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Old 01-08-2011, 03:39 PM   #1
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Hybrid Boats

A fellow just posted about his GB42 hybrid conversion on the GB owners forum.* Replaced one of the 210hp Cat diesels with a 145kw electric motor. Says there is better maneuverability with the electric motor and significantly reduced fuel usage.* The downside is the cost--- it is WAY expensive and is really not cost-effective unless one's desire for a "greener" boat far exceeds one's desire to not spend more on a boat than it's worth.

Then a forum participant from England posted this website for a boat he's contemplating replacing his GB32 woody with.* http://greenlinehybrid.com/?jezik1=ang

Thought the electric power fans on this forum might be interested.

Here are couple of photos of the Greenline.* I wonder how seagulls will react to that big shiny array of solar panels on the cabin top.......



-- Edited by Marin on Saturday 8th of January 2011 04:46:45 PM
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Old 01-08-2011, 04:12 PM   #2
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RE: Hybrid boats

This is really great news to the Prius drivers of the world!* (I'm one)
Thanks, Marin, for bringing this to the Forum. I have been wishing that I'd* see a "true hybrid" boat before hanging up my PFD and this just might be it! Rest assured, I'll be looking in to it.
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Old 01-08-2011, 04:12 PM   #3
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RE: Hybrid boats

Quote:
Marin wrote:

A fellow just posted about his GB42 hybrid conversion on the GB owners forum.* Replaced one of the 210hp Cat diesels with a 145kw electric motor. Says there is better maneuverability with the electric motor and significantly reduced fuel usage.* The downside is the cost--- it is WAY expensive and is really not cost-effective unless one's desire for a "greener" boat far exceeds one's desire to not spend more on a boat than it's worth.

Then a forum participant from England posted this website for a boat he's contemplating replacing his GB32 woody with.* http://greenlinehybrid.com/?jezik1=ang

Thought the electric power fans on this forum might be interested.

Here are couple of photos of the Greenline.* I wonder how seagulls will react to that big shiny array of solar panels on the cabin top.......



-- Edited by Marin on Saturday 8th of January 2011 04:46:45 PM
Pretty boat at the waterline up.* Below, if planing that hull would beat you to your knees.* With power stored from the solar panels, you could probably run at the speed*inu the pictres for about 5 minutes.**It would be interesting to see if the cruising speed on electricity is more than 5 knots (and for how long).* My low speed electric vehicle burns that clean coal generated electricty,* While my diesel car uses that dirty fuel from under ground.* The answer seems to be burn our food for transportation.*

*
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Old 01-08-2011, 05:01 PM   #4
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Hybrid boats

Quote:
Marin wrote:Here are couple of photos of the Greenline.* I wonder how seagulls will react to that big shiny array of solar panels on the cabin top.......
Funny that you ask. I was recently onboard the "Turanor PlanetSolar" in Miami for a yachting media event.

My interest was in the propulsion system as I was asked to write a technical piece for one of the megayacht magazines. When I was shown the array and considered that it is glass coated and effectively out of bounds for the daily yachtie washdown ceremony, the question about salt and seagull deposits was my first question.

The solar array aft of the wheelhouse is shown in my current avatar.

Seagulls aren't a big problem as they have nowhere to perch so the odd bomb is a rarity and salt crystals just don't collect to the point of reducing collection efficiency enough to even consider. The rain and nightly dew cleans it off enough.

Moonstruck got the real point as far as hybrids go. There is no free lunch in the marine propulsion business.

That guy replaced his 210 hp diesel with a 195 hp electric motor and a few tons of batteries that need charging off a 3 or 400 hp diesel after a very short time at any kind of speed if he doesn't want to slow down below hull speed for a very long period or head for a dock.* Boats that don't have access to shore power recharging so that the pollution is displaced (except for nuclear or hydro of course) or need quiet no emission maneuvering in sensitive areas for some reason, just don't fuflill many promises. Boats don't regenerate power so they can't be compared to cars.


