Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 12-10-2012, 11:16 AM   #81
Guru
 
SomeSailor's Avatar
 
City: Everett, WA
Vessel Name: Honey Badger
Vessel Model: 42' CHB Europa
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 784
I think the idea of towing / pushing your trawler to safety is the best idea for a dinghy. It may not get you home, but it would get you to safe anchorage in most cases. Even a small dinghy can push a big boat around in some limited fashion.
__________________
Advertisement

SomeSailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2012, 01:51 PM   #82
Scraping Paint
 
City: -
Country: -
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,748
Quote:
Originally Posted by HopCar View Post
Marin, your story of the current being so strong that the boat couldn't be kept off the rocks with 50 hp is scary but I think very few of us ever see currents like that. In less chalenging conditions the 50 hp outboard would have been very effective.
I agree. As I said some posts back, what you choose for a get-home engine will depend not only on the size/weight/windage of your boat but also the conditions under which you boat.

In this area (PNW) the tidal range can be quite large with the resulting strong currents. This is true even in a large body of water, like out in the middle of the Strait of Georgia. So the conditions I described in the story of our friend are not all that uncommon up here. And don't forget, his experience occured just after slack current. So the current was just beginning to build. At maximum current in this particular pass the water is moving at some 7 knots. There are other passes here and up the coast where the maximum current is much higher.

Another friend lost the water pump on the engine in his Newport 30 sloop when he was transiting one of the larger channels in the Gulf Islands. And while help arrived fairly quickly he and his wife were within minutes of being carried into the rocks by the current and wind when the Canadian Coast Guard arrived and towed them to safety.

I have posted these two shots before. I took them a few years ago when we were on a buoy at the small island in the San Juans where we have property. It gives a pretty good idea of the typical tidal ranges in this area--- this was not an exceptional high or low tide at all--- and keep in mind that the range gets greater the farther north you go.

So a get-home engine has to be able to cope with the conditions you will face, and there is no one-size-fits-all solution (other than having a twin-engine boat).
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	High Tide Center.jpg
Views:	59
Size:	101.0 KB
ID:	14639   Click image for larger version

Name:	Low Tide Center.jpg
Views:	61
Size:	148.2 KB
ID:	14640  
__________________

Marin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2012, 02:47 PM   #83
Guru
 
Northern Spy's Avatar
 
City: Powell River, BC
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Northern Spy
Vessel Model: Nordic Tug 26
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,667
Quote:
Originally Posted by manyboats View Post
What I'd like to see is an OB mount that keeps the OB vertical and allows it to rise or be lowered a substantial amount at the stern. Willy, w a clear stern would be ideal for this mount but I have no idea where to find one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northern Spy View Post
Breeze used to make one. Very popular on Catalina 27s around here. It has a motor mount that slides vertically on two parallel SS rods. Next time I'm at the boat I'll snap a picture.
Here you go... Don't think either one of them are Breeze though.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	CameraZOOM-20121210104802771 (1).jpg
Views:	93
Size:	40.0 KB
ID:	14641   Click image for larger version

Name:	CameraZOOM-20121210104827013.jpg
Views:	88
Size:	38.3 KB
ID:	14642  
Northern Spy is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2012, 02:55 PM   #84
Guru
 
Northern Spy's Avatar
 
City: Powell River, BC
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Northern Spy
Vessel Model: Nordic Tug 26
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,667
Quote:
Originally Posted by manyboats View Post

I've seen these mounts in the past. Perhaps I should spend some time on e-bay. e-bay isn't what it used to be re boating stuff.
Try Used Victoria they have some real interesting tid-bits that come up now and then. There was a Tohatsu or Yanmar diesel outboard on there not too long ago.


Yup. Still there. Yanmar diesel outboard
Northern Spy is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2012, 02:09 PM   #85
Guru
 
City: North Charleston, SC
Country: USA
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 4,390
Quote:
Originally Posted by HopCar View Post
This has really gotten silly. It's obvious that a small outboard can be an effective get home engine. .
Silly? Perhaps, but the reason people continue to post is that it's not "obvious that a small outboard can be an effective get home engine."

If it's obvious to you, fine. It's not obvious to everyone and rightly so.
rwidman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2012, 02:17 PM   #86
Guru
 
MurrayM's Avatar
 
City: Kitimat, North Coast BC
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Badger
Vessel Model: 30' Sundowner Tug
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,322
Quote:
Originally Posted by rwidman View Post
Silly? Perhaps, but the reason people continue to post is that it's not "obvious that a small outboard can be an effective get home engine."

If it's obvious to you, fine. It's not obvious to everyone and rightly so.
From my 30' 15,000 lb-ish frame of reference it seems quite plausible.

The previous owner of our boat, happily and without consequence, made several trips to Catalina Island from BC's north coast. As I don't have that level of confidence yet a kicker seems a good idea, especially since we plan to explore less traveled areas. I'm getting a bigger anchor too
__________________
"The most interesting path between two points is not a straight line" Murray Minchin
MurrayM is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2012, 03:34 PM   #87
Guru
 
HopCar's Avatar


 
City: Miami Florida
Vessel Name: Possum
Vessel Model: Ellis 28
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,505
Ron, I'm disapointed it's not obvious to you as well. I thought you were smarter than that.

