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Old 02-23-2016, 05:35 PM   #41
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Engines always run their best right before they don't!
That's what the NASCAR fellas say!!!!
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Old 02-23-2016, 05:41 PM   #42
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Would it make sense to run 35yo Lehmans at WOT except for a short period? No, no, no.
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Old 02-23-2016, 07:08 PM   #43
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How long is it safe to run Wide Open Throttle?

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Just curious. Does that tracker record?

I know signs mean nothing but, is it feasible to "warn" users they are being monitored and any use as described would mean automatic forfeiture of deposit?

Even tweaking the stops might not do the trick. A lot of us grew up with speedometers that could be disconnected on the old man's car.

Yes, the GPS tracker does have historical playback. That's actually how I saw it. I think I would start by just putting a label on the tach saying not to exceed 3100 (which is the continuous output rating).


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Old 02-23-2016, 07:10 PM   #44
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How long is it safe to run Wide Open Throttle?

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Read your engine manual.

Thanks. Found it today. Motors are approved for continuous output at 3110 RPM, out of the Max of 3200. Not much difference.


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Old 02-23-2016, 07:20 PM   #45
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How long is it safe to run Wide Open Throttle?

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Wifey B: Back to the OP and Chartering. Bareboat chartering would scare me. I know how we baby our boats. I know someone else wouldn't do it the same. We regularly check the engines and fluids while cruising. I know my hubby would never be comfortable doing so. I guess if it cut your ownership costs enough though it's worth it.



I'm curious. Is your boat in a charter group of some sort or individually chartered or how did you get into chartering it? How much is it chartered? Was it like easy to get it set up to be chartered?

Hi, it scares me too, but the boat is with Southwest Florida Yachts, where I was a customer for several years, and who have been in business 32 years. They do a good job. My goal is no more than 12 weeks a year of charter as after the tax loss from my LLC that makes the boat free... And I get to use it as often as I want.


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Old 02-23-2016, 07:33 PM   #46
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My goal is no more than 12 weeks a year of charter as after the tax loss from my LLC that makes the boat free... And I get to use it as often as I want.


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That scares me more than the WOT. Claiming tax losses on boat chartering is playing with fire, very hot fire. It's a very specifically targeted area by the IRS and has led to trouble for many.
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Old 02-23-2016, 07:37 PM   #47
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Through a charter fleet service? Pretty common for decades...


Different than privately owned or corporate owned and used for "business" deductions.
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Old 02-23-2016, 07:49 PM   #48
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How long is it safe to run Wide Open Throttle?

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Through a charter fleet service? Pretty common for decades...


Different than privately owned or corporate owned and used for "business" deductions.

Yes, and I pay tax on the time I use it, as if I were a customer. And it is common and quite defensible.


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Old 02-23-2016, 07:50 PM   #49
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How long is it safe to run Wide Open Throttle?

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That scares me more than the WOT. Claiming tax losses on boat chartering is playing with fire, very hot fire. It's a very specifically targeted area by the IRS and has led to trouble for many.

No need for you to fear anything. : )


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Old 02-23-2016, 07:56 PM   #50
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Yes, and I pay tax on the time I use it, as if I were a customer. And it is common and quite defensible.


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Have had some close friends that have had boats through fleet charters...never an issue with the IRS and what they wanted out of the deal.


Now the guys who kept using their boat for business deductions after the 90's...not so lucky....
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Old 02-23-2016, 08:19 PM   #51
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Have had some close friends that have had boats through fleet charters...never an issue with the IRS and what they wanted out of the deal.


Now the guys who kept using their boat for business deductions after the 90's...not so lucky....
I haven't had close friends who do it at all. I don't personally know anyone who charters although I've been a charter customer many times and know several people in the charter booking side of things well. We did have chartering suggested to us by those same people but we said "no" without discussing it. So, in actual experience and friends who have done it, you're far ahead of me.

With him doing it within fleet charters, I'm sure they're doing all they can to comply and I'm sure he's been advised by a knowledgeable tax accountant. The fact he is reporting his personal use in the way he is probably does help. Perhaps that is keeping him from having a net taxable loss. It is my understanding that regardless of how it's set up if it never reports a profit, they may...and note I use the word may, not will...attempt to deny the losses. It's a normal section 183 audit. Now, there are those who think that those audits are only done on those reporting schedule C losses and that is the primary target. However, LLC's still may be targeted and questioned.

Again, it sounds like he's gotten sound advice and being careful to comply. This is one of those areas that the exact details are the key so two situations that appear to be the same on the surface, are very different in the details and that's why one passes and the other doesn't.

