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Old 01-11-2013, 10:01 PM   #81
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I remember when I was shopping for a re-power engine one of the runner ups was the Yanmar JH 55hp 4 cyl. At that time it was rated at 55hp at 3800rpm. Ads for Westerbeke engines implied that their engines were better because they made their power at only 3000rpm. After a few years while browsing in a brochure I saw the same 55hp Yanmar engine was listed as making 55hp at 3000rpm. It appeared Yanmar built the best engine they could but customers were clearly buying into Westerbeke's line about high rpm and suddenly their engine was a 3000rpm engine. The only thing that I could see was the fact that Yanmar listed the engine now at 3000rpm instead of 3800rpm. The only way I can see this happening is for Yanmar to have rated the engine at an engine speed (rpm) above the rpm where it made it's maximum power. So it made 55hp at two engine speeds. It may have happened that it also made 55hp at 3000rpm so they just changed the numbers on the specs. Not very likely but how else could this have come about?

Anybody know what really happened.?
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Old 01-12-2013, 01:14 AM   #82
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I remember when I was shopping for a re-power engine one of the runner ups was the Yanmar JH 55hp 4 cyl. At that time it was rated at 55hp at 3800rpm. Ads for Westerbeke engines implied that their engines were better because they made their power at only 3000rpm. After a few years while browsing in a brochure I saw the same 55hp Yanmar engine was listed as making 55hp at 3000rpm. It appeared Yanmar built the best engine they could but customers were clearly buying into Westerbeke's line about high rpm and suddenly their engine was a 3000rpm engine. The only thing that I could see was the fact that Yanmar listed the engine now at 3000rpm instead of 3800rpm. The only way I can see this happening is for Yanmar to have rated the engine at an engine speed (rpm) above the rpm where it made it's maximum power. So it made 55hp at two engine speeds. It may have happened that it also made 55hp at 3000rpm so they just changed the numbers on the specs. Not very likely but how else could this have come about?

Anybody know what really happened.?
Eric,

I have the Yanmar 4JH3E in my boat which is rated at 56HP @ 3,800RPM. It is a 2.0L engine with an 84mm bore and 90mm stroke. The power curve increases pretty uniformly all the way to the maximum engine speed. The newer 4JH4E and 4JH5E diesels are rated at 55HP @ 3,000RPM. They are both slightly larger engines of 2.2L displacement with an 88mm bore and 90mm stroke. All of the power, torque and fuel consumption curves are similar in shape, but occur at lower engine speeds in the newer engines.

To summarize, the newer engines are 10% larger and operate at 20% lower engine speeds. I'm sure the fuel delivery, camshafts etc. are optimized for those lower engine speeds. Interestingly, the specific fuel consumption is very similar across all of the model years.

I am told the newer engines are 'quieter.' Hmmm, as if you could call any Yanmar direct injection diesel 'quiet', but as you know, they are reliable and you can get parts anywhere.

What engine did you choose for your boat?

Larry
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Old 01-12-2013, 11:09 AM   #83
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So the part number I would have if I have it is for the 1" pump. But this is a really common conversion for FL120s so I would think any diesel shop on the planet that has experience with these engines would know the pump and the part number. Or you could call the Smiths at American Diesel.

If we're at the boat this weekend I'll try to remember to take a picture of the installation.
Please do, I am interested in doing this upgrade. Thanks!
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Old 01-12-2013, 11:11 AM   #84
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Several have asked if the OP was still here and yes I am... and learning a lot from many of the posts. The discussion has been very helpful and most of it was exactly what I was hoping for. The discussion between the "old slow" diesels vs the "new high rev" diesels is very interesting to me. I'm a mechanical engineer and that was the first thing that jumped out at me as I started looking at used trawlers. I've asked many of my boating friends about the pros and cons of each but most of them are not technically savy so I was hoping to get some insight into that subject in this thread. Philosophically I am leaning towards the lower reving engines with less "stuff" but i'd like to continue to listen to the experiences many of you have had with each of them. Thank you all so much for the info and i'm happy to continue to listening!
Having the engine knowledge is very valuable for sure. But with that said you need to pick a boat that will suit your needs over a particular engine. What I mean is as you look around and settle on a particular boat you will find it only came with one or two different engine options unless it has been re powered. If boat X has only two options and you don't like either then you will be forced to go to boat Y.

But something to think about is in the end you buy boat Y, because you love the engine but boat X was more the type of boat that suited your needs. Boat Y will sit at the dock because you don't really like the boat. The actual boat is going to make the decision for you not the engine.

Example. You lust after a 43 Nordhavn. Love the boat, it is everything you want in a boat. Your engine choice is going to be? Lugger, Lugger or Lugger. Selene is your choice. Then it will be Cummins, Cummins or Cummins.

