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Old 07-23-2012, 08:56 PM   #1
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Heat transfer fluid? help..

Yes coolant but better..

someone had posted a link to a product.
i cant find the post or the link...

since i am flushing the system and putting in new coolant i figure why not go the distance and get this stuff...
(if i can find it again)
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Old 07-23-2012, 10:01 PM   #2
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Check your local solar supply houses.

Nothing is better at transferring heat than plain old freshwater but it does tend to dissolve the engine.

You may be launching an expensive experiment. I would chat with the engine manufacturer or a large industrial diesel dealer for information and advice.

There are many products on the market, they are used mostly for specialized applications because they are not inexpensive and are chosen for particular properties.
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Old 07-24-2012, 01:17 AM   #3
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I use water wetter in some of my hipo vehicles.

Amazon.com: Red Line 80204 Water Wetter - 12 oz.: Automotive

I am planning to try this.
Amazon.com: Royal Purple 01600 Purple Ice Super-Coolant Radiator Additive - 12 oz.: Automotive

Here's what a search turned up.
Amazon.com: water wetter: Automotive
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Old 07-24-2012, 06:04 AM   #4
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evanscoolant.edoperformance.com/

If you want to run higher temperatures.
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Old 07-24-2012, 09:53 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Per View Post
Yes coolant but better..

someone had posted a link to a product.
i cant find the post or the link...

since i am flushing the system and putting in new coolant i figure why not go the distance and get this stuff...
(if i can find it again)
I don't think you can go wrong with whatever the engine's manufacturer specifies for coolant. That coolant will not only cool the engine properly, it will have the necessary additives to prevent freezing, prevent corrosion, lubricate the pump, etc.

If you think you need a better product because the specified coolant is not cooling properly, you have a mechanical problem that needs to be addressed. It could be as simple as a defective thermostat or far more serious. A different coolant will not "fix" it.
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Old 07-24-2012, 12:18 PM   #6
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evanscoolant
BINGO

Evans Heavy Duty Coolant waterless coolant boils at 375 F and is a lifetime coolant.
It does NOT contain water, which means less corrosion.
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Old 07-24-2012, 01:22 PM   #7
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Is that Evan's coolant really worth the cost?One decent leak and you've lost a good bit of pocket change.
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Old 07-24-2012, 06:15 PM   #8
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If anyone is thinking of a "lifetime coolant" he better find out if all the additives are also "lifetime". And if the coolant manufacturer will pay for engine repairs if they are related to the coolant.
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Old 07-24-2012, 06:44 PM   #9
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BINGO

Evans Heavy Duty Coolant waterless coolant boils at 375 F and is a lifetime coolant.
It does NOT contain water, which means less corrosion.
If your engine gets that hot, coolant is the least of your worries.
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Old 07-24-2012, 06:55 PM   #10
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If your engine gets that hot, coolant is the least of your worries.
Thanks Rick, why is that?
lets define "that hot" = 240 deg Fahrenheit when water is no longer a good cooling medium.
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Old 07-24-2012, 07:11 PM   #11
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What does your engine operator's manual state as the maximum coolant temperature leaving the block?

I would be surprised if it was more than a degree or two over 200*F with an absolute maximum of around 215. At that temperature you are really cooking the lube oil and seals not to mention getting some pretty radical hotspots on the pistons, valves, and liners. That is approaching or at seizure temperatures for many engines.

When a liner overheats it begins to create "micro-seizures" between the rings and cylinder wall that pull off little tiny chunks of metal and start a downhill ride to a grinding halt. The engine will probably restart after cooling but the damage won't go away and will inevitably lead to another even more damaging event further down the channel.

In my opinion, looking for a way to exceed the manufacturer's limits is not a real good idea.
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Old 07-24-2012, 07:18 PM   #12
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In my opinion, looking for a way to exceed the manufacturer's limits is not a real good idea.
i am not looking to exceed the manufacturers limits.
just being overcautious in case of an overheating issue.
if your engine overheats this coolant will keep cooling.
water based coolant will expand, blow steam in your engine and make cracks in big blocks of iron.
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Old 07-24-2012, 07:47 PM   #13
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I don't want to get into a pointless discussion but how did this engine get to 240* to begin with if it didn't lose its coolant?

