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Old 11-16-2015, 09:33 PM   #1
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HELP lehman 120 died on sudden deceleration

Hey guys I have twin 120 H 380 cu.in. Lehman, in close to factory spec. not new but well taken care of. Today all was well doing 1800 and running 8-9 knots for 6 hrs. She was purring along with her sister when I came to a out of nowhere No Wake and like an idiot I cut down fast and washed a little. The port died in 4 sec. the other just keep on. I tried to crank, no go. I have checked all the first problem, fuel (no trash or air) elec. (start switch to alt.) all is as right as I can tell. I had to pull in to get medical assistance so I'll be here till Wednesday morning. we are all poor in some way but I really don't want to pay 175.00hr. if someone on this treasure cove can help. Any Ideas?

I'm in Brunswick, GA heading for Houston and have to be back by Christmas or sleeping in my bed will qualify for Combat pay.
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Old 11-16-2015, 09:44 PM   #2
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Just to clarify: When you slowed down they both really fell down in RPM and the one did die completely ?

Does each engine run off one tank, Or are they separate (tank for each engine).

Did you recently mess with wiring under the dash? Or on the engines? Secondary Fuel pump?

Does the other engine run fine now?

Any mechanic would change the fuel filters. (All of them). Primary, secondary, one on block.... All of them first. Both sides. When did you last fill up? When did you last check your water separators?
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Old 11-16-2015, 09:54 PM   #3
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Check your fuel shutoff solenoid-make sure its energized. I'm assuming it will turn over with the starter.
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Old 11-16-2015, 10:08 PM   #4
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yea, as above, does starter spin over engine as normal?
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Old 11-16-2015, 10:46 PM   #5
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While you try to start it wiggle the gear lever to make sure it's truly in neutral.

If it still doesn't start you are going to have to go step by step in an orderly fashion to find the fault.

Starting by testing the neutral lock out circuit, make sure the fuel cutout solenoid used to stop the engine is not some how stuck engaged and then moving on to fuel flow.

I would not just start changing fuel filters willy nilly. First use the manual priming pump and see if you have fuel to the injection pump.

Your engine should not stall just because you chop the throttles.
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Old 11-16-2015, 11:17 PM   #6
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When you slowed could water have gotten up your exhaust and flooded her? (Do you have floppers on your exhaust?)

Throwing that out there ... will hush now.

Edit to add: not flooded. Water aka hydrolock?

And good luck.
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Old 11-16-2015, 11:47 PM   #7
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ok

It spins normally, yes I would think water washed in ( no flappers) full of fuel polished and the other engine is fine. I checked the throttle and neutral both functional and engaging as designed. I am checking for hydrolock in the morning. All new filters with fill up. I will check the throttle solenoid. Lots of ideas so ill be busy. I will let ya'll know how it goes.

Mike
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Old 11-17-2015, 12:22 AM   #8
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If the starter spins the engine normally I would think a hydrolock would not be the problem. Is the exhaust run from the lift muffler (I am assuming there is one) to the transom sloped down toward the transom or level? I would be a bit surprised if a wake washing up into your stern would send water all the way up the exhaust hose, through the waterlift muffler, and into the engine, but I guess that would depend entirely on the configuration of the boat's exhaust system.

Also, if you spend some time cranking the engine without having it start as you are determining the problem don't forget that this can fill the exhaust system with raw water since there there won't be any exhaust pushing it out. Depending on the design of the exhaust run this could conceivably cause raw water to build up to the point where it can enter the exhaust manifold and some of the cylinders.

The photo is the exhaust system on our starboard engine. We had this layout designed and fabricated when the system that was on the boat when we bought it began to rust out. Note that the fiberglass lift muffler has a drain at the bottom that can be used to free the muffler of water if for some reason the engine has to be turned over in multiple attempts without starting.
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Old 11-17-2015, 02:30 AM   #9
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Fuel. In fact I'll bet if it's not a filter it's the lift pump. They fail. Do you have an electric pump inline for bleeding? If so, start it and check for flow after the secondary filter. Crack a line. If no electric, crack the same line and hand pump the lift pump. Let us know?
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Old 11-17-2015, 06:07 AM   #10
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With the fuel supply camp of thought with one more twist.

If it is cranking normally and the fuel stop cutoff is in the normal run position, nothing sucked into or over the air inrake...then my bet is then air in the fuel system.