I really wanted the boat I have with the Cummins option. There were less than 10% (my guess) of the Mainship 34t's with that engine. In the end we ended up with the 6STP 370 Yanmar. The boat starts every time. It runs flawless every time I use it and we use the boat just as much as we would of if it had the Cummins. The only two (I looked at over 20 boats of this model) that were available at the time I bought my boat, with Cummins power, were both asking $20k more as a starting price. I didn't have that luxury nor did I see the value. I'm not sorry after over two years.

Just something to consider.
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Old 01-12-2013, 11:30 AM   #85
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Larry M,
Finally settled on a Mitsubishi S4L2 marinized by Klassen.
http://klassenengine.com/PDF/MITSUBI...hure%20(2).pdf

The big 2 reasons I chose that engine was for the steel exhaust manifold and what I determined to be the best power loading for the boat (amount of hp re the boat). I still have a bit more power than I need but at the time I was afraid of getting too little. And that would be at least 10 times as bad as too much.
Seems to me it was only $6K too and I got all the features I wanted like a remote heat exchanger and a belt driven sea water pump. As a result I have no sea water on/in my engine and the SW pump is a snap to service. I can get impellers at a NAPA store in Alaska. Klassen is a Canadian company that sells almost all of their products to comercial users. Mostly the fishing fleet in Alaska. Their brand leader is Isuzu. The Mitsu S4L2 engine itself is a well known performer. 78 X 92mm. Pre-chambers and glow plug heaters. I've got a slightly modified BWVD w a 2.57-1 ratio. 18" x 14" Michigan MP prop.

Thank's for filling in the missing links on the JH. I was drawn to that engine but I felt it was too much power and didn't have the features and flexibility I got w the Klassen. There are at least one and perhaps 2 or 3 that have the JH in Willards in the Willard Group on Yahoo. Surely you are there. If not you should get there as the information on these boats is very extensive.

You have Doug's old boat I take it? We are boatmates of some sort here in a sea of monster trawlers. Now that we are "down south" in Washington State and the moorage is so high my interest in a bigger boat has 99% dried up.
Take care and contact me for anything you may want to talk about.
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Old 01-12-2013, 04:14 PM   #86
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Could be. I know from our brief experience with the chartered single engine GB36 (which had no generator, either) that getting around in the engine room to check things out was WAY easier than it is in our boat. Having only one engine also made more space for things like a proper diesel heating system, a good sized hot water heater, sufficient battery banks, and so on with still plenty of space left for crawling around.

Add in the weight benefit and the other factors you mentioned in your post, and I think single engine boats have a legitimate appeal even to people who could afford otherwise.

To turn this back into something the OP might be more interested in if he's still around is what would be the smarter buy in a used boat? One with "old generation" diesels like Lehmans, Perkins, older Cats, Deeres, Cummins, etc., or something fitted with one of the newer, lightweight, more efficient, high tech, higher speed diesels?

Which will give him the most value for the money? And not just purchase money but money spent over the time he owns the boat.
Good point. I am still shopping as well as you know. I made an 800 mile trip yesterday to look at a california built boat and it was built like a tank, glass decks, aluminum mast and tanks windows with out teak trim and no mildew or water damage anywhere. I plan to pay cash but yesterday i learned banks don't make loans on boats older then 1983 at present. I found this out because someone tried to buy this boat last week but couldnt get a loan cause its a 79.
Maybe i will start a thread as you suggested?
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Old 01-12-2013, 06:49 PM   #87
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I made an 800 mile trip yesterday to look at a california built boat and it was built like a tank, glass decks, aluminum mast and tanks windows with out teak trim and no mildew or water damage anywhere. I plan to pay cash but yesterday i learned banks don't make loans on boats older then 1983 at present. I found this out because someone tried to buy this boat last week but couldnt get a loan cause its a 79.
Congratulations. More info on the boat please.
I`m sure you thought of this already, but if the boat can only go to a cash buyer (assuming buyers don`t use collateral other than the boat) that makes you the exact buyer they need, and gives you quite some power.
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Old 01-13-2013, 03:56 PM   #88
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I've heard lots of good info on this thread regarding Perkins, Lehman, Cummins, Yanmar, etc. but I've not read anything on Lugger. Does anyone have any experiences to share regarding the Lugger engines?
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Old 01-13-2013, 05:15 PM   #89
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Does anyone have any experiences to share regarding the Lugger engines?
Most Luggers are in the larger boats (ie: Offshore, Alaskans, etc.) Those that I know who have them wouldn't have anything else.

I suggest you Google Lugger Marine Engines.
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