instead of fuel polishing?

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Delfin said:
Steve, check out these pumps: https://www.grainger.com/product/PROCON-1-2-Stainless-Steel-Rotary-6XE90

You can get them in a number of sizes, and they are driven by a 1/3 hp 120 vac motor. The carbonator clamp attachment makes it simple to mount. Quiet, and seemingly indestructible.

On my system, one pump draws through a 30 micron Racor 1000 that I run to maintain refinery spec on bulk fuel storage. The other motor/pump is wired through a pair of Omron programable relays that allow me to set an off time separate from the on time. If I leave the boat for a month and want to refill the boiler day tank, the off time is set to 7 days and on the on time to 3 minutes and this keeps that day tank topped off. Or, if I want to polish for 3 days sitting at the dock, that is easy. The filter on this pump is a 10 micron, and I use it to transfer fuel from one tank to another.

I built this system for around $1,500 in parts, not counting the hoses, my labor, or two Debug units which everyone will say are pointless, but which I had great success with in cleaning up a contaminated tank on a prior boat.
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Delfin:

Interesting. I see no mention in the specs of use with fuel. It says "Pump is compatible with fire-resistant fluids, hydraulic oil, lubricants, coolants, insecticides, and soap. Can also be used in dispensers, espresso machines, sprayers, filtration and water purification processes, team-cleaning and car-washing machines, pressure boosters, atomizing/misting humidification systems, circulation systems, laboratory pumps, pilot plants, boiler feeds, textile machines, and fire jockey pumps."

There's no doubt handy, knowledgeable folks who have an understanding of ABYC standards can build there own effective and safe polishing system. Knowing you and your boat, I'm sure it's all of these things and it looks very good too.
 
Steve DAntonio said:
Delfin:

Interesting. I see no mention in the specs of use with fuel. It says "Pump is compatible with fire-resistant fluids, hydraulic oil, lubricants, coolants, insecticides, and soap. Can also be used in dispensers, espresso machines, sprayers, filtration and water purification processes, team-cleaning and car-washing machines, pressure boosters, atomizing/misting humidification systems, circulation systems, laboratory pumps, pilot plants, boiler feeds, textile machines, and fire jockey pumps."

There's no doubt handy, knowledgeable folks who have an understanding of ABYC standards can build there own effective and safe polishing system. Knowing you and your boat, I'm sure it's all of these things and it looks very good too.
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I made the assumption that if they can pump lubricants and hydraulic oil they can pump diesel. They've been in operation for just over a decade now, so it seems they can.
 
Delfin said:
Problem is matching the pump to the filter capacity. A Racor 1000 will only pass a bit less than 3 LPM. But if you have filters that can handle that volume....
Click to expand...

So only need a pump that does 180 lph?
Should be easy.
But the pump on the engine probably pushes something like that when running surely?

And here's a filter to go with that electric pump
Baldwin B10 does 95 litres/ minute

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/BALDWIN...4d3184adf8:g:UXYAAOSwtgZb~JqL&redirect=mobile
 
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Simi 60 said:
So only need a pump that does 180 lph?
Should be easy.
But the pump on the engine probably pushes something like that when running surely?

And here's a filter to go with that electric pump
Baldwin B10 does 95 litres/ minute

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/BALDWIN...4d3184adf8:g:UXYAAOSwtgZb~JqL&redirect=mobile
Click to expand...

180 gph is the throughput of a single 1000 series Racor. I looked, but don't see the specs on the Baldwin filter, even on the Baldwin site. That said, if it's 30 microns or so, you can keep the fuel at refinery spec, as I believe 30 microns is what they guarantee. If it was 30 or so, with that honking pump you could definitely filter some diesel! I assume you have a day tank? That said, if the tanks are large, IMO the probability that you can stir the tank sufficiently to get muck at the bottom distributed with any normal sized pump so you can filter it out isn't high. For that reason, most will recommend polishing when the tank is near empty and you're out in the slop. When I get to the last 20 gallons or so and a underway, at 3 gpm the remaining fuel will get passed through a Racor every 7 minutes. Do that for a few hours and whatever is in suspension from the turbulence of motion is now in the filter. If it isn't, it is so well stuck to the tank you can ignore it.

