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Old 12-08-2012, 11:41 PM   #41
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"But you will have to carry a pretty big propane tank if it is to be a get home engine."
The 9.9 Lehr should run about 4-5 hours on a twenty pound propane tank at WOT.
Fuel is of course an issue with using a gasoline outboard as a get home engine as well.
"Why not just use your generators power to run an AC electric v belted to your prop shaft?"
I think that's a great idea if your boat is big enough to have a substantial generator. My poor little boat doesn't have a generator so that's not an option for me.
Has anybody done the math on this? How big an electric motor would you need to turn a prop fast enough to move a boat along at three or four knots?
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Old 12-09-2012, 12:09 AM   #42
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Marin says;
"When something bad happens it usually happens at the worst possible time."
The chances go up I'll admit but the bad conditions aren't rare but they are a small part of the picture. I'll make an optimist out of you yet.

Hop,
Yes I think several have done it w Willards. See the archives at WBO Yahoo Groups.
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Old 12-09-2012, 01:20 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HopCar View Post
The 9.9 Lehr should run about 4-5 hours on a twenty pound propane tank at WOT.
This quote is from a Cruising World review of Lehr's 9.9;

"The four-stroke engine burns approximately a gallon of propane per hour wide open (4,600 rpm) or about .44 gallons per hour at 3,000 rpm. Using a typical 20-pound tank of gas, similar to what you have on your barbecue, the engine will run for about 5 hours. Slow it down to cruising speed and you can motor for about 14 hours on the same tank."

http://www.cruisingworld.com/gear/ha...ard-introduced
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Old 12-09-2012, 04:57 AM   #44
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Many sail boats use special "high thrust" outboards.

These are usually geared to churn a bigger propeller , and the pitch is proper for low , not water ski speeds.

Ay your local dealer.

With a different high pitch prop it might be possible to operate a condom dink at normal speeds .

Now if only it could be fitted with a 12V 200A alternator!
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Old 12-09-2012, 06:27 AM   #45
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Gentlemen,
The question is: "Do you have a get a home outboard and what were the experience-pro or con.

Yes, I have a outboard motor on board for the purpose of using on the dink or if need be, on the 27foot Marben. I speak from experience. On our last boat, a 28 foot wood converted harbor tug weighing 19000 # we used a 9.9 Hi thrust Yamaha. With our diesel (68 hp Hercules) we ran a modest 7 knot average. When the need, which in deed happen twice in our 14 years of ownership, the 9.9 pushed the boat at 4 knots at approx; 3/4 throttle. (The first was a bent rudder jammed by hitting a pinnacle rock, the second was line rap on the wheel.) The rudder stunt had us trolling back to Ketchikan for some 4 hours and the 6 gallon tank of gas was sufficient with some reserve. Maybe a gallon and half. This 6 gallon tank is located on the swim step so as to not present a danger. The second effort with the line was a short voyage to shallow water where skinny dipping took over.
On our present boat 10000#, we are prepared with a outboard bracket mounted on the swim step (as was the 9.9 on the tug) and have a 6 hp Evenrude mounted on a rail bracket. The question of danger in placing the ob on the swim step bracket is worth commenting. Prior to the 9.9 on the tugboat, we did have this same 6 hp Evenrude. For the heck of it, during a fair wind up and a good chop, with a male friend and our wives standing by we made a test run to see how complicated the operation would be. I tied myself off with a line, wore a life vest, and surprisingly able to man handle the ob on to the bracket, secure, and start the engine.
Given an event that there was some concern towards the main engine experiencing abnormal conditions and weather fair, I would not hesitate to place the ob on the brackent as a precurser to continuing.

I agree with Eric, if given the opportunity, in his case to design a Willard for engine safety or say, obtain a twin screw gas engine boat that offered the comforts of accommodation but not fuel affordability, I to would choose to re-power with two small diesels. But to answer the question posed. Yes, an ob gitahome particularly in Southeast Alaska where USA Boat or what ever, recovery is not available. Heck, on my last trip to and from Wrangell Alaska to Ketchikan a distance of 88 ktm I saw in the distance, two commercial boats, and a little secret, there are a whole lot of boats out there who have abandoned the VHF in favor of cell phones, so contact is questionable. For me the comfort of an ob is well worth consideration, well maintained engine or not.