IMO it's a not-so-clever-anymore publicity stunt that costs way more than any perceived savings would ever return and probably has a higher "carbon footprint" than the diesel powered version.



*


-- Edited by RickB on Saturday 8th of January 2011 06:04:02 PM
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Old 01-09-2011, 02:07 AM   #5
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RE: Hybrid boats

nordhavn did two no expense spared diesel electric builds.
Writing about the program on a nordhavn enthusiast web site dan streech**
co owner/president of nordhavn used the phrase train wreck.
If they cant make it a viable proposition hard to imagine a backyard conversion being viable.
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Old 01-09-2011, 07:31 AM   #6
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Hybrid boats

Quote:
rednev wrote:

nordhavn did two no expense spared diesel electric builds.
Writing about the program on a nordhavn enthusiast web site dan streech**
co owner/president of nordhavn used the phrase train wreck.
If they cant make it a viable proposition hard to imagine a backyard conversion being viable.
Pushing a boat is like a truck constantly pulling a hill.* The work loads on the engines never let up.* The batteries we have today just don't have the storage capacity to handle those kinds of loads.* Wind, solar, and ocean wave generation of electricity depend on the vagaries of nature.* I can see wind working in the trade wind belt to some extent.* Solar has some application in the Med and semi-tropical to tropical areas, but still the technology has miles to go.

RickB is right.* In automotve and street cars and the like the energy generated from braking can be somewhat stored in a flywheel or battery.* There are alot of variables in fuel mileage so it is hard to say just exactly how much fuel is saved by the hybrid engines.* When a car is bought for good gas mileage, it is usually driven for good gas mileage.* The hybrid car is a sophisticated, complicated piece of technology.* I applaude those that drive them, but I am not particularly happy about helping to pay for them through subsidies.* When they can sell in a free market, I will say the technology has arrived.

*


-- Edited by Moonstruck on Sunday 9th of January 2011 08:48:00 AM
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Old 01-09-2011, 07:40 AM   #7
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RE: Hybrid boats

I had heard rumors that Lagoon put a lot of it's resources into hybrids....don't know the details but it pretty much sunk them. Not to mention the expense that everybody already has....nobody wants them. There is no market.
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Old 01-09-2011, 10:36 AM   #8
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RE: Hybrid boats

Quote:
Baker wrote:

I had heard rumors that Lagoon put a lot of it's resources into hybrids....don't know the details but it pretty much sunk them. Not to mention the expense that everybody already has....nobody wants them. There is no market.
That's true. *Lagoon built several Electric powercats using the innovative Electric Wheel technology produced right here in Florida, but alas, it was not to be either. *Seems that they were tried in rental fleets in the Caribbean, and didn't perform up to expectations. *I was lucky enough to demo the Greenline Hybrid while I was in Germany. *In only 32 ft., there were many fresh, worth while innovations on this boat in addition to the VW diesel and electric slave drive. *It was quiet, smooth, and superb handler in a 3 ft. chop. *The contoured solar panels on the roof were beautifully done, but I wondered about replacement costs for such specially formed panels. *I talked to the builders of the Turanor Planet Solar at the Dusseldorf show and again just recently in Miami, and they insisted that while their panels were the most efficient they could buy at the time, they were over the counter items for anyone, and improved panels are already available, including those on the Greenline Hybrid.

Meanwhile, I dream of throwing my diesel away in favor of a sun powered drive one day, but like was said above, we're not there yet, and it's likely that the energy taxation of moving a boat through water will require something infinitely more efficient than the same thing needed to drive a car.
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Old 01-10-2011, 02:32 PM   #9
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Hybrid boats

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Moonstruck wrote:In automotve and street cars and the like the energy generated from braking can be somewhat stored in a flywheel or battery.* There are alot of variables in fuel mileage so it is hard to say just exactly how much fuel is saved by the hybrid engines.
An interesting factoid I have read in various articles and heard talked about by people in the car review/testing business like Jeremy Clarkson and so on is that hybrids are beneficial in terms of fuel use when driven in the city.* At low speeds, sitting in traffic, waiting at stoplights, the vehicle is running more in the electric mode than the gasoline mode.* But on the highway, the gas motor is running all the time because the battery power cannot maintain this kind of performance.* So when considering highway driving, there are other vehicles--- diesels and perhaps even some of the very efficient gasoline cars--- that actually get significantly better mileage than the hybrids.* The average mileage of a hybrid is high because its skewed by the low speed-no speed driving.* But if one does a lot of longer-distance, higher-speed driving (as we do), a hybrid is not the way to get the best mileage.