Different motors have different amounts of fuel returned to the tank. Detroits, I believe, return a lot. Others, not so much, so I'm not sure what the answer would be to the question. Generally, the day tank doesn't need to be polished because of return fuel.
 
Lepke said:
Whether you do it yourself or hire a fuel polishing company, cleaning the fuel/tank is two parts. One is a fuel treatment and the other pumping the fuel, many times, thru a Racor like filter that traps water and debris.
Treatment alone will not work unless you have an engine like Detroits that circulate much more fuel than they burn. Or add a fuel pump to circulate fuel thru your filter. For example, my Detroit mains pump 35 gallons/hr but burn 4 each. So 70 gallons/hr are filtered and 60+ gallons/hr returned to the tank.

I've used many fuel conditioners. The best is Archoil AR6200. I use it in my Ford truck and the injectors are at nearly double the expected life. It's also recommended by Jay Leno's garage. A side benefit is better mileage. In my Detroits I get about 4-6% better mileage, quicker starts, easier starts in very cold weather, etc. And my tanks are always clean.
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4-6% better mileage. Total and utter BULLSHIT
 
Simi 60 said:
Bit more info on this site and a cheaper price and close by to me



https://www.marineenergy.com.au/products/diesel-fuel-filter-baldwin-element-gf-246

No, I don't have day tanks just the 3500litres x 2
We have about 2000 litres in there now, I only need to run the engine @ 1150 for 30 minutes to feel a noticeable temp difference on the tanks which is why I was thinking our fuel pump shifts some fuel anyway.
Click to expand...

Quite likely, but that isn't going to supplant polishing with a couple thousand gallons to manage. Not sure if it's feasible, but if you could provide room for a day tank, it makes managing the fuel a lot easier.
 
gaston said:
4-6% better mileage. Total and utter BULLSHIT
Click to expand...

You, of course, have no clue whether your statement is true or not, yet still you make it. Other than the opportunity to anonymously abuse people, why are here?
 
Simi 60 said:
Does anyone have an idea how much fuel gets pumped through an 855 cummins "PT" pump?

I can find no actual data online or in manuals but the 3500 litre x 2 fuel tanks warm up pretty quick so I am thinking it must pump it through at a good rate.

This page indicates 400 LPM max
That's 24000 litres/ hour
I find it hard to believe that could be right.
https://wancum.en.made-in-china.com...5-PT-Fuel-Pumps-3655233-Cummins-Oil-Pump.html
Click to expand...


Cannot say about your engine but my unit [V555M] can burn 13GPH at full output and the PT pump , my spec sheet says, about 90 GPH. So yours might move about 6 or 7 times what the engine is rated to burn at full rated output.
 
Simi 60 said:
Does anyone have an idea how much fuel gets pumped through an 855 cummins "PT" pump?
Click to expand...

Hi. I have no idea but I suspect Steve does. Mind you, when I attended the 3 day Cummins Technical course on Play d'eau's engines (6CTA 8.3 - M3) we were advised the overspill was considerably more than the consumption. Hence, the engines were seen by tutor as a natural polishing system and certinaly no need for a separate system such as ESI.
 
C lectric said:
Cannot say about your engine but my unit [V555M] can burn 13GPH at full output and the PT pump , my spec sheet says, about 90 GPH. So yours might move about 6 or 7 times what the engine is rated to burn at full rated output.
Click to expand...

Thanks for that

greatpapabear said:
. Hence, the engines were seen by tutor as a natural polishing system and certainly no need for a separate system such as ESI.
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Yep, given the above from C electric it sounds like I'll stick to what I have been doing.
Drain the crap trap on the tank every month or so, seeing nothing and letting the engine and the racor 1000's do their thing.
 
gaston said:
I dont believe in perpetual motion or santa but please prove me wrong
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Gaston
The issue is not about logic or lack thereof, it is about decorum.

Please let those of us who enjoy and tolerate each other's posts do so in a somewhat friendly fashion. OTDE as we knew it is gone. :thumb:
 
sunchaser said:
Gaston
The issue is not about logic or lack thereof, it is about decorum.

Please let those of us who enjoy and tolerate each other's posts do so in a somewhat friendly fashion. OTDE as we knew it is gone. :thumb:
Click to expand...