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Old 12-09-2012, 07:46 AM   #46
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This is called trawler forum, not small boat, sail boat or dinghy forum. This being the case , I see no way a small outboard with an 18 or 24" shaft could hang on the back of a 30K to 100K pound trawler and be effective. Keith and Marin pretty well sum it up, but I would add a few things. On my vessel it would get pooped in a modest following sea, drown out and die. Further, the prop would not be in the slip stream. Last but not least I have no desire to add a gasoline tank large enough to power a 30 to 40 HP outboard for a day or so.

Unless you choose to stay in the confines of SF Bay like Mark or rely upon vessel assist services, just bite the bullet and have a twin engined vessel. Most of us do.
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Old 12-09-2012, 09:16 AM   #47
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We have "get home" - a 56HP Yanmar Saildrive- that we have never needed to use for that purpose, but the idea of using an outboard is a good one subject to 2 important considerations. First does it really deliver enough power to drive/steer to the boat. Second, but very important, how much gasoline do you have on board?? Outboards are not very efficient. Our RIB's 40HP Honda (big enough to handle the larger 47ft boat) drinks about 2.5 gph at any decent speed/power output. So you need 10 gallons aboard for about 10-12 nautical miles travel when pushing the big boat at about 3kts.
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Old 12-09-2012, 11:12 AM   #48
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Tom,
You're beginning to sound like Marin who would conceive of a GHOB as a big thing that would provide enough speed that a trip to AK could be done just w the GHOB (get home outboard). Ridiculous. The GHOB only needs to get one out of serious trouble. Like around a point in the lee of storm seas You wrote "I see no way a small outboard with an 18 or 24" shaft could hang on the back of a 30K to 100K pound trawler and be effective." The operative word there is "effective". Perhaps it wouldn't get you back to the yacht club at home but even a 4hp OB may save your life or boat. Even w a small OB that couldn't buck much current at all one could go even fairly well WITH the current and slowly cross a channel or inlet to the safety of a small anchorage or to a good bottom for anchoring. The anchor is not to be forgotten as a safety device.

Al,
Do you really think people are abandoning their VHF for cells? I have no knowledge of that and to imagine fishermen doing that is a real stretch. A lot of the sports fishermen in aluminum skiffs at Thorne bay have hand held VHF. And even in the summer most boats on the way to Wrangell would be commercial. Even in the back channel. I disagree but I really don't know. People have then to be sure (and that's good) but turning off their VHF? Down here in Puget Sound I like having both.
I feel guilty disagreeing w you when you agreed w me. And it's nice when a person agrees w you but ever so much nicer when they say so on the board for others to see. Thanks Al.
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Old 12-09-2012, 11:23 AM   #49
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Thanks Al, that was just what I was looking for; real world experience as opposed to chaise lounge with umbrella drink in hand conjecture

A couple questions if you don't mind...

Did you happen to use it in a following sea? Does the prop come out of the water, or the outboard get swamped?

It's a different world in Alaska or on BC's north coast, especially if you wander away from the Inside Passage as we intend to do. Close to Kitimat where we live, there are channels where there's nothing but rock walls with no chance of anchoring for over ten miles in both directions, and help could be many hours away.

So, given the choice, would you rather cheese grater your boat along the rock walls until help arrived, or would you rather arrange to meet up in the nearest safe anchorage?
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Old 12-09-2012, 11:25 AM   #50
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The GHOB only needs to get one out of serious trouble. Like around a point in the lee of storm seas You wrote "I see no way a small outboard with an 18 or 24" shaft could hang on the back of a 30K to 100K pound trawler and be effective." The operative word there is "effective". Perhaps it wouldn't get you back to the yacht club at home but even a 4hp OB may save your life or boat.
Now that's what I'm talking about!
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Old 12-09-2012, 12:03 PM   #51
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How about a diesel outboard? You wouldn't have to carry gasoline and you can get it with pretty long shafts.