It was also interesting to hear the other day Alan Mulally, Ford CEO, say that in his opinon, electric cars like the Volt are not the answer.* He feels that there is a lot more efficiency that can be wrung out of gasoline and diesel engines that makes them more viable at least in the foreseeable future than the electrics.


-- Edited by Marin on Monday 10th of January 2011 03:35:17 PM
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Old 01-10-2011, 03:04 PM   #10
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RE: Hybrid boats

Quote:
Marin wrote:It was also interesting to hear the other day Alan Mulally, Ford CEO, say that in his opinon, electric cars like the Volt are not the answer.* He feels that there is a lot more efficiency that can be wrung out of gasoline and diesel engines that makes them more viable at least in the foreseeable future than the electrics.

-- Edited by Marin on Monday 10th of January 2011 03:35:17 PM
Interesting.* Here is a quote from Bill Ford (Great Grandson) just last week*at the when Ford unveiled it's Electric Focus:

"Bill Ford, the executive chairman of the Ford Motor Company, told ABC News in an exclusive interview that electric cars are now critical for the auto giant.

"To me, these are very much about signaling where this company is headed and, frankly, where this country ought to be headed," Ford said. "
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Old 01-10-2011, 03:15 PM   #11
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RE: Hybrid boats

Quote:
JD wrote:


Marin wrote:It was also interesting to hear the other day Alan Mulally, Ford CEO, say that in his opinon, electric cars like the Volt are not the answer.* He feels that there is a lot more efficiency that can be wrung out of gasoline and diesel engines that makes them more viable at least in the foreseeable future than the electrics.

-- Edited by Marin on Monday 10th of January 2011 03:35:17 PM
Interesting.* Here is a quote from Bill Ford (Great Grandson) just last week*at the when Ford unveiled it's Electric Focus:

"Bill Ford, the executive chairman of the Ford Motor Company, told ABC News in an exclusive interview that electric cars are now critical for the auto giant.

"To me, these are very much about signaling where this company is headed and, frankly, where this country ought to be headed," Ford said. "

Marin's post is true.* The hybrid saves fuel by not idling at stop lights and through regerative braking.* On the highway those benefits are lost.

Electric cars are important to car manufacturers because of the CAFE (corporate average fuel economy) standards imposed on them.

Just today VW premiered their new Passat at the Detroit Auto Show.* Beautiful car offered with clean diesel power at 43 mpg.* Less complicated than a hybrid, and cheaper to build.* Built right here in my home town.* We need the business.* Please buy one.

*
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Old 01-10-2011, 03:23 PM   #12
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RE: Hybrid boats

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Moonstruck wrote:Just today VW premiered their new Passat at the Detroit Auto Show.* Beautiful car offered with clean diesel power at 43 mpg.* Less complicated than a hybrid, and cheaper to build.* Built right here in my home town.* We need the business.* Please buy one.
We have a VW 2010*Jetta with the same engine.* We get 40 MPG consistently in the city and upper 40's on the Highway at 75-80 MPH.

One of the best cars I have ever owned and I have been through a few.* 30K+ miles and has had nothing done but three oil*and filter*changes.

*
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Old 01-11-2011, 04:57 AM   #13
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RE: Hybrid boats

Just today VW premiered their new Passat at the Detroit Auto Show. Beautiful car offered with clean diesel power at 43 mpg.


WOW the same performance of my 1980 Diesel rabbit !!

