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Old 05-04-2016, 04:12 PM   #1
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I failed at impeller install

First time trying to change an impeller on a larger engine and I failed miserably.

Cummins QSB 5.9L with a Sherwood water pump. With great effort (and an impeller puller) I was able to get the old impeller out. However, I was not able to get the new in. I was able to get the vanes inside the housing and push the impeller in until it hit the shaft. I was not able to get the splines lined up on the shaft and push it all the way in. Unfortunately, the angle is a bit awkward and hard to get much leverage on he impeller to both twist and push at the same time. I finally had to give up in humiliation.

Open to any and all suggestions. If worse comes to worse, I have a mechanic coming out on Friday to reinstall my HX and after cooler. I am sure he can do it. But it is something that I need to figure out for the future.
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Old 05-04-2016, 04:25 PM   #2
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How frustrating. Compress the vanes with a series of wire ties. Don't worry which way they compress they will fix themselves when the pump starts. Lube the impeller and shaft generously with grease of some sort; I use white lithium grease. As you push the impeller into the housing, cut each wire tie as it reaches the edge of the housing.

Hope this works for you. Good luck.
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Old 05-04-2016, 04:30 PM   #3
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Thanks Howard. I did try a wire tie, but I will try multiple.
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Old 05-04-2016, 04:34 PM   #4
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Everything Howard said and some patience.

if it still doesn't work, try putting the old impeller back in. if it goes in double check you have the right replacement.
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Old 05-04-2016, 04:46 PM   #5
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It's a tough job, Dave. However I have been able to do it on the same engine so you know it is possible. Howard's advice is just what you need to do. I use at least 2 ties and compress the vanes so they have a smaller diameter than the pump and lube them well. I use SuperLube for this. It's still a struggle and I use a hammer to tap the impeller home. Make sure you have a small block of wood to protect the impeller.

You can get impellers that are threaded inside so you can use a bolt that you screw in the middle of the impeller which forces it out. I think the bolt is 3/4" but I'm not sure.
I believe this impeller is Sherwood 17000K, Fisheries sku# 86082. That's the one I recently bought for my Cummins 8.3.

If you have this impeller with the threads, you can buy a short bolt screwed into the impeller to protect it from the hammer technique.

Good Luck
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Old 05-04-2016, 04:56 PM   #6
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Thanks Ron. I have an impeller puller that worked, but there is not a lot of room for it. A bolt might be easier.

The zip tie idea sounds good. I need to get some larger ties.
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Old 05-04-2016, 05:04 PM   #7
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Did you try bumping the starter to get the spline to line up?
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Old 05-04-2016, 05:16 PM   #8
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don't know if it would work in your situation but I used to have Perkins HT6-354 and it was much easier to remove the pump and replace the impeller sitting at the dinette with a coffee.
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Old 05-04-2016, 05:19 PM   #9
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I came up with an idea the last time I changed the Cat impellers and it made the job of installing them much easier.


I cut the middle section out of an empty milk jug, making the section about 3" tall and the strip long enough to go all the way around the impeller and overlap an inch or two.


I wrap the section around the impellers then put the zip ties on the outside of the plastic strip. As I tighten the zip ties (I use 2 because of the height of the impeller) it forces the plastic strip to compress the vanes on the impeller. This works the same way as tightening the zip ties without the plastic strip, except the plastic strip makes the compression of the vanes much simpler.


I then apply some dish soap and start to slide the new impeller into the housing. AS the impeller goes in the plastic piece hits the end of the housing and it stays in place as the impeller slides out of it and into the housing.


Works like a charm.
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Old 05-04-2016, 05:59 PM   #10
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That actually sounds like a pretty good idea. I may give that shot.


Lets see... Impeller is 3.5" in diameter, so the circumference would be 2*3.14*1.75=11". So 12" zip ties should do it.
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Old 05-04-2016, 06:06 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dhays View Post
That actually sounds like a pretty good idea. I may give that shot.


Lets see... Impeller is 3.5" in diameter, so the circumference would be 2*3.14*1.75=11". So 12" zip ties should do it.
The first inch or so of a tie is smooth. You might want to pick up some longer ones.
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Old 05-04-2016, 06:14 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hmason View Post
As you push the impeller into the housing, cut each wire tie as it reaches the edge of the housing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dhays View Post
Thanks Howard. I did try a wire tie, but I will try multiple.

Try pre-compressing with hose clamps, each one tighter than need be. As you remove the inner-most clamps, subsequent clamps can (usually) compress the rascal enough to help you continue sliding it into place...

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Old 05-04-2016, 06:15 PM   #13
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I found that a piston ring compressor works wonders for getting large impellers installed.

OEM/Piston ring compressor 27039- Read1Reviews onOEM #27039

Be sure to get the full cuff style, not the smaller band that looks like an oil filter wrench.
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Old 05-04-2016, 06:36 PM   #14
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Another good idea.
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Old 05-04-2016, 06:41 PM   #15
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Quote:
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I found that a piston ring compressor works wonders for getting large impellers installed.

OEM/Piston ring compressor 27039- Read1Reviews onOEM #27039

Be sure to get the full cuff style, not the smaller band that looks like an oil filter wrench.
Good advice. I finally broke down after years of frustration and bought this:Stanley Proto J2316 Proto Piston Ring Compressor - Hand Tool Sets - Amazon.com.

With a little grease, worked slicker than a weasel. Tighten the compressor down somewhat narrower than the opening and you have leeway inside the pump cavity to wiggle the impeller onto the splines.

Also, I replaced the hex head bolts on the impeller cover with SS socket head cap screws (I think that Flywright put me onto this). Helpful.
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Old 05-04-2016, 06:56 PM   #16
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I use several hose clamps.
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Old 05-04-2016, 07:42 PM   #17
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My piece of plastic works just the same way as the piston ring compressors, but mine was free, and not quite so fancy.
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Old 05-04-2016, 07:46 PM   #18
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I use several hose clamps.
Have done the hose clamp routine. Major PITA. Especially where slippery lubricant is involved. Why use several clamps that you need to individually tighten/loosen when you can just use a piston ring compressor that tightens the impeller uniformly?
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Old 05-04-2016, 07:47 PM   #19
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My piece of plastic works just the same way as the piston ring compressors, but mine was free, and not quite so fancy.
That'll do it.
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Old 05-04-2016, 08:19 PM   #20
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Best of luck. Not being an engine mechanic, I leave impeller replacement to him, Fortunately, I never boat very far from him.

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