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Old 07-25-2012, 02:02 PM   #21
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Rick, please inform me where you have the facts that diesel engines become anchors if operated above 240 F or whatever temp actual failure occur.
Never said any such thing. Read my posts ...

"Like I said earlier, if that engine gets to 375* with a full load of coolant, you just got a new mooring anchor."

What do you think is the most likely reason your engine might overheat? If loss of coolant circulation or raw water flow is among them then what does it matter what the boiling temperature of the coolant is?

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Water does well cooling up until it boils at 100 C, then it (to my knowledge) has no cooling abilities whatsoever.
Quite the opposite occurs. Why do you suppose it is possible to boil water over an open flame in a paper cup?

Where do you think all that heat goes?

If you use a 15 psi radiator cap and 50 percent glycol/water mix which is pretty standard, the coolant won't boil until 260*F and the more you decrease the water the higher the boiling temperature but the lower the heat transfer rate. You might find it interesting to check the heat transfer rate of the stuff you find so compelling.

So go ahead and buy the no-water coolant if that is what you want. You don't need anyone else's permission and don't seem to want to hear reasons why it isn't necessarily worthwhile so why keep asking?
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Old 07-25-2012, 02:07 PM   #22
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I guess you must have experienced an overheat failure on your boat since you know that you could smell the antifreeze boiling and your alarm did not activate. I guess we now know why you dont like to drive from the bridge, you dont know when your engine(s) are cooking up a boil..why not just look at the gauges from time to time?
Boy, you can be as bad as FlyWright when it comes to making baseless assumptions. Must be a California thing-- the east coasters don't seem to have the problem.

Yes, we have had overheats on an engine, due to raw water through hull blockages and once a failed coolant pump gasket (on the delivery trip after first getting the boat at which time we were driving from the flying bridge and--- gasp--- monitoring the gauges).

In each case we saw what was happening on the gauges long before the temperature reached any sort of danger point or even activated an alarm. Seeing the temperature rise trend on the gauge, we shut the engine down, tied off the shaft, and finished the run on the other engine.

In additon to what we saw happening on the gauge, we also smelled the coolant when we were in the main cabin which confirmed what we saw developing on the instrument was correct.

Because it's very easy to get distracted on a boat by the scenery or navigation or talking to other people we have a little pushubtton timer at the helm set for five minutes. It goes off, whoever's driving checks all the gauges, and resets the timer. I actually scan the instruments far more often than every five minutes, but the timer is good insurance.

Our gauges all have hash marks at their normal settings so it's even easier to tell at a glance if everything is normal or if something is starting to act up.

We don't drive the boat from the flying bridge because we both hate the sight picture from up there in terms of maneuvering the boat. Also, we averted an electrical fire (failing intercom/loud hailer unit) by being down below where my wife smelled the short or whatever it was and we quickly located the source and shut off the unit. When we pulled the unit out later the case was melted and the wood surrounding it was scorched and charred. Why it conintued functioning as this was happening I have no idea. But our first indication something was wrong was the smell. Had we been driving from up above, the first we may have known about the problem might have been the flames.

So next time, before jumping to incorrect conclusions, ask a few questions first. What you learn may surprise you.
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Old 07-25-2012, 02:18 PM   #23
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Rather backwards way of saying, "I would rather use a lessor quality product because if it fails I can smell when it happens".
Simply put, my point is, if standard coolant meets the manufacturer's requirements and does the job, there can be no practical imrovement. A 340 degree boiling point is irrelevant, because the engine will not reach that temperature and continue to run. The lack of water is irrelevant because the engine has been designed to run on a 50/50 mixture of coolanrt and water.

There will always be companies trying to sell people "better" or "improved" products at a higher cost, but unless there's a demonstrated improvement in longevity, reliability, efficiency, etc., there is no advantage to using them. It's just a way to get money from your pocket to theirs. Think of the magnets designed to align the fuel molecules, the carb adapters that supposedly mix the air and fuel better, the $300 air cleaners that are supposed to charge the air, nitrogen filled tires at $5 a pop, etc.

Now if you want to argue that it's beneficial to mix standard coolant with distilled water as opposed to tap water at a cost of $.89 per gallon, I will agree with you. I use three gallons when I replace my coolant.
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Old 07-25-2012, 02:26 PM   #24
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Quite the opposite occurs. Why do you suppose it is possible to boil water over an open flame in a paper cup?

Where do you think all that heat goes?

water does well absorbing heat, and actually during or at the vaporization point process a lot of energy is absorbed but once the water is vaporized there is no longer any heat absorption. however apply this to your diesel engine and gasses are formed inside your engine with local air forming and creating local hot spots which usually is to blame for cylinder head cracks.


If you use a 15 psi radiator cap and 50 percent glycol/water mix which is pretty standard, the coolant won't boil until 260*F and the more you decrease the water the higher the boiling temperature but the lower the heat transfer rate. You might find it interesting to check the heat transfer rate of the stuff you find so compelling.

Noted, and good point - I will check.
And worthwhile noting that another compelling pro of this product is that it needs not be under pressure and hence is much less likely to blow gaskets, seals etc.
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Old 07-25-2012, 02:48 PM   #25
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Now if you want to argue that it's beneficial to mix standard coolant with distilled water as opposed to tap water at a cost of $.89 per gallon, I will agree with you. I use three gallons when I replace my coolant.
Not questioning your statement, I simply don't know. What are the advantages of using distilled water in a 50:50 coolant mix as opposed to tap water? And is the quality of the tap water a factor? Because around here, everyone I'm aware of uses regular tap water not only to mix with coolant but in batteries. Even the battery suppliers say that in this area, tap water is fine. (They do say that in other places, it may not be fine.)

