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Old 08-01-2014, 01:18 AM   #1
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John Deere?

What do you think of replacing a FL120 with a John Deere? I'm thinking of this as something that might interest me in a year or two when I retire and can refit The Promise to a higher standard so we can cruise long term without worry. The displacement is 14,000lbs so a small JD might be the ticket.

Engine
PowerTech™ 4045TFM75
Displacement
4.5L
kW/hp
101 kW (135 hp)

Could be a good match? I will have to see what that would cost I guess, might have to log some trees to pay for it.
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Old 08-01-2014, 03:49 AM   #2
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Is the Lehman toast? Way cheaper to rebuild it than replace it. Industrial Engines can sell you a rebuilt Lehman; the Canadian dollar sucks.
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Old 08-01-2014, 04:24 AM   #3
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Sure it will cost. But JD make fabulous engines. I have the 6068 TFM75 now and love 'em. Once you've done the 100 hour break-in at high power you can just run them at lower rpm and they sip fuel. Not saying the Lehman's are fuel hogs either, but I suspect the JD's will use less.

One of the money saving tricks is to get your repower engine to match existing gearbox ratio and prop size. The Boat diesel calculators worked well for me. I went from Cummins 270HP at 3000rpm to JD 201HP at 2600rpm, and did not even have to tweak the pitch to get full rpm at WOT and the dealer to sign off for warranty.
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Old 08-01-2014, 06:34 AM   #4
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For a repower I would purchase a factory rebuilt 4 cylinder from the TRACTOR folks.

3 or 4 times a year they go on sale and no donor block is required.

I would match it up to a rebuilt twin disc and plan on cruising >forever<.

Ideally I would convert to keel cooling , and only use water for the aftermarket exhaust manifold, although a dry stack would be first choice.

Adding a thrust bearing and using really soft mounts and one of the shaft drives could reduce the noise and vibration to almost nothing.

The use of used rebuilt would easily pay for the extra parts compared to purchasing new from a Marine JD guy.
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Old 08-01-2014, 08:37 AM   #5
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I certainly like the John Deere product, not sure as another posted stated would toss the Lehman for a turbo inner-cooled 4 cylinder diesel, now there are other brands that I would do that swap with, just not sure in your case.
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Old 08-01-2014, 08:52 AM   #6
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How many hours on the Lehman you currently have?
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Old 08-01-2014, 09:12 AM   #7
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I sure hope the Deeres are good - I've got two of them now :-) But they do have a good reputation. The 4045, as the number implies, is a 4 cylinder so likely to be physically smaller than the Lehman which you might find handy.
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Old 08-01-2014, 09:12 AM   #8
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Four years ago we looked at the cost of repowering Hobo's SP135. Rebuilding was ~10K if we pulled and reinstalled the rebuilt. A new Lugger/Northern Lights was ~40K. Here's a thread discussing repowering the SP135. Take a look at Post #7 which goes into some detail. For us, if and when, we'll rebuild the SP135.

Replacing a Ford Lehman SP135
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Old 08-01-2014, 09:22 AM   #9
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It would be far simpler and less expensive to rebuild the current engine or replace it with an identical one.
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Old 08-01-2014, 11:24 AM   #10
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You might check e bay. 6BT Cummins brand new $ 10.5k. A 4BT might be better for you though. did not see any new 4's though, still have to marinize either of them so another $6-$8k on top of. A 105hp Kabota by Beta gets up north of $20k....be perfect but the tariff, ouch...still better than chasing a $30K+ Deer. Have you considered having a mechanical survey done. Oil testing every 25 or so hours, having a full out evaluation of your existing engine. Perhaps top end overhaul is all you need, maybe you need nothing. Lay back spares like alternator, starter, raw water pump, water pump, fuel pump and so forth and call it done. Ford L. Engines should go 10k hrs before top end overhaul and 25k hours before a major. I have a FL 135 super. 2k hrs, runs like a top at 33 years old.
Another way to go is, sell your boat and start looking for a better boat and spend the money that way, perhaps you will find a fool like me that has $100k in a boat he has refit that you can buy for 1/3 of that. I have a 34 Mainship with a 6bt repower, the 2nd boat that someone is gonna get a hell a deal on.
With my limited experience, never again would I get into a major refit. Anything more than a valve job, if discretionary, would be off the table. Good luck with what ever you do
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Old 08-01-2014, 11:35 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dhmeissner View Post
What do you think of replacing a FL120 with a John Deere? I'm thinking of this as something that might interest me in a year or two when I retire and can refit The Promise to a higher standard so we can cruise long term without worry. The displacement is 14,000lbs so a small JD might be the ticket.

Engine
PowerTech™ 4045TFM75
Displacement
4.5L
kW/hp
101 kW (135 hp)

Could be a good match? I will have to see what that would cost I guess, might have to log some trees to pay for it.
I've done exactly what you're asking. It was expensive, but I don't regret the decision.

The only thing I would have done different is go with the non-turbo model. the 4045TFM75 has more power than I need with my displacement hull. The biggest reason for wishing I hadn't gone with the turbo was that I ended up having to replace the exhaust system with 4.5" plumbing. We couldn't get the back pressure low enough with 4" plumbing. The second is that, at normal cruising speeds, the turbo isn't working very hard, so I open it up (and suck fuel) on every trip just to make sure that the exhaust temperature gets hot enough to keep the turbo happy.