Tighten all fittings from tank/manifold to fuel pump, then bleed from same point all the way to injector pump.

I have had a loose fitting on the pump cause a no start situation.
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Old 11-17-2015, 06:48 AM   #11
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I am with the last two posters but lean towards the fuel pump. Better check your oil level too. If the lift pump is bad it may be filling the crankcase.
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Old 11-17-2015, 07:22 AM   #12
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Yup, if the other things are checked ok, sounds like a fuel flow or a fuel pressure issue. Cracked line, fuel supply pump or loose fitting maybe. Hopefully not an injection pump, (more spends.) systematically check the easy and less expensive things first.
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Old 11-17-2015, 08:51 AM   #13
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I would not mess with the filters just yet as that just adds unnecessary variables. If the filters were dirty and not allowing fuel to flow you would notice this at speed where fuel flow is higher due to engine demands as opposed to idle (most of the time engines run fine at idle with clogged filters at first but won't flow enough fuel to run at cruse speed).

I would go through a complete step by step bleeding, first at the on engine filters all the way to the rack and then several injectors. If you don't have copy of the written bleeding procedure get one, by the time you do this you should know the condition of your fuel pump and it's ability to flow fuel and the entire fuel systems ability to flow fuel to the injectors.

If this works great, but something is not right with Mr. Henry, the engine should not have stopped when you reduced the throttle so don't just be merrily on your way, you have had what we call a hint of things to come and the next time Mr. Murphy will most likely be aboard.

Ye Oldie mechanical diesels that are running fine one min, then die (quietly without trauma, ie not mechanically) are 99.8% of the time fuel related.
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Old 11-17-2015, 10:20 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt.Bill11 View Post
While you try to start it wiggle the gear lever to make sure it's truly in neutral.

If it still doesn't start you are going to have to go step by step in an orderly fashion to find the fault.

Starting by testing the neutral lock out circuit, make sure the fuel cutout solenoid used to stop the engine is not some how stuck engaged and then moving on to fuel flow.

I would not just start changing fuel filters willy nilly. First use the manual priming pump and see if you have fuel to the injection pump.

Your engine should not stall just because you chop the throttles.
if the lift muffler is full of water it will not start, to much back pressure?
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Old 11-17-2015, 11:32 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by capt jerry View Post
if the lift muffler is full of water it will not start, to much back pressure?
Highly unlikely.
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Old 11-17-2015, 12:15 PM   #16
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Bill is right. Furthermore, excess cranking can fill the muffler with water and eventually back-fill into the cylinders so be cautious. Back pressure will not inhibit a start. Just re-stating.
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Old 11-17-2015, 06:43 PM   #17
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Until you can get it to start, close sea cock. Once you get it sorted, open it back up, AND DON'T FORGET!! This will keep muffler from overfilling while cranking and that can back flood engine with water.

My vote too is for air in fuel or failed stupid lift pump. Try a bleed and see what you get. Good Luck!!
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Old 11-17-2015, 07:22 PM   #18
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Highly unlikely.
had it happen to me the mufller got full of water and the engine would turn over but would not start. this was on a 671 dd drained the muf and it cranked right up.the reason the muf filled up was from loading a fuel tank on one side and the other one was empty and the boat was leaning way over and the sae water came up the exaust and filled the lift muf up but not the engine. pulled the plug on the lift muf drained it and fired right up . so it ims possible?
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Old 11-17-2015, 09:38 PM   #19
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had it happen to me the mufller got full of water and the engine would turn over but would not start. this was on a 671 dd drained the muf and it cranked right up.the reason the muf filled up was from loading a fuel tank on one side and the other one was empty and the boat was leaning way over and the sae water came up the exaust and filled the lift muf up but not the engine. pulled the plug on the lift muf drained it and fired right up . so it ims possible?
Highly unlikely in this case.
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Old 11-17-2015, 11:10 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marin View Post
The photo is the exhaust system on our starboard engine. We had this layout designed and fabricated when the system that was on the boat when we bought it began to rust out. Note that the fiberglass lift muffler has a drain at the bottom that can be used to free the muffler of water if for some reason the engine has to be turned over in multiple attempts without starting.
I am interested in that drain at the bottom of your water lift muffler. I too have a Vernier and like the idea of being able to drain it. How'd you do that? Anything I need to know about the fitting?

And thanks..
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