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Old 10-27-2013, 09:08 AM   #1
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How many hours before SMOH

I am curious about engine hours before SMOH

Brand Model HP Hours

And I would like alot of participation I think this would help figure cost and setup since hours to a motor is like a bank account the higher the account is the sooner you will need to spend on a SMOH
The same info would be valuable after a SMOH

Brand Model HP Hours

Thankyou all for the participation I will total the finding and report back
Gregg
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Old 10-27-2013, 10:05 AM   #2
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Wow, huge amount of variables. Great deal will depend on how you use it and how you maintain it. Would guess most can go 10,000 to 20,000 hours when properly set up (correct prop pitch, correct gear reduction), properly maintained ( fluid changes, filter changes, valve adjustments, etc.), and properly sized for intended use (cruised at approximately 30 to 70% of rated output).

IMO, most of us who install a new engine won't run it enough to reach SMOH (not a whole lot of people in their 20s on this forum ). If you bought the boat used and there is 5,000+ hours on the engine, it's really hard to generalize life expectancy (of the engine ) without knowing how the previous owner REALLY took care of it.

Overhaul costs would be interesting to know, but will vary widely based on local labor rates.

Ted
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Old 10-27-2013, 10:07 AM   #3
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Some people think it's a matter of hours. Like your bank account theory. But I know it's very rare for an engine to wear or deteriorate in that manner. Almost all die a slow death of abuse. Little things all add up I think. Like running hard out to the fishing grounds at heavy load and high speed and suddenly dumping the throttle to an idle to prepare for fishing. You're late so you run up to cruising speed with only several minutes of warm up. Put off oil changes. Frequently run for hours charging house batts. A broken coolant hose and the engine overheats but dosn't seize. For a period of time fuel finds it's way into the lube oil and you don't figure out what's happening until the lube oil is badly diluted. Over 20 or so years many of these things happen to pleasure boats.

These are the reasons engines become old engines having little to do with hours run or how many years the engine has been in service.
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Old 10-27-2013, 10:53 AM   #4
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On my Cat 3116, they say 35,000 gallons.
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Old 10-27-2013, 11:02 AM   #5
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You are looking for some kind of correlation between engine model and hours to SMOH. I don't think there is one.

What you will find is that there is a good correlation between hp/per liter and hours SMOH. The high hp/liter motors, like the Yanmar BY series or the Steyr line, will succumb to all of the issues described by the previous posters early on in their life.

The venerable Lehman 120, Perkins 135, some Cummins and some JDs will keep chugging along almost forever due to their low hp per liter stress levels.

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Old 10-27-2013, 11:15 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by djmarchand View Post
You are looking for some kind of correlation between engine model and hours to SMOH. I don't think there is one.

What you will find is that there is a good correlation between hp/per liter and hours SMOH. The high hp/liter motors, like the Yanmar BY series or the Steyr line, will succumb to all of the issues described by the previous posters early on in their life.

The venerable Lehman 120, Perkins 135, some Cummins and some JDs will keep chugging along almost forever due to their low hp per liter stress levels.

David
Yes this is exactly what I am looking for including the comments from before I understand it can be longer for some and shorter for other but both data will give an average it may also help us discover if a brand might be supperior or a specivic horsepower combo for an engine please keep posting but with answers even if you don't agree with my method or find it flawed i am just trying to get a corelation so say what you think but please post the data!
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Old 10-27-2013, 11:23 AM   #7
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What is SMOH?
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Old 10-27-2013, 11:51 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Fill View Post
What is SMOH?
since major over haul,
airplane term... not really the same in boats.

The original poster doesn't really grasp how boat engines are used
(and abused ), and how every boat engine.. and depending how it is set up will have different rebuild intervals and or life span.

Kind of like asking what does it cost to buy a house... too many variables.
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Old 10-27-2013, 11:51 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by Phil Fill View Post
What is SMOH?
I wasn't sure myself and had to look it up... "Since Major Overhaul".
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Old 10-27-2013, 11:58 AM   #10
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There is the start stop cycles theory mentioned by someone recently here on TF. I believe good warm up and cool down procedures softens the impact of starts and stops considerably or even tremendously.
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Old 10-27-2013, 01:09 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wataworld View Post
Yes this is exactly what I am looking for including the comments from before I understand it can be longer for some and shorter for other but both data will give an average it may also help us discover if a brand might be supperior or a specivic horsepower combo for an engine please keep posting but with answers even if you don't agree with my method or find it flawed i am just trying to get a corelation so say what you think but please post the data!
Gregg
Something else to consider:
Engine designs change more quickly now. By the time you have significant data on SMOH for an engine, the manufacturer has changed the engine increased the HP or changed where componets are built. In short, past performance isn't a guarantee of future results.