If it got that hot because the moving parts are grinding together then it is toast anyway so having it filled with superhot liquid coolant isn't going to make it last any longer.

Just for fun, compare the heat removal capacity of your heat exchanger in a given unit of time with the amount of heat that is removed from the engine by evaporating a gallon of water in the same time.
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Old 07-24-2012, 07:49 PM   #14
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It hasn't been explained yet how, if standard coolant approved by the engine manufacturer does the job, how can something else be "better"?

Do you get more power? Better fuel mileage? Longer engine life?
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Old 07-24-2012, 08:17 PM   #15
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my engine(s) did not get that hot
you guys are probably over interpreting as there is no problem.
i am doing my heat exchangers this fall and instead of using old technology i am interested in using this stuff, it has some very strong abilities to cool and it does not contain water so no electrolysis and no corrosion, lifetime product, expensive up front but from the sounds of it cheaper long term.
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Old 07-24-2012, 08:47 PM   #16
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I think Rick and Ron are making excellent points well worth heeding. If an engine manufacturer says fine, use the expensive waterless stuff, then fine, go ahead and use it. But assuming that because it has two properties--- no water and the ability to go to 375 degrees-- there are no other coolant properties that are important to your engine might be a mistake.

Also, I rather like the fact that if one of our engines starts to overheat it will quickly start blowing coolant and steam because we will smell it immediately at the helm directly above the engines (we never drive from the flying bridge and this is one reason why) and be able to do something about it before the engine destroys itself from overheating,which as Rick said will occur long, long before the engine gets to 375 degrees.

While our engines have overheat alarms I learned years ago that the primary purpose of an alarm is to tell you that the component it is guarding has just failed catastrophically. So alarms are nice to have but I don't put my total faith in them.

As to the cost issue, the trend today seems to be to not replace coolant on a schedule--- every year or two years or whatever--- but to test it to see if it's properties are still intact. If they are, don't change it. The test is apparently a simple thing that takes just a few minutes. So where convention may have you changing coolant on a regular basis, it may be that you can actually go a long, long time with the coolant that's in the engine now.

So there is an element of "if it ain't broke don't fix it" here. I think Rick is correct in saying that the fancy expensive "high-tech" coolant won't make your engines run any better. And when you consider the potential downsides--- it might not even be right for your engine and it may reduce the chances of your catching an overheat in time to prevent engine damage--- it might be smarter to stick with what the engine manufacturer recommended to begin with.

If we were talking gas engines here it might not matter. If your experiment didn't work you can buy a new engine for cheap. But given the cost of repairing or replacing a marinized diesel I would be reluctant to experiment with it without the manufacturer's blessing.

PS-- When you say no water so no electroysis, are you talking about the heat exchanger? Because if you are, your coolant may not have water in it but I'm pretty sure the salt water the raw water system is pushing through it has water in it. In fact, that's the water that will facilitate electrolysis if there is a problem of that type on your boat.
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Old 07-24-2012, 10:10 PM   #17
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Quote:
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my engine(s) did not get that hot
you guys are probably over interpreting as there is no problem.
I don't think we believe there is a problem or that you had one in the past, it is just that you appear to have found a solution that is looking for a problem.

It is great that the stuff won't boil until 375* but by that time you won't have an engine worth cooling anyway.

There probably isn't any real downside to using the stuff as long as your engine isn't under warranty and it is not harmful (which it probably isn't) but I just don't see an upside to it in this application. If you don't mind the expense and want to experiment, that's cool but it won't save your engine from coolant loss due to the failed pumps and heat exchangers or leaking hoses and fittings that normally cause overheating.

Like I said earlier, if that engine gets to 375* with a full load of coolant, you just got a new mooring anchor.

Marin had a great point about the scent of boiling coolant serving a very useful purpose as a last chance watchdog. That is kind of related to what I was alluding to, if the coolant is boiling, it won't rise above that temperature until it is all gone, the heat goes away with the steam rather than staying in the engine block. When it all boils away, then the engine grinds to a halt. That's why boiler tubes don't melt and steam locomotives can handle a firebox hot enough to melt steel, boiling is good.
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Old 07-25-2012, 06:34 AM   #18
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"And if the coolant manufacturer will pay for engine repairs if they are related to the coolant."

Sure , just like Prestone does.

The purpose of the new coolant is two fold .

