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Old 12-21-2013, 06:26 AM   #21
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Be careful not to bend or break the flange on the tranny using the "socket trick"...plenty of people have done that damage and it costs more in the long run than just cutting the old flange off and getting a split coupling....which makes shaft removal easier in the future when you work on your new dripless.

It does cost a couple hundred as you have to take it to a machine shop to have it fitted and trued...but worth it.

I cut mine off in less than 5 minutes and I never worried about the tranny flange after I tried the socket for about 1 minute and nothing budged.

I used a 4 inch grinder with a cutting wheel, always cut into the keyway in case you go too deep so you don't score the shaft. When you get the new flange it comes with a new key anyhow.
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Old 12-21-2013, 06:29 AM   #22
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Greetings,
VERY careful application of heat (propane torch for example) around the flange might assist removal. Did I mention be VERY careful and have a fire extinguisher close at hand. NOT to be tried on a gas fuelled vessel.
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Old 12-21-2013, 06:38 AM   #23
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While a good suggestion RTF...too much heat and you destroy the rear seal on the tranny and you wind up in the same boat.

Every pro I know recommends cut it off if you don't already have a split coupling...you are just taking too much of a chance damaging the tranny.

I have also read that regular couplings aren't reusable as the rust that has formed that is preventing removal doesn't allow perfect alignment afterwards.

I think that is a stretch...especially for a slow moving shaft on a trawler....and plenty of people do it without noticeable issues (at least to them)....

MY strong recommendation is stop wasting energy....as frustration becomes the fuel to actions that result in maintenance damage and bite the bullet. If a spacer works with little time and energy...great...but most people press on till something bad happens to the tranny.
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Old 12-21-2013, 07:23 AM   #24
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Greetings,
Mr. psneeld. Valid arguments to be sure but as I understand it Mr. o wants to remove the flange from the shaft. VERY, as I mentioned, careful heating of the coupling while remote from the transmission flange should minimize damage to the transmission seal. I'm NOT suggesting heating the flange to cherry red or even close to that but a gentle QUICK heating may help removal. The ideal IMO would be to QUICKLY hit the flange with an oxy/acetylene flame but such a source is uncommon amongst the general populace and requires an amount of skill and perception.
To be sure, cutting the flange and replacing with a split coupling is quite a viable and indeed may be the best option. Just throwing some ideas out there. Mr. o. DON'T burn down your boat!!!!!!
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Old 12-21-2013, 08:24 AM   #25
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Wrapping the tranny end with a wet (cold) rag will help keep heat from damaging the rear seal if the heat method is used.
However a split coupling is still a much better product. One thing sure, it will make removal next time easy.
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Old 12-21-2013, 10:16 AM   #26
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Interesting I spent most of yesterday chasing down a puller and on the way to the marina it dawned on me that I didn't need a puller. Thought I was a genius till I mentioned the idea and was told that was the way to do it.

Anyway I have been using the socket method and Very careful application of heat (propane torch). At one point I climbed out to take a breather and heard a sound seems it did move a bit. Continued efforts didn't yield much left it in compression overnight. Try again today.

I have to agree this put enormous pressure on the trany flange. had not considered cutting and replacing. I actually have a lath so it may be worth my going with a split flange. My 4 inch air driven cutter could probably do the job but its a good size piece of metal. I will look into the flange idea and if I don't have any results today will consider that option.

Thank you again, I have had boats all my life but this trawler is putting me in new worlds. Like never had a diesel, or a single, never had to pull a flange, the sanity check is very helpful when breaking new ground.
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Old 12-21-2013, 10:30 AM   #27
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That was quick!

I did a web search and came right up with a site having what I would need for short $$.

I could even cut off mine and replace with another solid one. A lot better than risking damage to the trany.

Good input.
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Old 12-21-2013, 02:44 PM   #28
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Mine cut like butter with the 4" grinder and cutting wheels...lots'o sparks so being vigilant is important....

PLEASE don't put a solid coupler back on...that's why you are where you are now! make it easier for the next time whether you or the next guy.

Either way the shaft has to be trued and the coupler mated at right angles...if you can do that great..but take her to a machine shop if you can't.

2 years ago I had a shop purchase and true my shaft and coupler...plus flame spray some pitting where my stuffing covered the shaft.
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Old 12-22-2013, 08:28 AM   #29
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[QUOTE=psneeld;200354]Mine cut like butter with the 4" grinder and cutting wheels...lots'o sparks so being vigilant is important....

PLEASE don't put a solid coupler back on...that's why you are where you are now! make it easier for the next time whether you or the next guy.

Either way the shaft has to be trued and the coupler mated at right angles...if you can do that great..but take her to a machine shop if you can't.
QUOTE]

And remember to use an anti-seize compound of some sort or a little grease so either type of coupling can be removed a little easier next time..on the coupling and the flange bolts.
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Old 12-22-2013, 06:25 PM   #30
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Sorry have been trying to get back in for a day or so, my internet provider was not providing.