If it results in free boating, then it sounds good and certainly worth jumping through whatever hoops are required.
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Old 02-23-2016, 08:32 PM   #52
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It isn't "free boating" from what I understand.....it is "depreciated boating" but the only way some people could or would want to get in at a high level of ownership and be able to afford it piecemeal versus total initial outlay.


My very close friend wound up with a 39 sailing cat in decent shape. Still, he wound up with repowering after he took it over full time and a few other major expenses including a delivery captain to bring it from the islands to the states. Similar to a couple others I know.


Free? Not even close but definitely discounted with the price being only partial use for a great number of those years...but like most people...time shares work out better in the long run because they don't have the time to enjoys "other" places in life at the time except for a limited amount.
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Old 02-23-2016, 08:58 PM   #53
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It isn't "free boating" from what I understand.....it is "depreciated boating" but the only way some people could or would want to get in at a high level of ownership and be able to afford it piecemeal versus total initial outlay.


My very close friend wound up with a 39 sailing cat in decent shape. Still, he wound up with repowering after he took it over full time and a few other major expenses including a delivery captain to bring it from the islands to the states. Similar to a couple others I know.


Free? Not even close but definitely discounted with the price being only partial use for a great number of those years...but like most people...time shares work out better in the long run because they don't have the time to enjoys "other" places in life at the time except for a limited amount.
I heard a woman convincing her husband to consider a time share arrangement. Her question was "how much do you think we'll use the boat anyway." His answer was "I'd like to use it all the time." Obviously the follow up question was "but how much will we really". The answer to that was "4 weeks a year, if we're lucky." That brief conversation told them that time share made sense.
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Old 02-23-2016, 09:52 PM   #54
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How do you know the charterer did not have a favorable current from say, and incoming tide? How much speed difference is there between 3100 and 3200 rpm?
Every charter we did the check ride capt said "do not exceed X rpm", to which we adhered.
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Old 02-23-2016, 10:06 PM   #55
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How long is it safe to run Wide Open Throttle?

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It isn't "free boating" from what I understand.....it is "depreciated boating" but the only way some people could or would want to get in at a high level of ownership and be able to afford it piecemeal versus total initial outlay.


My very close friend wound up with a 39 sailing cat in decent shape. Still, he wound up with repowering after he took it over full time and a few other major expenses including a delivery captain to bring it from the islands to the states. Similar to a couple others I know.


Free? Not even close but definitely discounted with the price being only partial use for a great number of those years...but like most people...time shares work out better in the long run because they don't have the time to enjoys "other" places in life at the time except for a limited amount.


Indeed, "free" is not the right word. Section 179 Bonus depreciation which was made permanent in 2015 affords a one-time, completely legit depreciation of the full cost of the equipment placed into service up to $500K, and the loss is allowed to reduce "all other sources of taxable income", be it W2 or any other source. For me, the one time tax savings allowed me to put what would otherwise have been tax money into the "kitty" of a charter business LLC instead. I will slowly burn through my kitty as charter revenue isn't enough to cover all costs each year. And I certainly could be audited, as I have been before, but I am not afraid of what the outcome would be. One needs to be careful and do it correctly, but it is indeed legal.



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Old 02-23-2016, 10:08 PM   #56
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How long is it safe to run Wide Open Throttle?

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How do you know the charterer did not have a favorable current from say, and incoming tide? How much speed difference is there between 3100 and 3200 rpm?
Every charter we did the check ride capt said "do not exceed X rpm", to which we adhered.

There would be almost no difference between 3100 and 3200, and now that I know 3100 is "Yanmar approved", I am far less concerned than I was yesterday when I didn't know the manufacturer ratings.


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Old 02-25-2016, 08:03 AM   #57
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IF full bore is 3200RPM, I would post a sign for 2800RPM as max .
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Old 02-25-2016, 06:19 PM   #58
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IF full bore is 3200RPM, I would post a sign for 2800RPM as max .

Yes, because the charters always follow the rules.
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Old 02-26-2016, 10:54 AM   #59
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Diesel engines vary on the length of time it's prudent to operate at maximum capacity. Check with the diesel engine's maker regarding your particular engine.
Let's not bring logic or common sense into this. You could kill the entire thread!

To the OP: I would be pretty pissed off at anyone who did this to my boat.
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Old 02-26-2016, 10:59 AM   #60
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.............and in 13 years of being a rapid response guy on the water in a very busy area...never heard of one of the go fasts in an incident either from collision or wake in my area. Speed alone usually isn't automatically a causal factor in accidents.
Two guys were killed in a go-fast boat on the Chesapeake Bay a few years ago when it flipped. Estimates were that it was going 180 MPH. As I recall, they were builders and were testing the boat.
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