You say LOGIC ?? so for a outlay of $20 one can treat 500 gallons of fuel and get 8% increase in mileage yep totally LOGICAL :facepalm: :whistling: I SAY BRING BACK OTDE at least all the bullshit was confined to one area instead of filling all the posts else wear
 
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greatpapabear said:
Maybe it's time for some personal experience rather than theory.

Play d'eau (Fleming55) has 4 fuel tanks with no polishing system installed. One Racor filter plus a fine filter per engine. Overspill returns to the supply tank. The overspill is the polished fuel. Tanks are kept full to prevent internal condensation

The base of each tank is checked bi-annually. No water, dead diesel bug or debris has ever been found in 15 years.

I treat the fuel with an additive every fill, plus a full treatment at the start and end of the season. Tank filler caps have their O rings changed every 3 years to prevent water ingress.

Result? No trace of any isses.

On the other hand, over 30 years I've known many motor boats and yachts suffer from diesel bug and end up employing a contractor to come along with a 'polishing system' which doesn't in any way stir up the base of the tank to get rid of the slimy dark brown dead bug. Lo and behold, that in almost every case, the clogged filters casued by dead bug, persists.

The moral of the story is to care for your fuel from day 1, realising that if there's going to be prpoblem it will happen in an emotional sea just when you don't need it.
Click to expand...


You've been fortunate to have avoided fuel problems, and no doubt much of that is the result of your attention to the fuel system. However, there's also an element of luck. I've cleaned out tanks for customers, accessing every chamber and hot water pressure washing, leaving them literally squeaky clean, only to have them require cleaning a year later.

There are two types of fuel contamination, chronic and acute. Your approach minimizes the likelihood of the the former but not the latter, and there really is very little one can do about the latter short of a polishing system. Fuel quality in the US and Canada is generally good, but there of course exceptions. Once you range further afield, to more remote parts, contamination becomes more common. Thus, one's experience with fuel contamination has a lot to do with where you buy fuel, how much you burn and how often the vessel is used. Vessels that are used often keep contamination, other than water, in suspension, making it more likely that it will be removed by primary and secondary filters.

The attached photo is a sample of fuel taken from the aforementioned recently cleaned tank, this unfortunate owner and several others took on fuel at the same fuel dock whose own storage tanks were severely contaminated with water.
 

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Steve, you and I both know a certain Fleming 65 that ranges far afield on the world's oceans. How does this vessel polish and deal wth taking on new fuel whether from Scotland, Ecuador or Dutch Harbor?
 
Steve DAntonio said:
You've been fortunate to have avoided fuel problems, and no doubt much of that is the result of your attention to the fuel system. However, there's also an element of luck. I've cleaned out tanks for customers, accessing every chamber and hot water pressure washing, leaving them literally squeaky clean, only to have them require cleaning a year later.

There are two types of fuel contamination, chronic and acute. Your approach minimizes the likelihood of the the former but not the latter, and there really is very little one can do about the latter short of a polishing system. Fuel quality in the US and Canada is generally good, but there of course exceptions. Once you range further afield, to more remote parts, contamination becomes more common. Thus, one's experience with fuel contamination has a lot to do with where you buy fuel, how much you burn and how often the vessel is used. Vessels that are used often keep contamination, other than water, in suspension, making it more likely that it will be removed by primary and secondary filters.

The attached photo is a sample of fuel taken from the aforementioned recently cleaned tank, this unfortunate owner and several others took on fuel at the same fuel dock whose own storage tanks were severely contaminated with water.
Click to expand...

Hi Steve,

Thanks for ths affirmation. Yes, i totally agree that the supplier can be one of the worst sources for 'instant and severe' contamination. Living in Guernsey I am blessed to be supplied direct from the island's fuel importers, by tanker to the pier head. With the fuel caps directly above the four tanks on our Fleming I refill with as much force as possible hoping that anything lurking at the bottoms of the tanks is stirred up. So far, not a hint of a problem - Phew!
 
sunchaser said:
Steve, you and I both know a certain Fleming 65 that ranges far afield on the world's oceans. How does this vessel polish and deal wth taking on new fuel whether from Scotland, Ecuador or Dutch Harbor?
Click to expand...

We plan on getting our vessel up to south east Asia
In some areas fuel can be suspect so after speaking to several cruisers in the area who have had issues I reckon this could be a worthwhile purchase.