I have not been back to the boat for the last couple of days so it is still siting there in compression. If the boat gods are with me it may let go and I can move forward from there. More likely I will be cutting it and replacing with new.

I can see how a split flange may require truing but as to a solid flange what are you truing? Assuming the flange was machined in the conventional manner the bore would have to be true to the mating face. I only argue this point because I am not in a big hurry to pull the shaft. (requires the rudder be removed also). It has been suggested that I slide the new flange on and measure the face for true with an indicator. If we assume the flange true as built then it is the shaft that is out. I would agree that this tolerance gets very critical when dealing with high RPM say 3K or better but at the shaft speeds us slow and steady guys run it is likely much less critical.

Maybe I am just trying to talk myself out of pulling the rudder.

Thanks again for the awesome input and learning conversation.
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Old 12-22-2013, 08:07 PM   #31
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Greetings,
Mr. o. Why pull the rudder? Lots of rudders have a hole in them to allow the shaft to pass through so, just drill a hole. Some put a round/flat zinc on to cover the hole. KISS
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Old 12-22-2013, 09:31 PM   #32
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Maybe you are correct to not think it needs truing up...it's just whenever I have heard ANYONE talk about a new shaft coupling...they have always recommended a machine shop to ensure it being a true 90 degrees.
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Old 12-23-2013, 08:20 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psneeld View Post
Maybe you are correct to not think it needs truing up...it's just whenever I have heard ANYONE talk about a new shaft coupling...they have always recommended a machine shop to ensure it being a true 90 degrees.
I have also always heard that. Plus if you think about it, this would minimize any error that might have been induced when the coupling was manufactured. It will never be perfect as machined or after truing, but truing as an assembly will get it the best it can be (if done correctly).
Alignment doesn't allow much error. I think the "rule of thumb" is .001" per inch of diameter max on the parallelism of the flange faces.
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Old 12-23-2013, 09:14 AM   #34
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Sometimes shaft couplings are hard to get off because of a shear pin that can go un-noticed.
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Old 12-23-2013, 11:24 AM   #35
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OK more ideas. Hole or notch in the rudder is an interesting option.

Yes the shear pin/bolt has been removed, to my surprise it came off easily.

I agree there is no better than facing of the flange on the shaft. I have also been told that it is common practice to do it that way.

I have yet to get back to the boat, today I am going to attempt one more time to remove the existing flange if that fails then I have the cutting tool with me.

It is likely that I will be replacing the flange and if so I think I am going the measure the new one before pulling the shaft. It is not a big chore and if I do find it to be true then it saves a bunch of work. If not then I lost nothing but a few minuets.

This is a long way from shaft zincs, thanks for hanging in.
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Old 12-23-2013, 10:48 PM   #36
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The boat gods were with me, it moved. It is fighting me all the way but it is going. I didn't get it all the way off was interrupted by a friend good thing my arm was about to fall off. It is about half way out and moves easier as I go.

I had the grinder in my hand, now what am I going to do with all thees cutting wheels?

Happy holidays
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Old 12-23-2013, 11:53 PM   #37
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Great news!
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Old 12-24-2013, 12:08 PM   #38
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Quote:
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I have also always heard that. Plus if you think about it, this would minimize any error that might have been induced when the coupling was manufactured. It will never be perfect as machined or after truing, but truing as an assembly will get it the best it can be (if done correctly).
Alignment doesn't allow much error. I think the "rule of thumb" is .001" per inch of diameter max on the parallelism of the flange faces.

That's what I have heard from a LOT of people in the boating business and I certainly strive for it when aligning...

However in recent years...guys I really respect in this industry have smiled and smirked when I bring it up....

More than one has said that the average engine rubber isolation mounts allow way more motion of the engine than that .001" per inch of flange...I tend to agree after seeing many engine installs and shaft suppots from cutless bearings to struts, etc that certainly induce way more than that .001.

So I don't sweat it when aligning...I do a quick one looking for tolerance...then move on...

Heck it's usually a struggle just to hold the sag of the shaft , redo after the rough says it's OK, then engage the lip of the tranny flange into the hollow of the shaft flange, redo the measurement and hope I'm on target...
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Old 12-24-2013, 07:04 PM   #39
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Quote:
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That's what I have heard from a LOT of people in the boating business and I certainly strive for it when aligning...

However in recent years...guys I really respect in this industry have smiled and smirked when I bring it up....

More than one has said that the average engine rubber isolation mounts allow way more motion of the engine than that .001" per inch of flange...I tend to agree after seeing many engine installs and shaft suppots from cutless bearings to struts, etc that certainly induce way more than that .001.

So I don't sweat it when aligning...I do a quick one looking for tolerance...then move on...

Heck it's usually a struggle just to hold the sag of the shaft , redo after the rough says it's OK, then engage the lip of the tranny flange into the hollow of the shaft flange, redo the measurement and hope I'm on target...
Interesting you say that, I have a similar respected friend that basically gave me the same smirk and made the comment regarding the slow rotation shaft as opposed to the 3K plus. Fortunately for me its a non issue at this point.
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