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Old 10-06-2014, 09:56 PM   #21
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Go ahead Craig make an offer on that one. You can carry a big dinghy and no one will dispute that it's a trawler.
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Old 10-06-2014, 11:06 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by CPseudonym View Post
This guy seems to think a single engine is ok in remote places with no backup.

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Lots of backup I betcha in the way of crew and an onboard warehouse. The engineers on these big fishing boats are pretty skilled and those I have met can fix most anything that poses problems. This point has been raised by many on this thread, ie, suitable spares and skills to use them are a necessity when cruising and working offshore with a single.
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Old 10-07-2014, 12:28 AM   #23
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Several Alaska trawlers sink each decade

Most sink due to engine failures and loss of steerage - I don't think an Alaskan crabber is the example I was looking for!

The USCG stays pretty active in Alaska helping boats with engine problems.

Just to re-ask the question - who is cruising in remote areas or hundreds of miles from shore with a single engine and no backup?

Thanks to those who provide details of "doin' it"
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Old 10-07-2014, 12:51 AM   #24
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You could always go to a general aviation airport or forums and quiz some members of the flying clubs how they do it; those guys have some real motivation to not have engine failure.
... and that is why even a simple single, C172, costs about $75/hour to operate!

It would easy to make any single engine / no backup trawler safe with redundant power if I wanted to spend $30 or $40 per hour spread over 2000 hours and five years.
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Old 10-07-2014, 06:27 AM   #25
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Whether to go to a remote place with a single engine without a backup is one of these questions that will never be answered. Would like to mention two instances when I was very happy to have a wing engine.

Crossing the Mona Passage (between Puerto Rico and the Dominican Republic) we were experiencing ten foot seas and having a rough time when the stabilizer pump attached to the engine broke loose. My immediate reaction was to shut off the engine. Bay Pelican was bounced around like a toy with 55 degree rolls and all hell breaking loose. I needed to remount the pump. I turned on the wing engine and had enough forward motion that the boat stabilized somewhat and I was able to do what I had to do and restart the main engine.

Early in my stewardship of Bay Pelican I was docking in unfavorable conditions with a strong wind from the stern as I pulled into a covered slip. I knew that it was going to take power to stop the forward movement as the wind was pushing Bay Pelican forward toward the front of the slip. (Rookie error even trying this.) As I went to put the main into reverse I blew it and killed the engine. The wing engine being on (always when docking) I used the wing to stop the boat. We only gently tapped the bow against the dock.

Backup up arrangements are expensive to both install and somewhat to maintain. They do have some value, hard to quantify. I have become use to turning the wing engine on whenever I am docking, whenever I am anchoring in close quarters and importantly whenever I am going through a cut in reef where there is no room for drifting to restart the main engine.
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Old 10-07-2014, 06:44 AM   #26
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Just to re-ask the question - who is cruising in remote areas or hundreds of miles from shore with a single engine and no backup?

RAG BAG SAILORS , by the thousands.

For the speedy marine motorist Mr H. designed cruisers like the MARCO POLO .

10K, 240nm per day, but it was no beach ball.

With modern engines , materials this should be a snap to match.

Step the mast in a lutchet or crank powered tabernacle , build easily beachable , and a fairly low cost easy maint world cruiser could be built.

No beach ball.
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Old 10-07-2014, 10:05 AM   #27
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And I lost power on my single engine trawler In the Harlem on my delivery trip luckily my second anchor held and I was able to bleed the fuel and get running.
I have also done several 500 plus mile trips but none have been offshore.
Upon returning to Floyd Bennett field after a pollution patrol up the Harlem River in a single engine Coast Guard helicopter, we discovered bullet holes in the side of the fuselage. A few feet higher and to the left and we'd have been up the creek without a paddle. Twins for me.
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Old 10-07-2014, 11:29 AM   #28
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Does Richard on Dauntlass have a wing? I don't think he does. He just crossed the Atlantic with one lonely Lehman.
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Old 10-26-2014, 09:55 AM   #29
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Lots of excellent advice above! Keep the single engine simple, mechanical guages and controls, install a spring or hydraulic starter, take a college diesel repair course and best yet... tear apart and rebuild your engine in yout boat. You'll have confidence to spare!!

If that's not enough then get into kite surfing and design a rig to tie it to your bow.
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Old 10-26-2014, 02:53 PM   #30
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Lastly, Remote means different things to different people.

I thought nothing of going 10, 20 , 30 miles offshore in our first months of boat ownership. Yes, I knew BoatUS was only a phone call away, but we also had plans for the Atlantic and if we were afraid to go off shore then, we would never have made this trip now.

Also, the one time we really needed BoatUS when we were stuck on a lobster pot in Downeast Maine, after 12 hours, Julie was one the one who turned to me and said, "no one is going to help us, we must help ourselves"

We were free 30 minutes later and it was a valuable lesson for both of us.
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Old 10-26-2014, 05:36 PM   #31
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Lots of backup I betcha in the way of crew and an onboard warehouse. The engineers on these big fishing boats are pretty skilled and those I have met can fix most anything that poses problems. This point has been raised by many on this thread, ie, suitable spares and skills to use them are a necessity when cruising and working offshore with a single.

I completely agree Tom. The bigger point I was trying unsuccessfully to make is anyone going "offshore" had better have a good working knowledge of all their mechanical systems. I don't care if you have four engines with twin get homes if your fuel is crap you're in big trouble unless you can figure out how to deal with it at sea. You can carry a complete spare engine, transmission, shaft and prop with a Snap-On truck full of tools but if you don't know how to use them effectively you're just as screwed as the person without spares.