For OTR trucks the use of different thermostats allows a higher operating temperature , which aids efficiency.A 3% to 5% increase is usefull at 120,000 miles a year.

For old boats the coolant will only help if the engine is operated hard , seldom a trawler problem.

The usual trawler tractor marinization can not hold its rating (full power for hours may cost the engine) unlike a genuine marine engine with a 24/7 rating.

At high loads one problem that can destroy the engine from overheating is "Steam Pockets" which form usually in the cylinder head.
This local overheating can crack the head , the waterless coolant is insurance against this possibility.

For most folks chugging at 3GPH good old Prestone and distilled water is all you need.

BUT Prestone and other mfg recommend changing the stuff and flushing every 2 or 3 years .

Folks with modern engines may have cylinder walls exposed to the coolant (rather than in a sleeve) and will require a better grade of anti-freez with anti cavitation additives ( SCA ), and a coolant monitoring kit.

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Old 07-25-2012, 01:09 PM   #19
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Thanks FF...
Water does well cooling up until it boils at 100 C, then it (to my knowledge) has no cooling abilities whatsoever. Not only that, the air produced in the vaporization process will act as an insulation barrier which will only add to the problem.
At which temp does actual damage occur to a diesel engine?
Statement from an article @ Evans
Quote:
In the future large fleets will be specifying equipment to be delivered with Evans HDTC in the cooling system and to be equipped with 205 F thermostats and programmed for fan-on at 230 F.
Unquote

What I am reading over and over is that the reason the max recommended operating temp of your engine is 210 degrees is NOT due to the actual limits of the engine, rather it is due to the fact that the cooling system stops cooling at this temp, simply because it is based on water.

Lets stop basing statements on assumptions and instead bring facts to the table.

Rick, please inform me where you have the facts that diesel engines become anchors if operated above 240 F or whatever temp actual failure occur.
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Old 07-25-2012, 01:37 PM   #20
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I think Rick and Ron are making excellent points well worth heeding. If an engine manufacturer says fine, use the expensive waterless stuff, then fine, go ahead and use it. But assuming that because it has two properties--- no water and the ability to go to 375 degrees-- there are no other coolant properties that are important to your engine might be a mistake.

Also, I rather like the fact that if one of our engines starts to overheat it will quickly start blowing coolant and steam because we will smell it immediately at the helm directly above the engines (we never drive from the flying bridge and this is one reason why) and be able to do something about it before the engine destroys itself from overheating,which as Rick said will occur long, long before the engine gets to 375 degrees.

While our engines have overheat alarms I learned years ago that the primary purpose of an alarm is to tell you that the component it is guarding has just failed catastrophically. So alarms are nice to have but I don't put my total faith in them.

As to the cost issue, the trend today seems to be to not replace coolant on a schedule--- every year or two years or whatever--- but to test it to see if it's properties are still intact. If they are, don't change it. The test is apparently a simple thing that takes just a few minutes. So where convention may have you changing coolant on a regular basis, it may be that you can actually go a long, long time with the coolant that's in the engine now.

So there is an element of "if it ain't broke don't fix it" here. I think Rick is correct in saying that the fancy expensive "high-tech" coolant won't make your engines run any better. And when you consider the potential downsides--- it might not even be right for your engine and it may reduce the chances of your catching an overheat in time to prevent engine damage--- it might be smarter to stick with what the engine manufacturer recommended to begin with.

If we were talking gas engines here it might not matter. If your experiment didn't work you can buy a new engine for cheap. But given the cost of repairing or replacing a marinized diesel I would be reluctant to experiment with it without the manufacturer's blessing.

PS-- When you say no water so no electroysis, are you talking about the heat exchanger? Because if you are, your coolant may not have water in it but I'm pretty sure the salt water the raw water system is pushing through it has water in it. In fact, that's the water that will facilitate electrolysis if there is a problem of that type on your boat.
Rather backwards way of saying, "I would rather use a lessor quality product because if it fails I can smell when it happens".

I guess you must have experienced an overheat failure on your boat since you know that you could smell the antifreeze boiling and your alarm did not activate. I guess we now know why you dont like to drive from the bridge, you dont know when your engine(s) are cooking up a boil..why not just look at the gauges from time to time?

Electrolysis occur also inside the engine, inside the coolant channels.
(if you use a water based coolant that is..)
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