It's just a matter of matching the size of the motor to the boat and conditions.

This argument reminds me of the discussions on size and number of bilge pumps a boat should have. Not matter how much pumping capacity a boat has someone will point out that an x sized hole will let in more water than the pumps can remove. That doesn't mean you shouldn't have bilge pumps.

A lot of people seemed to be making the argument that because an outboard wouldn't move a particular boat at X speed Y distance in Z mph winds they weren't worth considering as an auxillary engine.

Am I the only one who has actually used an outboard as a come home motor on this forum?

In high school I had a small single engine displacement hull boat. One day I was towing in a string of 5 or 6 opties after a race when my propeller shaft broke. My Dad didn't trust the engine and he had put a little 3 hp Johnson on the back. I started the outboard and completed the tow job. I was glad to have that outboard.
HopCar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2012, 03:53 PM   #88
Guru
 
Nomad Willy's Avatar
 
City: Concrete Washington State
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Willy
Vessel Model: Willard Nomad 30'
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,712
Well Hoppy,
You jumped right in on that one. Since I wanted to see who would so I kept quiet despite my normal tendencies.

Should be a balance of how much good how often v/s how much cost and trouble and under what conditions.

A 25hp GH on Willy is almost the same cost (all things considered) as a 5hp GH. I may have more range w a 10hp and that should get me at least 4 knots. I almost never buck that much current and I should be able to start it up in almost any weather and seas so a good solution for me. But for a 49' DeFever the capabilities would be much less of course but still be able to shove the boat in a desirable and safe direction. So it seems obvious the OB should be of some value as a GH. And there is the fact that there are outboards w plenty of power to push a 49' DeFever at a usable speed.

Hop what's an optie?

Murray,
I'm sure you'd do well w an OB GH. I'll bet you could make 3+ knots w a 9.8.
__________________
Eric

North Western Washington State USA
Nomad Willy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2012, 04:00 PM   #89
Scraping Paint
 
City: -
Country: -
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,748
Quote:
Originally Posted by HopCar View Post
A lot of people seemed to be making the argument that because an outboard wouldn't move a particular boat at X speed Y distance in Z mph winds they weren't worth considering as an auxillary engine.
Not sure anyone's going that far. Only that the outboard needs to be sized to the boat and the boating conditions that could be encountered, using the worst-case scenario as a guide. What is needed up here may not be needed in the Chesapeake, for example.

But if an outboard of suitable power can be mounted in such a way as to be usable on the back of a cruiser, there is no reason I can think of that it would not make a practical get-home motor. But as a cruiser gets larger and heavier, the power requirements go up, particularly if the conditions under which a get-home motor might be used are challenging. At some point, the size and weight of the necessary outboard may become impractical to mount on the boat.
Marin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2012, 04:24 PM   #90
Guru
 
City: North Charleston, SC
Country: USA
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 4,390
Quote:
Originally Posted by HopCar View Post
Ron, I'm disapointed it's not obvious to you as well. I thought you were smarter than that............. .
If you had been able to phrase ypur reply without the insult, I would be more inclined to read and possibly respond to it.

Yes, you could probably hang a 40HP outboard on the back of a trawler and use it as a "get home engine", but most outboards don't have a long enough shaft to put the prop where it needs to be without submerging the engine. And of course there's dealing with a supply of fuel for the outboard unless you find a diesel outboard. And you need to run it every week or two or it's not likely to start when you need it. It's going to be mighty hard to steer as well.

When you get yours set up and running, how about posting a video so we can all see how well it works?
rwidman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2012, 04:49 PM   #91
Guru
 
MurrayM's Avatar
 
City: Kitimat, North Coast BC
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Badger
Vessel Model: 30' Sundowner Tug
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,322
I'm leaning towards the new Lehr propane 9.9 that's coming out soon, for the very reasons Ron points out...easy start up even after long periods without use, and no winterizing. It's not high thrust though...

Also, this wouldn't be for "worst case scenarios". If that was the guideline to follow we'd all have full time Coast Guard vessel and helicopter escorts every time we left the dock. You can engineer things to be 100% absolutely safe, but it wouldn't be very practical, or affordable.

All I'm looking for is enough power to maneuver out of harms way, and then wait for favourable conditions to carry on. There were times while sea kayaking in the winter that we would have to wait 5 days before continuing, because we couldn't safely make progress due to adverse conditions. Similarly, with a kicker, you would proceed only if safe to do so. That would mean; after finding a safe place to wait out bad weather only proceeding when wind and/or wave and/or current allowed.
__________________
"The most interesting path between two points is not a straight line" Murray Minchin
MurrayM is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2012, 05:27 PM   #92
Guru
 
Nomad Willy's Avatar
 
City: Concrete Washington State
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Willy
Vessel Model: Willard Nomad 30'
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,712
Murray,
Let's see an expandable thumnail so we can see your avatar bigger. Looks promising.
__________________
Eric

