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Old 05-06-2016, 01:39 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Puffin_NT32 View Post

For those responding about removing the pump for impeller replacement, the Cummins gear-driven pump installating doesn't accomodate that. Access to the pump attachment bolts are blocked by port side, front motor mount (and other plumbing), and that pump removal requires jacking that point of the engine slightly to remove that foward motor mount. There are some Cummins engines that have a belt-driven raw water pump which can be easily removed.
http://bertram31.com/newbb/viewtopic.php?t=4284

Apparently you can make this an easier job by doing a shim modification to the mount.

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Note: To remove the whole pump on the Cummins 6bt with factory mounts just shim the mount between the block 1/2 in. and add longer bolts. Its easy if you do it before initial install but many of you may have the 3/8-1/2in needed in the slot for the shim. I just cut the pallet shipping mounts and used it for a shim since the bolt pattern was already there.
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Old 05-06-2016, 01:50 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by dwhatty View Post
What he said.

I installed the SeaMax pump a couple of years ago when our Sherwood bit the dust. Removed the fuel cooler (just last week). Bought a piston ring compressor. This spring's impeller change went fast and easy and the pump has been trouble free. Didn't have to use any four letter words or shed any blood. Life is good.
David --

Is the SeaMAx pump a direct bolt-on replacement? I've also heard recommendations of the Super T-Series pumps.

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Old 05-06-2016, 02:29 PM   #63
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Update

Tried again to install the impeller using the ring compressor. The ring compressor worked great but I still could put the impeller on.

Today, the mechanic who was reinstalling the HX and aftercooler tried. He had no luck. I had two impellers. The one I had been trying to put on was the spare that came with the boat. On a whim, we tried the new spare that I just bought. It went on in 30 seconds. Even though they both were factory impellers with the same part number, one of them had slightly different splines that kept it from going on.

I don't feel quite so incompetent now. I also think the ring compressor is a good idea. Now I need to go buy another "spare". Those things are stupid expensive.

FWIW, when this pump needs to be rebuilt, I will likely just replace with the SeaMax pump. It is a bolt on replacement.

Thanks again for all the ideas and help!
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Old 05-06-2016, 02:44 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by SHASA III View Post
David --

Is the SeaMAx pump a direct bolt-on replacement?

Vic
Yes.
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Old 05-06-2016, 03:20 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Art View Post
Andy is the inventor's name. He needs pump number or impeller number to match tool. Costs range from $27.50 for smallest to $254.35 for largest. Says he has 10 different sizes... should be good for all pumps in U.S. Can only order through him, Ph. 310 780 8543

Hard to understand why his website has so little useful information. OK video, says get more info on the website, no further info there except for the phone number. I looked at that site quite some time ago... moths?... a year?... and assumed he didn't really want to sell anything.

Fairly aggressive prices, compared to a piston ring compression tool, or a few hose clamps, or a few more zip ties...

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Old 05-06-2016, 03:39 PM   #66
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$27.50 for a small plastic "funnel," yikes!
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Old 05-06-2016, 07:26 PM   #67
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Andy is the inventor's name. He needs pump number or impeller number to match tool. Costs range from $27.50 for smallest to $254.35 for largest. Says he has 10 different sizes... should be good for all pumps in U.S. Can only order through him, Ph. 310 780 8543
_________________________________________

Hard to understand why his website has so little useful information. OK video, says get more info on the website, no further info there except for the phone number. I looked at that site quite some time ago... moths?... a year?... and assumed he didn't really want to sell anything.

Fairly aggressive prices, compared to a piston ring compression tool, or a few hose clamps, or a few more zip ties...

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Originally Posted by hmason View Post
$27.50 for a small plastic "funnel," yikes!
Does seem that one could self produce an exactly similar working unit with a little ingenuity and correct fabric. His might be quire durable. The remover tool he provides is cool. When I get chance I may call him with numbers off my pump and find cost to me. There are plenty ways to accomplish impeller removal/replacements. If his tools saved me 50% off efforts and work time... each time... his cost might well have value.

He does not speak English too well and probably doesn't well know how to price things or how to market them.
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Old 05-06-2016, 09:49 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by No Mast View Post
Everything Howard said and some patience.

if it still doesn't work, try putting the old impeller back in. if it goes in double check you have the right replacement.
Sometimes one that was sold to you as an exact replacement, isn't.
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Old 05-06-2016, 11:29 PM   #69
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Maybe the spare that came with the boat was in a box (if it was in a box) that had the right number on the box, but the wrong impeller inside?
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Old 05-07-2016, 12:07 AM   #70
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Maybe the spare that came with the boat was in a box (if it was in a box) that had the right number on the box, but the wrong impeller inside?
That is what is odd. All the impellers (the one in the pump, the spare on the boat, and the new one I just bought this week) had exactly the same markings from factory on the impellers themselves. They all had the manufacturer (Sherwood) and the part number (27000) printed on the impeller itself. They all had the same number of splines but the one just wouldn't fit over the shaft. Very strange.