Wonder how well it does on tax free house fuel?
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Old 01-11-2011, 07:28 AM   #14
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RE: Hybrid boats

Quote:
FF wrote:

Just today VW premiered their new Passat at the Detroit Auto Show. Beautiful car offered with clean diesel power at 43 mpg.


WOW the same performance of my 1980 Diesel rabbit !!

Wonder how well it does on tax free house fuel?
They offer that engine in Golf (read Rabbit) and Jetts.* Both cars get better mileage than the Passat because of their weight.* the Passat is a comfortable highway cruiser.* I understand that the new version will be competitive in price to the Camry.* Please buy one.* We need the business.* Same mileage taxed or untaxed.

*
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Old 01-11-2011, 08:57 AM   #15
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RE: Hybrid boats

Quote:
Moonstruck wrote:Marin's post is true.* The hybrid saves fuel by not idling at stop lights and through regenerative braking.* On the highway those benefits are lost.
__________________________________________________ ______________ Absolutely true! That's why I have one as I do very little driving on the "open road."
(Kinda like picking the right boat for the mission.)

*
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Old 01-12-2011, 04:08 AM   #16
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RE: Hybrid boats

Same mileage taxed or untaxed.



I don't think so, the Ultra low sulfur diesel is costing large trucks mileage losses.

House fuel is nice and dense and not polluted with harm lobby by products, "biodiesel".
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Old 01-12-2011, 08:24 AM   #17
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RE: Hybrid boats

Sorry FF, but there is Bio in house fuel too. I just bought a load, (for my house) and it is touted by Columbia fuels as containing up to 5% Bio.

"Columbia Fuels BioHeat contains up to 5% biodiesel blended with our super clean, ultra-low-sulphur heating oil.".."The Canadian and Provincial Governments recently mandated biofuel use in fuel. Columbia Fuels customers have been enjoying the benefits of BioHeat for years now. "

$1.07/l + 12%HST -7% RBT. ? 7% rebate for using bio?
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Old 01-12-2011, 02:30 PM   #18
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RE: Hybrid boats

I suspect that , like it or not, we are going to get biodiesel in some form. At my last fill up for both the boat and the truck I realized that the floating and the grounded fuel stops were pumping biodiesel 5%. The only way I can avoid it would be to take a 6-8 hour run to the big city , not practical, and then I might get the same thing. Of course it has been the ULSD now for a couple years, no choice there either, anywhere. Actually there are choices, run the boat and truck or don't, but not good ones.

Luckily the truck was designed for ULSD but I'll see about the bio. The boat was done for neither.

At least we can all commiseryate
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Old 01-12-2011, 02:40 PM   #19
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RE: Hybrid boats

Hybrid boats seem silly.* On the other hand, a diesel-electric drive (diesel engine powering generator which provides electriciy*for the shaft motor)*sounds advantageous: won't need a darn transmission and possibly the genset could get you home if the main engine dies.
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Old 01-13-2011, 10:14 AM   #20
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RE: Hybrid boats

I read/herad the best for a hybrid is if the house demand is equal to propulsion demand.* Many large mega yachts are hybrid, diesel electric. **For a pleasure boat it would be hard to justify the cost vs. the savings.* What gets me is the Hybrid that the batteries are based on Lithium that has to be imported.* So instead of import oil we import raw material.* **


*
I been burning ULSD for several years and I find it burns cleaner and have not notice a loss of power, but I been trying to turn the diesel yearly and use additives to prolong the live and cetane.* I will void burning Bio as long as possible.* However the State of Washing ferry and transportations been burning Bio for years.* Again I think the bio has to be used/turned quickly.* Because ULSD and now Bio seem to have a short storage live I have do not fill the tanks more than what we can burn/use in one year.***


*
We have a hydraulic get home that is powered gen set.* The hydraulic variable PSI pump is also used to power the hydraulic bow thruster.* We have an AC cruise gen 5 KW off the DD 671 main so when out we dont run the gen set.* So we are set up the gen is back up for the main, and the main is back up for the gen.* Hydraulic is old technology and DC electric is new.**
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