If someone is not mechanically inclined they would do well to hire someone who is to tag along offshore regardless of engine configuration IMO.
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Old 10-26-2014, 08:40 PM   #32
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And a day tank, above the engine, Gravity fed, 25 to 50 gallons previously filtered, ready to go, fed from the bottom of the day tank to the engine through still more filters. What, 5, 3, micron or what? How small, your call?? Elimates surprises. More controllable.
======================================

QUOTE=Tidahapah;273728]two due to clogged fuel filters
- one due to broken fuel line
- one due to broken injector line

Mate, until recently when I fitted the ketch rig to my vessel I cruised some pretty remote places out here in the Great Barrier Reef in a single engine motor cruiser.
had only one engine malfunction and that was a fractured low pressure fuel line that was repaired on board with in a couple of minutes.
From the list above none of those problems should have occurred if the fuel system and pipe work had been maintained and inspected properly.
With good inspection ports and drain traps fuel tanks can be maintained in a very clean state.
Fuel pipes and injector pipes inspected frequently and I always carry some high pressure steel pipe and fittings of the required size. Hose and hose clamps for low pressure pipes.

As long as you don't go the way of electronic diesel engines and keep it simple it should never be a problem.
Double RACORs and a polishing system will keep the fuel in good condition and a good supply of filter elements as a final back up.
Diesel engine , air , fuel and water is all that it is about, Plus good maintenance.

In saying that I have now fitted a ketch rig as a back up and also fuel conserver.
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Old 10-28-2014, 07:28 PM   #33
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Tidahapah said:
"Quote... From the list above none of those problems should have occurred if the fuel system and pipe work had been maintained and inspected properly...End of quote"

Mate, I have just made a coastal trip non-stop for 4 days and 12 hours on a single engine without any back up get home system. Ok, the boat is new but the systems were unknown so was the engine. In some parts of the trip the distance to shore was greater than 75 miles.

As you can see by your own experience, 75% of the mechanical problems with diesel engines are related to fuel, therefore, mostly related to the quality of the preventive maintenance that we do. My grandfather fished for cod for years in one engine fishing boats, back in those days of slow heavy engines. he always came back from New Foundland.



That's my 2 cents
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Old 10-29-2014, 09:03 AM   #34
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Mate, I have just made a coastal trip non-stop for 4 days and 12 hours on a single engine without any back up get home system. Ok, the boat is new but the systems were unknown so was the engine. In some parts of the trip the distance to shore was greater than 75 miles.



I missed the big splash. Good to hear she is running. The wife and I are land cruising.
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Old 12-09-2014, 11:01 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bay Pelican View Post

If I were to travel to the remote locations in the Caribbean with a single engine vessel without a back up system my preference would be with:

naturally aspirated engine
manual as opposed to electronic controls
rubber fuel lines (or the ability to work with copper)
fuel polishing system
keel which protects the prop
spare prop
replacement parts for everything on the engine including the starter

.
Marty has summed up my situation well.

The only spares I don't have connected to the engine are an injection pump and a transmission.
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Old 12-10-2014, 06:23 AM   #36
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This guy seems to think a single engine is ok in remote places with no backup.

Perhaps 99% of the worlds commercial vessel do the same.
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Old 12-10-2014, 10:56 AM   #37
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Tidahapah said:
"Quote... From the list above none of those problems should have occurred if the fuel system and pipe work had been maintained and inspected properly...End of quote"



As you can see by your own experience, 75% of the mechanical problems with diesel engines are related to fuel, therefore, mostly related to the quality of the preventive maintenance that we do. My grandfather fished for cod for years in one engine fishing boats, back in those days of slow heavy engines. he always came back from New Foundland.

Which is also another reason that I did not think the investment in a wing engine was worth while.

My only point in getting back into this discussion and

is that as I read various plans for whatever could come up: 6 eyes at night, 3 engines, 4 props, a helicopter, etc, The common theme is that if one prepares well enough, (using a checklist of course), they will be safe and sound.

So my belabored point, is that while it provides peace of mind, the data shows it's a false sense of security.
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Old 12-10-2014, 02:18 PM   #38
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I've repeated this story several times ..... My Great Grandfather ran a 40' wooden trawler with a single cylinder diesel from the north of Scotland to Iceland on several occasions.

All of the trawlers in this photo (Fraserburgh, Scotland) are single engine boats and these guys went out routinely into the North Sea in conditions that would horrify most of us. I've cruised from Duluth, MN to the Caribbean with a single engine and never gave it a second thought.

I guess my Scottish blood makes me too cheap for twins.
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Old 12-10-2014, 08:41 PM   #39
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Titanic had three engines...
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Old 12-11-2014, 01:45 AM   #40
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Our boat 53 foot wooden Banca in the Philippines has just one engine with no aux. or sail. We've put around 2000 hours on her in some pretty remote areas. Never offshore more than 25 miles but sometimes 40 miles to a safe anchorage. You wont get any coast guard help here. I do carry a Iridium sat phone and since last year a parachute anchor, which the one time we tested it seemed to keep the bow into the wind. We haven't been dead in the water for any length of time before we made repairs and got her going again. This is with an engine manufactured originaly around 1969, and rebuilt twice. Isuzu DA640 six diesel and three speed automotive transmission.
I'd rather die at sea then in a nursing home. Not sure the wife feels the same.
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