Thanks.
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Old 07-25-2012, 02:53 PM   #26
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Not questioning your statement, I simply don't know. What are the advantages of using distilled water in a 50:50 coolant mix as opposed to tap water? And is the quality of the tap water a factor? Because around here, everyone I'm aware of uses regular tap water not only to mix with coolant but in batteries. Even the battery suppliers say that in this area, tap water is fine. (They do say that in other places, it may not be fine.)

Thanks.

I only use distilled water.The chemicals used here to treat water scales up the radiator and block in vehicles.It also seems to break down coolants used in cars.I don't drink our water.I rarely eat at home because of it and I make sure my showers are quick as possible.
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Old 07-25-2012, 04:06 PM   #27
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Not questioning your statement, I simply don't know. What are the advantages of using distilled water in a 50:50 coolant mix as opposed to tap water? And is the quality of the tap water a factor? Because around here, everyone I'm aware of uses regular tap water not only to mix with coolant but in batteries. Even the battery suppliers say that in this area, tap water is fine. (They do say that in other places, it may not be fine.)

Thanks.
Distilled water is pure. No chemicals or minerals. Tap water may introduce something that can harm the system or interact with the coolant.

It's less than $3.00 for me to be certain.
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Old 07-25-2012, 04:08 PM   #28
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Quite the opposite occurs. Why do you suppose it is possible to boil water over an open flame in a paper cup?

Where do you think all that heat goes?

water does well absorbing heat, and actually during or at the vaporization point process a lot of energy is absorbed but once the water is vaporized there is no longer any heat absorption. however apply this to your diesel engine and gasses are formed inside your engine with local air forming and creating local hot spots which usually is to blame for cylinder head cracks.


If you use a 15 psi radiator cap and 50 percent glycol/water mix which is pretty standard, the coolant won't boil until 260*F and the more you decrease the water the higher the boiling temperature but the lower the heat transfer rate. You might find it interesting to check the heat transfer rate of the stuff you find so compelling.

Noted, and good point - I will check.
And worthwhile noting that another compelling pro of this product is that it needs not be under pressure and hence is much less likely to blow gaskets, seals etc.
If one wants to argue science, fine, but there is no need for anything more than the approved coolant in a stock boat (or car) engine.
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Old 07-25-2012, 04:19 PM   #29
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Distilled water is pure. No chemicals or minerals. Tap water may introduce something that can harm the system or interact with the coolant.

It's less than $3.00 for me to be certain.
Thanks much.
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Old 07-25-2012, 06:49 PM   #30
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If one wants to argue science, fine, but there is no need for anything more than the approved coolant in a stock boat (or car) engine.
you are probably not wrong however if there is better for a reasonable cost, then i want better.

http://www.evanscooling.com/assets/U...le-June-09.pdf
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Old 07-26-2012, 08:06 AM   #31
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The 50 50 mix is usually for cars with 15lb pressure caps, not boats.

On many boats the pressure cap is 2-5lbs and using pressure to operate at over boiling te,peratures is never seen.

35% antifreeze the rest distilled water will give the coolant the corrosion resistance needed.

The antifreez is only 3/5 effective at moving heat , so the extra water in the mix is a cooling help.

Folks that need the 50/50 anti-freez protection , -35F are probably not on this board.

Perhaps there are some towns that have good enough water to use in cooling systems or better water that is battery grade.

But the tests for minerals would only be for one location, on one day.

At a buck a gal, distilled water is the cheapest insurance a boater can purchase.

For a cruiser its mandatory.



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Old 07-26-2012, 09:51 AM   #32
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The 50 50 mix is usually for cars with 15lb pressure caps, not boats.

On many boats the pressure cap is 2-5lbs and using pressure to operate at over boiling te,peratures is never seen.

Folks that need the 50/50 anti-freez protection , -35F are probably not on this board.
It's not about freeze protection. Changing the mix changes the boiling point at any pressure.

Pure ethylene glycol antifreeze boils at 386*F at atmospheric pressure so it is no different than the high priced stuff in that respect.

A 50/50 mix boils at 225*F at atmospheric pressure. At 15 psi it boils at 265*F.

You can mix the stuff to meet the maximum temperature you want and 50/50 is what 99 percent of the world uses as a practical compromise.

The bottom line is the higher the percentage, the higher the boiling point at any pressure but the less the heat transfer capacity. While it transfers less heat, it is thicker and harder to pump at the same time it needs to flow faster to achieve the same rate of heat removal.

Like I wrote before, this whole thing is another solution looking for a problem. It seems to have originated with truck drivers who have nothing else to think about while blocking the high speed lane.
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Old 07-26-2012, 07:22 PM   #33
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Volvo, the manufacturer of my boat's engine recommends a 50/50 mix of "Volvo Special Coolant" and distilled water.

That works for me.
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Old 07-26-2012, 07:24 PM   #34
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you are probably not wrong however if there is better for a reasonable cost, then i want better.
My point is, as far as your engine is concerned, there is nothing better. In your mind, perhaps, but not in your engine.

Let's look at this a different way: If the engine manufaturer specifies grade 2 bolts for a specific application, is there anything to be gained by using grade 8 bolts? The answer is, no.
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