Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 06-05-2013, 11:20 PM   #1
TF Site Team/Forum Founder
 
Baker's Avatar
 
City: League City, Tx
Vessel Name: Floatsome & Jetsome
Vessel Model: Meridian 411
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 7,332
One happy dude...Cummins related.

For those that don't know and have after cooled Cummins engines, the after coolers are the life and death of those engines. They should be serviced at least once every forum years and some would argue more often...every two years. Lets just say 2-4 years. I just bought a boat that is 12 years old with no evidence of the after coolers being serviced....also luckily, no evidence of damage caused by a failing after cooler. New ones cost in the $2500 range and times two, that can be some money. But I budgeted for worst case scenario.
The Cummins tech took them apart and while they were dirty and pretty clogged up with crap, they were structurally sound. They were able to clean them up and got them back on the boat. They are supposed to be sending pics of the job but haven't received them yet.

So a $5000 swing in my favor!!!! I am a happy dude!!!! Propellers are the next question mark. Should know the answer by tomorrow!!!

And if you own after cooled Cummins engines, do not ignorantly look away from your after coolers. If they leak, saltwater goes directly into the intake of the engine!
Baker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2013, 11:39 PM   #2
TF Site Team
 
FlyWright's Avatar
 
City: California Delta
Vessel Name: FlyWright
Vessel Model: 1977 Marshall Californian 34 LRC
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 13,728
I hope your lucky streak continues. If the props are OK, more money available for electronics, right?
__________________
My boat is my ark. It's my mobile treehouse and my floating fishing cabin. It's my retreat and my respite. Everyday I thank God I have a boat! -Al FJB

@DeltaBridges - 25 Delta Bridges in 25 Days
FlyWright is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2013, 11:42 PM   #3
GFC
Guru
 
City: Tri Cities, WA
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 4,406
Good news that saves you five boat bucks is always welcome news. Way to go!!!
__________________
Mike and Tina
1981 Boston Whaler 13'
GFC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2013, 06:50 AM   #4
Moderator Emeritus
 
dwhatty's Avatar
 
City: Home Port: Buck's Harbor, Maine
Vessel Name: "Emily Anne"
Vessel Model: 2001 Island Gypsy 32 Europa (Hull #146)
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 2,846
We had our aftercooler serviced last year, The yard made some sort of mod to it so that it drains or can be drained (gotta revisit that).
__________________
David Hawkins
Deer Isle, Maine
dwhatty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2013, 07:02 AM   #5
Guru
 
jleonard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 5,037
The cold water in the aftercooler condenses inside when the engine is running "easy" or at idle and the drain is to be able to let that water out after shutdown. I thik that's a Cummins sanctioned modification.
__________________
Jay Leonard
Ex boats: 1983 40 Albin trunk cabin, 1978 Mainship 34 Model 1
New Port Richey, Fl
jleonard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2013, 10:19 AM   #6
Valued Technical Contributor
 
DavidM's Avatar
 
City: Litchfield, Ct
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 6,786
It is my understanding that the condensate drain that Cummins added was the result of litigation. Tony Athens, the Cummins guru on boatdiesel, believes that the drain is useless. He says that any condensate is perfectly clean and will be blown through and burned with no harm to the engine.

David
DavidM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2013, 10:58 AM   #7
THD
Guru
 
City: Seattle
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 1,142
Five Boat Bucks buys a lot of beer! That is a good thing!
THD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2013, 11:14 AM   #8
Scraping Paint
 
City: Fort Lauderdale
Vessel Model: CHB 48 Zodiac YL 4.2
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,804
Quote:
Originally Posted by djmarchand View Post
He says that any condensate is perfectly clean and will be blown through and burned with no harm to the engine.
It's not the water that gets "blown through" that is a problem. It's the water that can collect in low spots and cause corrosion damage. In the worst case scenario, a slug of water can cause thermal shock damage to an intake valve, breaking it off and destroying the engine.

The water that collects is far from clean. The same soot and sulfuric acid compounds that accumulate to block and corrode the surfaces of the cooler concentrate in the condensation that can pool in the charge air passages.

A drain is hardly a waste of time and money.
RickB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2013, 12:00 PM   #9
Guru
 
Brooksie's Avatar
 
City: Cape Cod, MA
Vessel Name: Island Seeker
Vessel Model: Willard 36 Sedan
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,306
Quote:
Originally Posted by RickB View Post
The water that collects is far from clean. The same soot and sulfuric acid compounds that accumulate to block and corrode the surfaces of the cooler concentrate in the condensation that can pool in the charge air passages.
A drain is hardly a waste of time and money.
Condensation = distilled water
Soot, acid in exhaust yes; aftercooler no.
Brooksie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2013, 01:59 PM   #10
Scraping Paint
 
City: Fort Lauderdale
Vessel Model: CHB 48 Zodiac YL 4.2
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,804
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brooksie View Post
Condensation = distilled water
Soot, acid in exhaust yes; aftercooler no.
If that were the case, no one would ever have to clean the airside of an aftercooler, would they?