North Western Washington State USA
Nomad Willy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2012, 05:38 PM   #93
Guru
 
MurrayM's Avatar
 
City: Kitimat, North Coast BC
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Badger
Vessel Model: 30' Sundowner Tug
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,322
Quote:
Originally Posted by manyboats View Post
Murray,
Let's see an expandable thumnail so we can see your avatar bigger. Looks promising.
You bet. Comes out fuzzy-wuzzy on a computer screen, but the print is from a 4x5 negative so it's oozing subtle tack-sharp detail
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Fan Point.jpg
Views:	93
Size:	162.7 KB
ID:	14661  
__________________
"The most interesting path between two points is not a straight line" Murray Minchin
MurrayM is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2012, 05:59 PM   #94
Guru
 
Nomad Willy's Avatar
 
City: Concrete Washington State
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Willy
Vessel Model: Willard Nomad 30'
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,712
Thank's much Murray. Looks like petrified wood. We anchored in Billy Bay on the way south. Is that near there? Probably not.
__________________
Eric

North Western Washington State USA
Nomad Willy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2012, 06:20 PM   #95
Guru
 
HopCar's Avatar


 
City: Miami Florida
Vessel Name: Possum
Vessel Model: Ellis 28
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,505
"If it's obvious to you, fine. It's not obvious to everyone and rightly so."
Sorry Ron, your statement sounded pretty condescending to me and I replied in kind.

Manyboats, Opti is short for Optimus Pram. They are 8 foot training boats for kids. I've been hanging out with too many sailors! I'm picking up their lingo.

I'm not advocating that people run out and buy outboards to use as get home engines, but if you have one onboard why not give some thought as to how you could use it? Remember you wouldn't have to steer it. Presumably your rudder still works. If you have an outboard on the boat, chances are you have a dinghy. No need for a mount on the big boat. Tow it with the dinghy. I'm just saying don't dismiss something just because it won't work in the worst case scenario. I don't usually have an outboard on my boat so my get home motor hangs on the back of the Tow Boat US RIB.

I'm planning to buy a Lehr 9.9 as soon as they are available. I'll see if it will move little Possum. I have pushed Possum around with a 2hp engine but I wouldn't want to try to go very far that way.
HopCar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2012, 06:24 PM   #96
Guru
 
MurrayM's Avatar
 
City: Kitimat, North Coast BC
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Badger
Vessel Model: 30' Sundowner Tug
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,322
Quote:
Originally Posted by manyboats View Post
Thank's much Murray. Looks like petrified wood. We anchored in Billy Bay on the way south. Is that near there? Probably not.
I'm not familiar with Billy Bay, but Fan Point is a bit north of Cape George, on the Hecate Strait side of Porcher Island.
__________________
"The most interesting path between two points is not a straight line" Murray Minchin
MurrayM is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2012, 06:47 PM   #97
Guru
 
City: North Charleston, SC
Country: USA
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 4,390
Quote:
Originally Posted by HopCar;118998..............[COLOR=black
Remember you wouldn't have to steer it. Presumably your rudder still works. .[/COLOR].
The rudder may still go from side to side but without the prop wash against it, it does very little at low speed. Think about how your rudder works in reverse.

I think you'll do as well or better trying to tow the boat with the dinghy, but not in rough seas. Mounted on the boat, it won't do well in rough seas either.
rwidman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2012, 07:05 PM   #98
Guru
 
MurrayM's Avatar
 
City: Kitimat, North Coast BC
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Badger
Vessel Model: 30' Sundowner Tug
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,322
Quote:
Originally Posted by rwidman View Post
Mounted on the boat, it won't do well in rough seas either.
1) Better than nothing.
2) Better than waiting hours for help, if available.
3) Makes finding a safer location possible.
4) Leave safe location only when safe to do so.
5) Appropriate for small-ish trawlers.
6) To each their own
__________________
"The most interesting path between two points is not a straight line" Murray Minchin
MurrayM is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2012, 07:08 PM   #99
Guru
 
Steve's Avatar
 
City: Thibodaux, Louisiana
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Gumbo
Vessel Model: 2003 Monk 36
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,607
I have seen a Nimble trawler don't know what version with an O/B aux engine mounted on the transom on a hinge down mount.
I saw this cruiser with a 225 hp O/B on the swim platform near Ft Myers a couple of years ago. I got the feeling they were out for sea trials after refitting an O/B on what was an inboard, but I'm not sure if that was the case. 225 HP on a swim platform doesn't sound good to me, maybe they reinforced it.
Steve W
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Sanibel to  Ft.Myers 002.jpg
Views:	94
Size:	131.9 KB
ID:	14663  
Steve is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2012, 07:17 PM   #100
Guru
 
HopCar's Avatar


 
City: Miami Florida
Vessel Name: Possum
Vessel Model: Ellis 28
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,505
It's actually surprising how much of a dunking an outboard can take and still run.
There are a lot of big outboard center console boats around here. They are often used for sail and marlin fishing which requires hard backing. Those engines are often under a lot of water and keep running. It surprises me every time I see it.
__________________

HopCar is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:09 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012