I am going to order another one now so I have a spare on board.
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Old 05-07-2016, 12:15 AM   #71
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I once took my transmission oil coolers apart and found lots of rubber pieces from failed impellers inside. Curious, as since I have owned this boat, (1994) I haven't yet had any vanes come off of the impeller. I have had other types of water pump failures, but never an impeller.
Are they making impellers of better stuff in the last 20 years?
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Old 05-07-2016, 10:47 AM   #72
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Originally Posted by dhays View Post
That is what is odd. All the impellers (the one in the pump, the spare on the boat, and the new one I just bought this week) had exactly the same markings from factory on the impellers themselves. They all had the manufacturer (Sherwood) and the part number (27000) printed on the impeller itself. They all had the same number of splines but the one just wouldn't fit over the shaft. Very strange.

I am going to order another one now so I have a spare on board.
How old was the spare? Impellers do tend to harden over time, even in packaging. We have a replacement schedule for those in our spares. Then the other aspect, your boat is depending on a cheap little piece, probably cost a dollar to make, so how good is the consistency and quality control? Always has gotten me on equipment and boats, you have a $250k piece of machinery and you're at the mercy of a 50 cent piece of plastic.
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Old 05-07-2016, 10:55 AM   #73
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How old was the spare? Impellers do tend to harden over time, even in packaging. We have a replacement schedule for those in our spares. Then the other aspect, your boat is depending on a cheap little piece, probably cost a dollar to make, so how good is the consistency and quality control? Always has gotten me on equipment and boats, you have a $250k piece of machinery and you're at the mercy of a 50 cent piece of plastic.
$0.50 piece of plastic is OK... long as it's well designed and made correctly with correct materials. A $25K to $75K engine can also be the fail-point.

Seems to me... the bottom line is to have good parts and parcels as well as stringently adhered to maintenance/replacement schedules.

Easier said than done!
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Old 05-07-2016, 10:58 AM   #74
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Originally Posted by BandB View Post
How old was the spare? Impellers do tend to harden over time, even in packaging. We have a replacement schedule for those in our spares. Then the other aspect, your boat is depending on a cheap little piece, probably cost a dollar to make, so how good is the consistency and quality control? Always has gotten me on equipment and boats, you have a $250k piece of machinery and you're at the mercy of a 50 cent piece of plastic.
No idea how old the spare was. The vans were still very pliable however. The problem with the fit wasn't the vanes but the splines that need to mate up with the splines on the shaft.

I just ordered another spare from Amazon. There it was only $79. When ordered through my local chandlery it was $110. Sherwood must think very highly of their impellers.
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Old 05-07-2016, 11:02 AM   #75
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Even brand new impellers may not be a working fit...had one for an Onan last sumner not work...second buy worked perfectly.

Funny how the broken older one was working fine and passed the sea trial for sale...
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Old 05-07-2016, 11:03 AM   #76
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No idea how old the spare was. The vans were still very pliable however. The problem with the fit wasn't the vanes but the splines that need to mate up with the splines on the shaft.

I just ordered another spare from Amazon. There it was only $79. When ordered through my local chandlery it was $110. Sherwood must think very highly of their impellers.
Cautionary I affix to "Net-Found" items:

Be careful of quality control.

Some net-found items can be from poor manufacturers, or seconds from a reputable manufacturer, or out dated with material composition compromised due to time since manufacturing.

That said - some net-found items are just fine!
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Old 05-07-2016, 11:11 AM   #77
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To SDOWNEY's comment on shim modification... at the recommendation of Seaboard Marine, I did that when I installed the Seamax pump. Enclosed, you can see the 1/2" aluminum shim plate between the engine block and motor mount. The football shaped flange base of the pump has two 15mm bolts and the shim pushes the motor mount more to port, and theoretically, allows you to get a socket on that inboard bolt (see ratchet extension along the engine block). Only problem, at least in my installation, you'll need a convoluted mix of extensions and universal sockets to get at that bolt. Removing the fuel cooler and related plumbing will simplify the whole process, and when I need to remove pump, I'll remove the cooler as well.
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Old 05-07-2016, 02:46 PM   #78
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Quote:
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The one I had been trying to put on was the spare that came with the boat.
May just be my luck, but I've learned to be very skeptical of spare parts that come when purchasing a used boat. Rubber pieces don't age well even if technically they're still "new". Steel pieces rust if not stored well. And I always wind up with lots of spares that don't fit anything installed on the boat.
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Old 05-08-2016, 10:59 AM   #79
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Take a look at this: Impeller Installation Tool
The funnel thingy may work, but I wonder how well it copes with the larger impellers.

Not too impressed with the look of the extractor though. In my experience, you can't beat the Jabsco pullers.
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Old 05-08-2016, 11:59 AM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Puffin_NT32 View Post
To SDOWNEY's comment on shim modification... at the recommendation of Seaboard Marine, I did that when I installed the Seamax pump. Enclosed, you can see the 1/2" aluminum shim plate between the engine block and motor mount. The football shaped flange base of the pump has two 15mm bolts and the shim pushes the motor mount more to port, and theoretically, allows you to get a socket on that inboard bolt (see ratchet extension along the engine block). Only problem, at least in my installation, you'll need a convoluted mix of extensions and universal sockets to get at that bolt. Removing the fuel cooler and related plumbing will simplify the whole process, and when I need to remove pump, I'll remove the cooler as well.
Good picture there, looks similar as getting to bolts on engine starters.
Some are just about impossible, can not see, have to feel your way.
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