Diesel Outboards | Klaxon Diesel Outboards
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Old 12-09-2012, 01:11 PM   #52
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http://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s...home-8067.html

The single vs Twin debate has been given its own thread so this one can continue looking at 'Get Home' Outboards.
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Old 12-09-2012, 04:41 PM   #53
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Someone needs to tweak these to run on diesel.

The first outboard engine ever available to the general public that's capable of running on multiple fuel types, including kerosene, JP-4, JP-5, JP-8, Jet A and Jet B as well as standard gasoline.

Multi-Fuel Engines Any Time. Any Place. Any Fuel. Engines | Evinrude Canada
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Old 12-09-2012, 05:18 PM   #54
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Murry and Eric,

In all of my years of boating, all of them, some 70 years, yes at 5 years old I had a 6 foot punt that my dad would take me out. So I believe that I can speak to the subject of having a OB as a emergency method of removing yourself and boat out of a situation.
As Eric and many know, a small OB is often used as a fishing motor to reserve the use of the main engine which may be a fuel issue or too large to slow the boat down to trolling speed. I add that the application is seen often on those 35-40 foot single engine boats, not common, but you know what? I bet if you spoke to them you would find that what ever the size, the secondary thought will be the use as an emergency git-a-home.
As such, the OB becomes a git a home motor. There is no special reason to address it as that, it just is because it rides with you all the while. It is a part of the enviroment.

So- I have never been 'Pooped" under main engine power, nor when I am fishing at slow speed using the OB. You should have the correct shaft length at time of purchase. Now let me be clear. There is many cases of boats being 'pooped' and I can tell you why. The boat has a large OB main engine with a small kicker for trolling. The stern height is usually the fault as the heavy large OB keeps the low stern down in the water.The small kicker is being used as the trolling motor and with the added weight of the people on board standing or sitting aft,during following seas, are unaware of the 'Pooping happening. Under git a home conditions the kicker on a size boat like this depicted, will be turning at a high enough speed to move the boat with the following sea sufficiently to contend with following seas, Now if the following seas are surfboard quality, then of course all stern seas present conditions that will risk any boat.

The four knot speed is the speed we pushed the boat when ever we used the 9.9 as a fishing motor and moving from one point or short move to another potential fishing area. So as to flood or ebe with the motor in our case is mute as we could travel at full throttle if the tide ran against us.
I would agree that moving at what ever speed to a safe anchorage is Paramount when you are experiencing a stressful issue, particularly if you have the wife and family on board. When you experience a serious mechanical issue it usually includes ugly weather. I can guarantee you that your pucker factor goes up quickly as you contemplate action to secure the boat and family.
As the discussion regarding single /twin engine has been moved, It is anticipated that what and why of having the OB as it relates to being a git a home will not open the usual "Buy a twin screw boat".
While it is easy to say "If you can't afford them, then don't be in boating". I have heard that often enough. Let me inform all the posters, I am not able to afford twin screw, I can not afford a large 40 foot trawler. A git a home OB is the solution for me and it has been for low, these many years on the water.
Eric, as to the use of cell phone vs: VHF. I have many commercial fishing acquaintances. In discussions with several, particularly those who I have attempted to contact via VHF as we pass, I find that they have turned the VHF down and use their individual cell phones. The practical reason is they are able to converse in private regarding passing fishing information to each other without having the whole fishing fleet listen in on the "Scoop". When I speak to Tug operators, it often is the mode of communicating with the office. I have no idea what makes them shift to VHF when they are out of cell tower range.

