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Old 11-17-2015, 11:16 PM   #21
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had it happen to me the mufller got full of water and the engine would turn over but would not start. this was on a 671 dd drained the muf and it cranked right up.the reason the muf filled up was from loading a fuel tank on one side and the other one was empty and the boat was leaning way over and the sae water came up the exaust and filled the lift muf up but not the engine. pulled the plug on the lift muf drained it and fired right up . so it ims possible?
This is a unique problem with a DD two stroke. If muffler is full when cranking, the scavenging blower at cranking speed leaks by enough that it cannot create enough pressure to blow out the muffler. Causes a no-start. Common in Vikings and other DD boats with water lift mufflers.

This problem will NOT occur with a four stroke. They will blow plenty hard on exhaust stroke to purge the muffler.
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Old 11-17-2015, 11:47 PM   #22
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I am interested in that drain at the bottom of your water lift muffler. I too have a Vernier and like the idea of being able to drain it. How'd you do that? Anything I need to know about the fitting?

And thanks..
The fiberglass water lift mufflers on our boat were custom made by Unicraft Marine Products in Bellingham, WA. The company has more recently moved up the road a bit to Ferndale and has changed its name to MJ Marine Exhaust Systems.

We were told by the diesel shop that designed our new exhaust layout, had the mufflers made and installed them that they will last more or less forever.

Unicraft installed drains as a matter of course; I can't speak for MJ Marine Exhaust Systems but I would assume they do, too. The originals were petcocks as shown in my photo. I have not yet had occasion to actually use one but every year or so I'd give them a twist to make sure they still worked.

After a bunch of years I twisted one and it rotated in its barrel instead of screwing open. So I contacted Unicraft and asked if the drain could be replaced. The owner told me that he no longer used the petcock design in large part because of what I had just experienced. Instead he had switched to a simple stainless screw-in plug design. He came to the boat and installed the new-type drain in both our mufflers at no charge.
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Old 11-18-2015, 12:02 AM   #23
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Instead he had switched to a simple stainless screw-in plug design. He came to the boat and installed the new-type drain in both our mufflers at no charge.
Our Ceteks have a drain plug also. Gosh Marin, the Northern WA and BC builders are super, we've heard similar stories about Magnum, Norhtern Lights, Hurricane and Nick Jackson.
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Old 11-18-2015, 12:21 AM   #24
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I am interested in that drain at the bottom of your water lift muffler. I too have a Vernier and like the idea of being able to drain it. How'd you do that? Anything I need to know about the fitting?

And thanks..
Just drill and tap the muffler. Then put a plug or a ball valve in. I wouldn't use a petcock.
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Old 11-18-2015, 01:22 AM   #25
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Thank you gents. I suspect this is a Good Idea and inexpensive. Two of my favorites!
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Old 11-18-2015, 05:26 AM   #26
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Forgive me for going slightly off thread but 120 Ford Lehman's are the topic of conversation
We used several Ford 120's for driving pumps and compressors and noticed when doing daily oil checks the oil level instead of going down, began to rise slowly.
We found 2 causes,
1 was a cracked excess fuel pipe which runs between the injectors under the rocker cover, the joins are brazed and work harden, if they crack they cause a fuel leak, which being under the rocker cover, drains into the oil.
2, A perforated diaphragm seal on the lift pump will also cause the same symptoms.


I hope these tips are helpful.
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Old 11-18-2015, 07:28 AM   #27
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Anything I need to know about the fitting?

The ones I have seen use a std pipe plug .

No hassle to get a pipe to hose fitting and run a good hose to a ball valve for winterizing or just draining.

Remember just sitting the muffler is a source of sea water in constant contact with the engine and what ever cylinder is open.
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Old 11-18-2015, 09:14 AM   #28
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I like Capt Bill's suggestions.