What do you think that nasty stuff is that collects on the airside of the tubes enough to eventually block the air flow? Where does your crankcase vent to? What is in the blowby that comes out your crankcase vent?
RickB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2013, 03:55 PM   #11
Guru
 
Giggitoni's Avatar
 
City: Vallejo, California
Vessel Name: Mahalo Moi
Vessel Model: 1986 Grand Banks 42 Classic
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,093
Whiskey? Also, I frequently clean up "condensate" spills from the oil fields. Most mimic gasoline and diesel in chemical composition...
__________________
Ray
"Mahalo Moi"
1986 GB-42 Classic
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑβΕ
Giggitoni is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2013, 04:34 PM   #12
Guru
 
jleonard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 5,037
I have read that the drain is "minimally effective".
I was knowledgeable of this issue when I did my repower of my ex, the old Mainship I. I chose the 270 hp version of the 6BTA because it was "jacket water aftercooled" meaning antifreeze cooled. Yes the aftercooler was less efficient hence the "only" 270 rating but it was also virtually maintenance free as far as the aftercooler was concerned. It also smoked less at idle because the air charge was not being supercooled.
I also chose to vent my crancase into a container that did not allow it to be sucked back into the engine so my intake system would stay clean. That is easy and cheap to do.
__________________
Jay Leonard
Ex boats: 1983 40 Albin trunk cabin, 1978 Mainship 34 Model 1
New Port Richey, Fl
jleonard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2013, 07:21 PM   #13
Guru
 
Codger2's Avatar
 
City: San Diego
Vessel Name: Circuit Breaker
Vessel Model: 2021..22' Duffy Cuddy cabin
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 6,691
Quote:
Originally Posted by dwhatty View Post
We had our aftercooler serviced last year.
I stopped by the Cummins dealer to see what they thought of Baker's post. They agreed with it and I'm scheduled for an after cooler service next week.
__________________
Done with diesel power boats! Have fallen in love with all electric!
Codger2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2013, 07:44 PM   #14
Guru
 
windmist's Avatar
 
City: Port Orchard, WA
Vessel Name: Violet A
Vessel Model: Nordic Tug 42
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 908
I'd sure like to know what is entailed in aftercooler service. I have a Cummins QSB 5.9. Can someone enlighten me? Is this something I can do? So far, all I have done is renew the pencil zinc once a year. Thanks.

Ron
windmist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2013, 04:35 AM   #15
Senior Member
 
City: Green Cove Springs, Florida
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 344
I was alerted by one of the Cummins mechanics in my area to be careful to seal the aluminum housing well from the nickel alloy cooler so you don't end up with a lot of corrosion in just a few months. When originally made the painted coating on the aluminum does that pretty well but tends to pull off and leave bare metal after disassembly.
bglad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2013, 07:00 AM   #16
Guru
 
jleonard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 5,037
Quote:
Originally Posted by windmist View Post
I'd sure like to know what is entailed in aftercooler service. I have a Cummins QSB 5.9. Can someone enlighten me? Is this something I can do? So far, all I have done is renew the pencil zinc once a year. Thanks.

Ron
If you do some reading on www.boatdiesel.com you'll learn what you need to do. There are lots of threads about it.
__________________
Jay Leonard
Ex boats: 1983 40 Albin trunk cabin, 1978 Mainship 34 Model 1
New Port Richey, Fl
jleonard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2013, 01:21 PM   #17
TF Site Team/Forum Founder
 
Baker's Avatar
 
City: League City, Tx
Vessel Name: Floatsome & Jetsome
Vessel Model: Meridian 411
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 7,332
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeaHorse II View Post
I stopped by the Cummins dealer to see what they thought of Baker's post. They agreed with it and I'm scheduled for an after cooler service next week.
Glad I could get you moving, Walt. You have known my disdain(for lack of a better word) for Cummins engines and ultimately the reason for that disdain is the premature failure of these engines. The reason for that premature failure is that people do not service these after coolers. They begin to leak and then you end up with saltwater in your charge air....ie your intake!!!!! That is not a good thing and it will cause bad things as you could imagine. The 6BT is a great engine at its core as has been proven on the road and in other applications. It will ingest saltwater with great aplomb...it just cant do it for a long period of time....as you would imagine. I ultimately had to join boatdiesel.com so I could get some expert counsel on what is up with these engines so that I could sleep at night after purchasing a Cummins powered boat. And also so I could relax while boating instead of worrying about the next $30k puff of white smoke that may issue from the exhaust at any minute. I am being a bit melodramatic here...to make a point!!!

