are you expecting someone to bump into your boat?
 
Egregious wrote:

You are a giant A-hole but I think I'd get along great with you.* It would be entertaining and I would probably learn something.

That said, in your avatar, your laundry is hanging out.** Are you expecting someone to bump into your boat?

*
A-hole---- well, I'll accept that.* You don't get things done by sitting nicely with your hands folded in your lap and spouting platitudes and PC-speak.

I doubt you would learn anything about boating that you don't already know.* Airplanes maybe.* Floatplanes definitely.* Probably not boating.

When I took the avatar photo we were set up for boating friends who were coming down to our property in the San Juans to join us.* Thus the fenders.* Same setup as the photo below but a starboard tie instead of port.




-- Edited by Marin on Friday 20th of August 2010 10:41:54 PM
 

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Marin, I don't think you're an a-hole, just someone with very firm and well-informed views who is no push-over in a debate, but that doesn't mean we won't continue to debate you. However I promise to not mention that engine ever again.
Now on this matter of hanging out the laundry.* I confess I do leave my fenders out.* We got sick of tripping over them on the side decks, and do not have room for fender holders, yet I like them to be handy to deploy, so I compromise by haulng them up so they protect the gunwhale edge from any vessel coming to raft up etc, (or swinging into us in the night in a tight anchorage), and they don't drag anywhere near the water, or swing about.* I think set up this way, they make the boat look purposful, but not too ugly, but others may differ.
PS. They have nice woolley socks on to protect from rubbing (no black marks) and match the canopies etc, so....I dunno....I think they look ok.* See Avatar.


-- Edited by Peter B on Saturday 21st of August 2010 05:18:33 AM
 
Peter B wrote:

* I think set up this way, they make the boat look purposful, but not too ugly, but others may differ.

-- Edited by Peter B on Saturday 21st of August 2010 05:18:33 AM

So do the tires on a tug.
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*
 
blankstare.gif
My 2 115 hp start with no trouble summer and winter ,sounds like air in the system.A little bleeding will soon sort the engines Good Luck
 
Marin wrote:


Keith wrote:For those of us who love our Lehmans, you're just insulting us every time you post that OUR engines suck.
Oh look, there goes the point.* You think I give a rat's a*s what you think of your engine?* I'm only interested in what I think of your engine.* If you're so insecure in your own opinion to be insulted by mine, let's see--- you're fond of ancient stupid sayings like "Your mother wears Army boots (what are you, 85 or something?* No wonder you like Lehmans), so how about this one....

Grow a pair.


-- Edited by Marin on Friday 20th of August 2010 09:59:38 PM
I was actually trying to put a little humor in there, but since you're so focused on trying to slam me, you didn't get it. I thought it was better than saying your mother was a whore and you never knew your father.

*
 
After sitting unused for 2 weeks my FL120 started instantly yesterday.

Just had to get that in there!*
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thanks BL

"After sitting unused for 2 weeks my [insert name, anatomical description, etc] started instantly yesterday."
 
Peter B wrote:


Now on this matter of hanging out the laundry.* I confess I do leave my fenders out.**
For runs of three or four hours out into the islands and then home again on a weekend we don't bother to unfasten and stow the fenders.* We just pull them in over the bulwark and lay them on the side decks which on a GB are wide enough to accomodate them and still not block access down the deck.* For longer trips my wife made three fender stow bags.* They are made out of some sort of course-weave cloth that breathes and they have an upper flap that goes around the handrail and then Velcros back together.* Each bag holds two fenders.* They're nice because when not in use they can be folded up and stowed.

Our two "big Bertha" fenders are simply stowed and tied on the aft deck.* In this neck of the woods a good idea I learned from Carey is to have at least one really big fender.* It's great for rafting where boat wakes might be an issue or for using between the boat and the dock for powering the stern out against a strong on-dock wind or current, etc.

We also don't bother removing and stowing our mooring lines.* We simply coil our breast and spring lines and loop and lock them over the handrail by their deck cleats.* We do this on both sides of the boat.* So they are always ready to deploy.* By some people's standards it might look a little sloppy (but the loops of line are neatly made--- usually), but we're far more interested in functionality than we are in appearance.


-- Edited by Marin on Tuesday 24th of August 2010 10:08:41 AM
 
<q>For longer trips my wife made three fender stow bags.* They are made out of some sort of course-weave cloth that breathes and they have an upper flap that goes around the handrail and then Velcros back together.* Each bag holds two fenders.* They're nice because when not in use they can be folded up and stowed.


I like that idea.</q>

-- Edited by albin man on Tuesday 24th of August 2010 10:51:50 AM
 

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