40 LPM pump with bowser head and counter
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/12V-DC-...20d04d11ea:g:nV0AAOSw9lBcGgBm&redirect=mobile

Pumping through a Baldwin 10 mic. filter
https://www.marineenergy.com.au/products/diesel-fuel-filter-baldwin-element-gf-246
 
A significant factor in how you manage large volumes of fuel and the potential for contamination is the number of tanks you have to work with. If you have a day tank, and other bulk tanks you can take on a bad load and clean it up with a polishing system before it makes it to the day tank. Not fun, but not a major problem. If you don't have a day tank, then if you take on a bad load of fuel you can't rely easily on excess fuel return to clean it up for you so you need a polishing system, nor can you avoid having to clean it with polishing before you have to use it unless you do so at the dock from where you got the contaminated fuel.

As long as you're confident of fuel quality, then letting fuel bypass keep the fuel clean can work. If you can't be confident, then a polishing system can save a lot of headaches.

A good practice is to fill a clear gallon jug before you start fueling if you have any questions about quality. Let it sit for 10 minutes and take a look so you know what you'll be dealing with.
 
Delfin said:
Problem is matching the pump to the filter capacity. A Racor 1000 will only pass a bit less than 3 LPM. But if you have filters that can handle that volume....
Click to expand...

A bit more than that

Racor 1000 Series, Select Micron Filtration, Maximum Flow Rate: 180 GPH
Click to expand...
180gph equates to 11.35 litres/minute
I think you were meaning gallons? ;)
 
Simi 60 said:
A bit more than that


180gph equates to 11.35 litres/minute
I think you were meaning gallons? ;)
Click to expand...
I may have meant bushels.... But yes, 3 gpm, which declines a bit as soon as the filter starts getting loaded.
 
sunchaser said:
Steve, you and I both know a certain Fleming 65 that ranges far afield on the world's oceans. How does this vessel polish and deal wth taking on new fuel whether from Scotland, Ecuador or Dutch Harbor?
Click to expand...

Venture I has a polishing system, but it's never been used. She's been cruising AK for the last few years and the fuel there tends to be good thanks to the fishing fleet. But she's transited the Canal from the East Coast, been to the Galapagos etc, and has never had a serious fuel contamination issue. She's laid up typically for half a year, which isn't great for fuel. Venture II was used entirely in EU, no fuel issues for her either.

As I said in an earlier post, luck plays a role, as does regular use of the vessel in a seaway, to keep contaminants in suspension, where they are filtered out.

Several years ago I cruised to Antarctica aboard an ice class cruise ship, but this one was different, she was a former factory fishing vessel, and only 290 feet. Built in the early 60s to fish around Greenland year round, twin original MAK diesels, single screw a Y transmission and giant shaft generators. I spent a lot of time in the engine room and the engineer told me that not a drop of diesel made it to his engines without first passing through a centrifuge. The ship was so interesting I wrote an article about her http://stevedmarineconsulting.com/w.../Big-Ship-Little-Ship-Cruising-Antarctica.pdf
 
One thought for folks installing a replacement fuel tank might be to oversize the in tank pick up pipe and feed to the first filter.

Folks have at times reported blockages in the pick up pipe that might not happen with a larger pick up.
 
so here's my testimonial...


I bought a new 05 rv with a 5.9 cummins in it and that beast smoked insanely on acceleration. The unburnt fuel was so thick I could swear I saw people using their lights and wipers behind me. LOL


At the time starbrights "startron" was new so I figured, "well its under warranty"...
The stuff was amazing. ZERO smoke whenever I added it and massive smoke when I didnt add it to a tankfull.


The next time I used it was with the trawler I just had. It came with ~400 gallons of 8 - 9 year old diesel that had so much water and bugs that it was black and lumpy. This time I dumped a whole gallon of startron in the (dewatered) fuel, and after a week of recirculating/filtering the fuel, it turned from black to a nice and clear red.


The stuff is great when shocking the fuel for bugs as well as normal concentration for black smoke.
 
You can check www.schaefferoil.com for fuel additives that work.
Under SDS/Tech, look at 137 and 138 series performance packages. #285 is the bug killer. Yes, I do sell it, but to fuel distributors for bulk treatment.
 
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