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Old 05-08-2013, 05:46 PM   #21
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Can Lehman be rebuilt in frame?

That is on the the plus of the DD as they can be rebuilt in place frame at 2 grand per hole.
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Old 05-08-2013, 05:58 PM   #22
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There are some interesting threads on boatdiesel about Ivecos. Some happy users and some not so. For that price a Cummins reman 220 NA is a good/better alternative.
Out of curiosity Tom. How much are the Cummins 220 reman's going for currently? I've "heard" north of $20K but in all fairness I cannot remember the model and HP that number was tied to.
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Old 05-08-2013, 06:26 PM   #23
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I think I would go with the Cummins reman also. Just the dealer network and amount of parts around would make me sleep better. Nothing against the Iveco, they are well regarded.
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Old 05-08-2013, 07:00 PM   #24
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Hi Tom,
You'd have to ask Dave if he/they are a dealer. On the brochure he gave me there is a window on the back that says "distributor" and he has his rubber stamp in it.
I think Klassen is a dealer though.
The shop in Ballard in Seattle that I deal w is an offshoot of the main facility in SW BC ... Delta, Surry or ???

The brochure goes on to tell about low vibration, noise and excellent serviceability w electronic control protection and diagnostics.

I drove a new diesel Jetta and that experience showed me there has been a very significant improvement in engine technology. Very high low speed torque too.

To my way of thinking a new engine is light years ahead of any typical rebuild. And w a rebuild you get absolutely NONE of the improvements the new engines have. Would you rather rebuild your 73 Buick or buy a new car. And for the guys that say they wouldn't have anything to do w an electronically controlled engine ... fine ...they can put a carburetor on their car.
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Old 05-08-2013, 07:17 PM   #25
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Can Lehman be rebuilt in frame?

That is on the the plus of the DD as they can be rebuilt in place frame at 2 grand per hole.
I was told by my friend with Alaska Diesel Electric (today's Northern Lights/Lugger) that it can. I've also been told that by our diesel shop. However they both said it will require considerably less labor to pull the engine and overhaul it in the shop so an in-situ overhaul is not cost-effective. But if it's the only way it can be done in a particular situation, I'm told it can be.

Much easier in a single than in a twin obviously.
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Old 05-08-2013, 08:26 PM   #26
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I thought about shipping out one of the Lehman replacements when I had to do a repower about 5 years ago. Turns out they don't meet our gov regulations over here in Oz, so it seems we are stuck with rebuilds.

I guess I could have changed the old Lehman with a new more efficient engine, but I like to have the same engines in the boat.
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Old 05-08-2013, 09:25 PM   #27
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10 K for a Ford Lehman. If I was price driven I think I would go that route, Yes I know they smoke and they vibrate and they are old technology but to have the engine bolt right in the old location is worth a lot. If money were no object I think a John Deere and Twin Disc gears would be an option
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Old 05-08-2013, 09:33 PM   #28
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Out of curiosity Tom. How much are the Cummins 220 reman's going for currently? I've "heard" north of $20K but in all fairness I cannot remember the model and HP that number was tied to.
In Seattle this past January, for fun I priced out 5 or 6 new engines at the boat show. I had a great talk with the West Coast mgr. for Cummins, and seem to remember the reman NA 5.9 at mid teens with the 370HP about the range you mentioned - North of $20K. Full warranty to boot.
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Old 05-08-2013, 09:46 PM   #29
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In Seattle this past January, for fun I priced out 5 or 6 new engines at the boat show. I had a great talk with the West Coast mgr. for Cummins, and seem to remember the reman NA 5.9 at mid teens with the 370HP about the range you mentioned - North of $20K. Full warranty to boot.
Thanks Tom. I think my friend was talking about the higher HP 370 now that you mention it. The Cummins are proven runners and would be a fine choice for anyone.
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Old 05-08-2013, 10:35 PM   #30
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Last year when I repowered with Cummins recon engines the 330HP repower units were 19K. No core charge, drop in, 2 year warranty with extended warranties available for additional cost.
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Old 05-09-2013, 11:40 AM   #31
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I was told by my friend with Alaska Diesel Electric (today's Northern Lights/Lugger) that it can. I've also been told that by our diesel shop. However they both said it will require considerably less labor to pull the engine and overhaul it in the shop so an in-situ overhaul is not cost-effective. But if it's the only way it can be done in a particular situation, I'm told it can be.

Much easier in a single than in a twin obviously.

Many time to get a big engine out big holes have to be cut the boat. Much rather pay for in frame/place rebuild and would probable be cheaper. Doing in place/frame rebuild was a must be able to due when looking at boats. That was one of the first questions, and also parts and service availability. No sense buying a boat/engine that parts and service is hard to get. Especially with a 3 to 4 month boating season.