I find it hard to believe that all these more complicated problems crop up all of a sudden just by chopping the throttles.
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Old 11-18-2015, 10:43 AM   #29
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Why has no one mentioned checking for fuel at the injectors before fixing stuff???
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Old 11-18-2015, 10:57 AM   #30
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Bill is right. Furthermore, excess cranking can fill the muffler with water and eventually back-fill into the cylinders so be cautious. Back pressure will not inhibit a start. Just re-stating.
i beg to differ, close the exaust pipe on you car and see if it will run???? if air cant get out it will not come in , to much back pressure?????????????
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Old 11-18-2015, 11:23 AM   #31
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Why has no one mentioned checking for fuel at the injectors before fixing stuff???

I did
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Old 11-18-2015, 11:41 AM   #32
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The fuel lift pump is mechanical, of course, so it's conceivable that cutting the throttle and rapidly reducing the engine rpm might have prompted something on the pump that was weak or failing anyway to go ahead and fail.
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Old 11-18-2015, 11:42 AM   #33
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We are not talking cars, gasoline engines or Detroit 2 strokes. The risk to filling a muffler is getting sea water in a cylinder causing hydroloc which can bend con rods, serious mechanical damage.
Compressing the fuel in a a Lehman will cause combustion. Period.
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Old 11-19-2015, 06:38 AM   #34
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There is a big difference between "just chopping the throttle" weather the engine is in gear or not.

Out of gear there should be no problem , however in gear the tranny , shafting and prop may have to be brought back to speed.

This is hundreds of pounds of inertia , so the chopped throttle the gov might not be quick enough to make fuel for the accelerations required to idle.
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Old 11-19-2015, 07:14 AM   #35
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This is hundreds of pounds of inertia , so the chopped throttle the gov might not be quick enough to make fuel for the accelerations required to idle.
Well you certainly confused me with this. I have no idea what you are trying to say.
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Old 11-19-2015, 08:08 AM   #36
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I think he should replace the anchor too before finding out what is actually wrong.
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Old 11-19-2015, 08:19 AM   #37
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Unloading a diesel engine can trip the overspeed solenoid, check that first.
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Old 11-19-2015, 09:03 AM   #38
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i beg to differ, close the exaust pipe on you car and see if it will run???? if air cant get out it will not come in , to much back pressure?????????????
Try that on a diesel powered car and report back.

You will need a shower and change of clothes after your hand is forced off the pipe and soot is blown all over you.

A four stroke diesel develops PLENTY of exhaust pressure to blow water out of the muffler. A full muffler will not cause a no start, but could back flood the engine with water if cranked too long.
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Old 11-19-2015, 10:06 AM   #39
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@Reissue. Any luck?

Does each engine run off a separate fuel tank? Or is it common? If they each run off different sides can you switch supply tank valves to run both off the side that didn't quit? At least that could eliminate a bad tank pickup or collapsed supply hose.

As others asked, does each engine have an aux inline fuel pump? One of the benefits of the aux fuel pump is it removes air from filter changes. But they also mask failing (ed) fuel lift pumps.
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Old 11-20-2015, 01:16 PM   #40
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The commentb was,"

There is a big difference between "just chopping the throttle" weather the engine is in gear or not.

Out of gear there should be no problem , however in gear the tranny , shafting and prop may have to be brought back to speed.

This is hundreds of pounds of inertia , so the chopped throttle the gov might not be quick enough to make fuel for the accelerations required to idle.

JL "Well you certainly confused me with this. I have no idea what you are trying to say."

When the throttle is chopped quickly the fuel to the engine is almost all shut off..

As the engine approaches idle it needs fuel to operate.

Additional fuel if in gear and the transmission and the rest of the drive train is at a low rpm, as the weight , therefore the inertia of stopped gear will add to the fuel required to idle.

Perhaps the gov was too slow on the uptake , so the engine stopped?

Early in the AM its easy to hear the cool weak engine slow down as it picks up the load of inertia as the engine is put in gear.

The boats with bigger 30-36+ inch props and 3 or 4 inch shafts will notice this the most.
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