I can't really hear the turbo, and I did enough research to convince myself that modern turbos are pretty reliable. I suspect I also get a bit better fuel economy, Though I had to pay for that economy.

The engine went in with only a few minor stringer modifications. So that wasn't too bad, but I ended up having to replace both the transmission and the prop. You'd probably also have to replace the transmission, but the prop situation was unique to me.

I had to redo the fuel system, which needed to be done anyway. The lines were old, and the return system wasn't really up to the task given the much greater fuel return rate on the JD. The FL just trickles fuel back to the tank.

I had to put new seacocks and strainers as the old ones were too restrictive to meet Deere's warranty requirements (same story with the exhaust). Which brings up another point. To get the warranty on the engine, JD requires a sea trial where things like exhaust back pressure and seawater flow rates are measured. I don't know if that's something you could do yourself. You'd want to check with JD.

The engine is quite a bit shorter, so I had room to add a separate start battery in front of the engine, between the stringers. Now my 8D's are just for house use, though I can switch them in for starting if needed.
This involved wiring in a new Bluesea ACR. Before I had to keep and 8D in reserve, so I've doubled my house capacity.

I could have rebuilt the Lehman, though that would have cost me an entire boating season. So my remaining choices were to install a rebuilt Lehamn, install a new American Diesel, or go with new technology. The first two would have been much cheaper, but with the newer engine, I suspect parts will still be available 10 or 15 years from now.

The 4045 is counterbalanced, and is actually quite a bit smoother than the FL120. The JD is also a very clean engine. No soot on the transom, and no smoking when it's cold.

There's a great peace of mind that comes from knowing that my 1974 boat is mechanically new.
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Old 08-01-2014, 12:32 PM   #12
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I agree w mule here and certainly wouldn't rebuild a Lehman. Not at 10K anyway.

If you have an over powered boat (and most are) don't overlook the chance to repower w the ideal amount of power. Buying new things for one's boat is expensive but the reward is getting exactly what you want.

MER equipment in Seattle did sell a JD that was engineered to be a drop in replacement for the Lehman. I think they have my favorite steel exhaust manifold. Don't know enough about them for a recommendation though.

Also try Klassen engines in BC or Yukon engines in Ballard at the Hatton store on Leary Way by the Salmon Bay Cafe. Ask for Dave or Jim S. I do recommend Yukon.
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Old 08-01-2014, 01:57 PM   #13
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Thanks for all the thoughts on this guys. All good points to consider. My FL120 has under 2k hours, smokes a bit but runs and sounds good to my ears. I will have an analysis done. Still in the planning stage.
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Old 08-01-2014, 02:12 PM   #14
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I believe my non-turbo 4045 is John Deere's smallest maritime engine at 80 horsepower. It idles at just under 800 RPM and WOT is 2400 (U.S. smogged). It's a good engine but I have less than 400 hours on it. At cruising speed get 1.5 to 2.0 gallons per hour (4.0 gallons at WOT) pushing my 14-ton, FD boat, but hull speed is reached before 2200 RPM.



The model you list is a turbo. Do you need the extra horsepower?
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Old 08-01-2014, 02:34 PM   #15
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markpierce real nice installation!
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I believe my non-turbo 4045 is John Deere's smallest maritime engine at 80 horsepower. It idles at just under 800 RPM and WOT is 2400 (U.S. smogged). It's a good engine but I have less than 400 hours on it. At cruising speed get 1.5 to 2.0 gallons per hour (4.0 gallons at WOT) pushing my 14-ton, FD boat, but hull speed is reached before 2200 RPM.



The model you list is a turbo. Do you need the extra horsepower?
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Old 08-01-2014, 02:45 PM   #16
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Thanks for all the thoughts on this guys. All good points to consider. My FL120 has under 2k hours, smokes a bit but runs and sounds good to my ears. I will have an analysis done. Still in the planning stage.
Only 2000 hours, that's nothing. Quite frankly you'd be crazy to replace it for no good reason. But it's your boat and money.

As to the smoking, what color is it? Does it go away or get better as the engine warms up?
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Old 08-01-2014, 02:46 PM   #17
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markpierce real nice installation!
Thanks. The port and starboard battery boxes are convenient for sitting when servicing the engine.
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Old 08-01-2014, 04:50 PM   #18
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Mark that's real nice looking.

Bill, I hear ya. I won't be jumping in too anything too soon. The smoke is grey and never leaves, it's not excessive but there no the less. I'm going to have a mechanic look it over soon.
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Old 08-01-2014, 05:40 PM   #19
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[QUOTE=Mule;254231]You might check e bay. 6BT Cummins brand new $ 10.5k. do[QUOTE]




A 6BT Cummins reman has a new engine warranty, less vibration than a 4 and non electronic. Less money than a JD and same footprint as the Lehman. Parts everywhere if the need arises, as it is the most popular diesel made during the past 20 years.

Ask this same question on boatdiesel.
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Old 08-01-2014, 05:49 PM   #20
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[QUOTE=sunchaser;254316][QUOTE=Mule;254231]You might check e bay. 6BT Cummins brand new $ 10.5k. do
Quote:




A 6BT Cummins reman has a new engine warranty, less vibration than a 4 and non electronic. Less money than a JD and same footprint as the Lehman. Parts everywhere if the need arises, as it is the most popular diesel made during the past 20 years.

Ask this same question on boatdiesel.
While a lot of that makes sense...what's the lowest HP the block puts out?
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