Finally, there is now a much wider selection of engines and HPs to better match the boats most of us have. As a result, and combined with the cost of fuel, one would have to think long and hard about repowering versus rebuilding to acheave better fuel economy. Nothing wrong with most of the classic trawler engines, but there are many I wouldn't rebuild with diesel at $4 a gallon.

Ted
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Old 10-27-2013, 01:18 PM   #12
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And "marine age" also plays a part as well. Sometimes the age of the motor will cause it's demise...not the hours of use. There are certain accessories that age over time regardless of of usage/hours and can cause the early failure of engines...or at least increase wear. Aftercoolers, fuel coolers, heat exchangers all are subject to deterioration over time. And when they fail, they can cause significant issues.

To put it a different way....if you ran a diesel 5 hours a day on average you would get more hours out of an engine than if you only put 150 hours a year on it. And not because the old adage that "it is better for the to run than to sit.". It is because the hours acquired are over a short period of time where "marine age" is not such a factor....ie all the parts that fail due to age(not hours/use) are still relatively new so they provide good service.
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Old 10-27-2013, 04:08 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hollywood8118 View Post
since major over haul,
airplane term... not really the same in boats.

The original poster doesn't really grasp how boat engines are used
(and abused ), and how every boat engine.. and depending how it is set up will have different rebuild intervals and or life span.

Kind of like asking what does it cost to buy a house... too many variables.
HOLLYWOOD
Hi Hollywood
I do not think you can asertain my knowlege by my question! Answer the question and let the interpetation of the data speak for it self! As I shop for a trawler it is difficult to get these variables I dought seriously if any seller would tell the truth, oil analisys is great if the oil is used, compression can be played with, but all I am trying to find out if let say a lehman;s cost of ownership, versus a Cat, or a DD or a volvo which works better. It is fairly obvious under normal condition ie no blown radiator hose changed filters timely, air filters always on etc like Manyboats pointed out to understand a cat taxed with a higher HP (bigger turbo) would work how many less hours and Baker please limit your answers only to boat motors diesels in fact
Thanks Gregg
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Old 10-27-2013, 04:40 PM   #14
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Ford Lehman SP135, 7,929 hours. I should, if I last that long, go to 12-15K total hours, maybe more.
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Old 10-27-2013, 04:42 PM   #15
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Volvo MD17D
36 hp
2300 hours
29 years old
raw water cooled
No major mechanical work done yet as far as I am aware

No obvious issues, but I am more concerned with the 29 years old, than the 2300 hrs run.
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Old 10-27-2013, 04:47 PM   #16
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Regular oil analysis is a good thing to do to monitor issues and how everything is wearing. It also helps when selling.

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Old 10-27-2013, 05:52 PM   #17
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Perhaps a useful starting question might have been "How many people here who have owned a diesel engine have had a Major Overhaul done to that same engine?"

I have not.

-Chris
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Old 10-27-2013, 06:14 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wataworld View Post
It is fairly obvious under normal condition ie no blown radiator hose...

... please limit your answers only to boat motors diesels in fact
It is also fairly obvious that marine diesel engines do not have radiator hoses. Just saying.

Although I applaud your enthusiasm for acquiring mechanical nirvana; you are on a silly quest. But have at it. If you really want to try and choose your boat by empirical data, perhaps boatdiesel.com may be of interest. You may get lots of conversation, but it will still be merely opinion.

I assume you are buying recreational boat. There are no absolutes when it comes to past maintenance, operation or documentation of either. It is really more like buying a used car, albeit with a higher price tag.
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Old 10-27-2013, 07:52 PM   #19
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I am curious about engine hours before SMOH
Gregg
How long is a piece of string you ask?

The answer lies in knowing these variables:

.. HP rating of engine
.. New or used engine
.. Prop setup and max WOT in gear RPM achieved
.. Normal cruise RPM planned
.. Knowledge and previous marine experience of owner
.. Capability of person doing maintenance
.. Adherence to book required maintenance
.. Hours per year put on engine
.. Year round use or lay up during winter months
.. Engine brand
.. Pictures of exhaust elbow area, especially where cooling water enters

Knowing the above information would provide a very good clue as to an answer regarding length of string.
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Old 10-27-2013, 08:18 PM   #20
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Hi Hollywood
I do not think you can asertain my knowlege by my question! Answer the question and let the interpetation of the data speak for it self!...... and Baker please limit your answers only to boat motors diesels in fact
Thanks Gregg
I'm sure with the tact and diplomacy you've displayed so far...that you will have a successful purchase. I'm not accustomed, however, to seeing a person ask a question and then telling a well intentioned member how to answer it!
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