When the question of diesel or propane OB develops, the immediate thought is 'sure, and as dealers are right up there with "Dodo" birds, you can anticipate zip on service, not to speak to purchase price. Emagin being off in the boonies with a diesel/propane OB and seeking help from traditional OB dealers. Just seems to beg the question of even adding such to your boat for emergency need. Pick an OB that you know dealer support will be available. Not trying to be argumentative, just realistic

The storage of OB gas is open to debate, however, with the OB fuel tanks constructed as todays tanks are, it is a stretch to say that it is an overriding deciding factor on installing an OB for the purposes stated. The installation is a common as cat hair here and the issue of stowage for the tank pretty much takes care itself. The more important issue is securing the tank so it doesn't walk off with thieves, a subject for another thread.

I have gone long here and for that I apologize.

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Old 12-09-2012, 05:42 PM   #55
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Jeffnick- Out of curiosity, I looked up the price of the 55 hp mult-fuel Evenrude- $8,000.00 Price of a 4 stroke 50 hp Honda-$6,000.00.

Again, till the market shows acceptance of this concept I'd recommend that a current favorite OB be the choice. As to this being a git a home OB, I rather think it is larger than required, it is more a main power unit for a OB intended cruiser.
Just saying,

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Old 12-09-2012, 07:24 PM   #56
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The GHOB only needs to get one out of serious trouble. Like around a point in the lee of storm seas.
You have defined the exact conditions under which a small outboard on the back of a big boat is going to be almost totally worthless. I related an incident in which a 40 or 50 hp OB was unable to prevent a 42 or 44 foot cruiser from being carried into the rocks and that was in smooth water with no wind. And you think a weenie little 9 hp OB is going to do what a 40 or 50 hp OB couldn't do, and in rough water and strong winds to boot?

Dream on.

As Tom said, this isn't Small Boat Forum. The boats most of us have range from 30,000 to over 100,000 pounds with a fair amount of windage. What works for a fellow with a Grady White sportfish boat or a little Marben cruiser is of no relevance to me or Tom or anyone with similar or larger, heavier boats. I daresay Carl (Delfin) would not have a whole lot of success trying to get his boat to safety in the midst of stormy weather with a 9.9 hp outboard mounted on his stern.
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Old 12-09-2012, 07:48 PM   #57
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You have defined the exact conditions under which a small outboard on the back of a big boat is going to be almost totally worthless. I related an incident in which a 40 or 50 hp OB was unable to prevent a 42 or 44 foot cruiser from being carried into the rocks and that was in smooth water with no wind. And you think a weenie little 9 hp OB is going to do what a 40 or 50 hp OB couldn't do, and in rough water and strong winds to boot?

Dream on.

As Tom said, this isn't Small Boat Forum. The boats most of us have range from 30,000 to over 100,000 pounds with a fair amount of windage. What works for a fellow with a Grady White sportfish boat or a little Marben cruiser is of no relevance to me or Tom or anyone with similar or larger, heavier boats. I daresay Carl (Delfin) would not have a whole lot of success trying to get his boat to safety in the midst of stormy weather with a 9.9 hp outboard mounted on his stern.
And Tom is right. you can speculate all you wish but i made my living doing research that had to stand up to the scrutiny of the scientific community and hold up in court.
Marin. If you have ever been involved in scientific research you would know that first you do is start simple, next you eliminate as many variables as possible in order test to test your hypothesis in its simplest form in order to save money before setting up a full blown project.

At this point my comments were based upon my experimentation with small outboards on vessels under 12000 lb. My experimentation and my experience with this new HT 9.9 makes me wonder if it wouldn't function as a get home engine on a trawler. Keep in mind DeFever designs use a 10 hp motor as a come home engine and the claim is 5kts in a 29,000lb vessel!
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Old 12-09-2012, 07:55 PM   #58
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Greetings,
Yup Mr. 45. Science...Plot your line...THEN enter your data points.
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Old 12-09-2012, 08:11 PM   #59
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Greetings,
up Mr. 45. Science...Plot your line...THEN enter your data points.
..u got it baby
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Old 12-09-2012, 09:15 PM   #60
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bffloyd45 said:
." Keep in mind DeFever designs use a 10 hp motor as a come home engine and the claim is 5kts in a 29,000lb vessel!"

This is utter nonsense. - how about some DF examples in real waves.
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