I would highly recommend joining boatdiesel to anyone that operates after cooled cummins engines. It is only $25 a year. I also caution you that it is people with problems that are posting so you don't exactly get a warm and fuzzy feeling about your engines while you are on there...just a heads up. But you can learn from others mistakes and learn a lot from the gurus on there.
Baker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2013, 01:32 PM   #18
TF Site Team/Forum Founder
 
Baker's Avatar
 
City: League City, Tx
Vessel Name: Floatsome & Jetsome
Vessel Model: Meridian 411
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 7,332
Quote:
Originally Posted by windmist View Post
I'd sure like to know what is entailed in aftercooler service. I have a Cummins QSB 5.9. Can someone enlighten me? Is this something I can do? So far, all I have done is renew the pencil zinc once a year. Thanks.

Ron
I would imagine the QSBs are similar to the Bs except electronically controlled. Like the above poster said, you can learn eu thing you need to know on boatdiesel.con. I do not know if you can glean the information you are looking for without joining. But $25 is pretty cheap. Also, I don't know where you are and your proximity to a Certified Cummins tech, but the going rate to service these things seems to be about $350-500 per engine. That is awfully cheap insurance and peace of mind considering there is a lot of other shit on a boat that can cost you a lot more. One boat buck over 2-4 years ain't bad when you are maintaining the heart of your boat!

I think Timjet on here does his own...maybe he will chime in...
Baker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2013, 02:55 PM   #19
Guru
 
Pau Hana's Avatar


 
City: Seattle, WA
Vessel Name: Pau Hana
Vessel Model: 1989 PT52 Overseas Yachtfisher
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 2,676
Quote:
Originally Posted by windmist View Post
I'd sure like to know what is entailed in aftercooler service. I have a Cummins QSB 5.9. Can someone enlighten me? Is this something I can do? So far, all I have done is renew the pencil zinc once a year. Thanks.

Ron
Cummins engines are very easy to work on; you can do all needed services with minimal drama.

boatdiesel has all the info you need.
Aftercooler Maintenance - Cummins
__________________
Peter- Marine Insurance Guru at Novamar Insurance Group (206-350-5051) & tuna fishing addict!

1989 52' PT Overseas yachtfisher
Pau Hana is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2013, 05:04 PM   #20
Moderator Emeritus
 
ksanders's Avatar
 
City: SEWARD ALASKA
Vessel Name: DOS PECES
Vessel Model: BAYLINER 4788
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,267
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baker View Post

Glad I could get you moving, Walt. You have known my disdain(for lack of a better word) for Cummins engines and ultimately the reason for that disdain is the premature failure of these engines. The reason for that premature failure is that people do not service these after coolers. They begin to leak and then you end up with saltwater in your charge air....ie your intake!!!!! That is not a good thing and it will cause bad things as you could imagine. The 6BT is a great engine at its core as has been proven on the road and in other applications. It will ingest saltwater with great aplomb...it just cant do it for a long period of time....as you would imagine. I ultimately had to join boatdiesel.com so I could get some expert counsel on what is up with these engines so that I could sleep at night after purchasing a Cummins powered boat. And also so I could relax while boating instead of worrying about the next $30k puff of white smoke that may issue from the exhaust at any minute. I am being a bit melodramatic here...to make a point!!!

I would highly recommend joining boatdiesel to anyone that operates after cooled cummins engines. It is only $25 a year. I also caution you that it is people with problems that are posting so you don't exactly get a warm and fuzzy feeling about your engines while you are on there...just a heads up. But you can learn from others mistakes and learn a lot from the gurus on there.
Your concerns along with their shortened lifespan due to over propping was the main reason I bought a boat that was a repower candidate.

That way I know the engines history and am less likely to receive a visit from mr big bill
__________________
Kevin Sanders
Bayliner 4788 Dos Peces
Seward, Alaska - La Paz, Baja California Sur
https://maps.findmespot.com/s/XLJZ#history/assets
ksanders is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Trawler Port Captains
Port Captains are TF volunteers who can serve as local guides or assist with local arrangements and information. Search below to locate Port Captains near your destination. To learn more about this program read here: TF Port Captain Program





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:39 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012