Either Cummins or Deer are in most new trawlers. Deer seems to be the favority. That is one thing I will be asking about at Trawler Fest.
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Old 05-09-2013, 11:49 AM   #32
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Replacement part availibilty could be an issue with IVECO. Do they have the same policy as VOLVO, i.e., once the product is no longer made you are SOL for parts?
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Old 05-09-2013, 12:09 PM   #33
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Many time to get a big engine out big holes have to be cut the boat. Much rather pay for in frame/place rebuild and would probable be cheaper. Doing in place/frame rebuild was a must be able to due when looking at boats. .
Of course the ability to remove the engines is different on all boats.

On ours it took two separate fork lifts with special engine picking booms attached, four guys all of one day to remove both engines. No holes cut, no doors or windows removed.

Seeing a professional ship yard do it right makes me smile when I see amatures try it for the first time.
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Old 05-09-2013, 12:28 PM   #34
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To my way of thinking a new engine is light years ahead of any typical rebuild. And w a rebuild you get absolutely NONE of the improvements the new engines have.
I agree with you Eric but for one thing -----

For our low speed recreational trawlers and speaking from experience, the newer engines have a very big negative, but one they cannot get easily get around to meet Tier III/IV regs and power output at the same time - salt water cooled AFTER COOLERS. The real world gains in economy and emissions require a high degree of attention and money be spent on keeping the after coolers functioning properly and from leaking water into the engine.

For this reason alone, if I were replacing an older marine engine I would strongly consider a remanufactured non after cooler equipped or naturally aspirated factory rebuilt Cummins or Cat - with the fully backed factory warranty. The 10% or so loss in economy would be more than offset by not having the maintenance costs of keeping an after cooler in top shape.

If I wanted to go fast like Marin or KSanders and pay for the higher fuel burn, after coolers are pretty well a must on any marine engine. My after cooler maintenance costs average about $400 per engine per year or one could throw them away every 8 to 10 years at about $4000 per engine for new after coolers, installed.
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Old 05-09-2013, 02:10 PM   #35
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For this reason alone, if I were replacing an older marine engine I would strongly consider a remanufactured non after cooler equipped or naturally aspirated factory rebuilt Cummins or Cat - with the fully backed factory warranty. The 10% or so loss in economy would be more than offset by not having the maintenance costs of keeping an after cooler in top shape.

If I wanted to go fast like Marin or KSanders and pay for the higher fuel burn, after coolers are pretty well a must on any marine engine. My after cooler maintenance costs average about $400 per engine per year or one could throw them away every 8 to 10 years at about $4000 per engine for new after coolers, installed.
Aftercooler maintenance was one of the issues I debated when I repowered my boat.

I seriously considered going with the Cummins 220HP non aftercoold engines. One of the only reasons I chose the 330HP seawater aftercoold engines was resale.
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Old 05-09-2013, 02:59 PM   #36
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Aftercooler maintenance was one of the issues I debated when I repowered my boat.

I seriously considered going with the Cummins 220HP non aftercoold engines. One of the only reasons I chose the 330HP seawater aftercoold engines was resale.
My thoughts precisely Ken - resale, which is why I did the after cooler replacement last year. I could have bypassed ( I did bypass the failed one for about 5 weeks of cruising) the after coolers losing the top 25% of the HP which I never use anyway, but indeed replaced both with new.
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Old 05-09-2013, 04:23 PM   #37
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Many time to get a big engine out big holes have to be cut the boat.

This is true. But in a GB like ours the standard engine removal process is to remove all the ancilliary engine comonents--- raw water system and exhaust manifold primarily--- and the starboard forward main cabin window, the one just behind the cabin door. A lift boom off a tractor is extended through the window and the core engine is lifted straight up out of the engine room and then removed though the window opening. I've watched this done once in the yard in our marina. Once everything was set--- window removed, engine unmounted and suspended from the lift arm, the actual removal process took less than ten minutes to when the engine was sitting in a cradle in the diesel shop's pickup.

If one has a GB woodie or an early glass GB like ours, there is a hatch in the main cabin overhead that can be removed to lift an engine out. However this actually requires a lot more work than simply removing the cabin window so I don't know of anyone with a wood or early glass GB that has used the overhead hatch during an engine removal or replacement.
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Old 05-09-2013, 07:24 PM   #38
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Our yard did something similar removing our Lehman, except they used a forklift through the port cabin door, it was tight but the engine got through . Had to take off the port SS railing though.
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Old 05-09-2013, 09:07 PM   #39
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That could work well on a later GB that has the port cabin door. That doorway has unrestricted access from inside the boat. Access to the foreward starboard door is blocked by the helm station/console. Our GB is old enough not to have the port door. This became a standard feature on the GB36 when they started using new (and slightly larger) molds in 1988.
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Old 05-09-2013, 11:17 PM   #40
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My repower was done w a long extension on a fork lift. The engines went through the aft salon door.

But however it's done the smaller the engine is the easier it is to do. Another plus for twins.
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