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Old 12-08-2012, 06:13 PM   #21
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If a 10 HP outboard would move my boat against the current and wind, why did they make it with a 200 HP diesel engine?

I have my doubts about a reasonable sized outboard providing satisfatory performance. And of course, it would require carrying supply of fresh gasoline onboard.
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Old 12-08-2012, 06:29 PM   #22
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Eric-- It sounds like something that a competent machine shop should be able to make for you without too much effort. Don't know what the cost would be, though.
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Old 12-08-2012, 07:19 PM   #23
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I do not but after our engine failure and near engine failure I've done considerable thinking along those lines....
Part of the problem w OBs is that they may not run when ther'e needed. One could run them for 5 minute's every time the boat went out but who would?
Sure that`s a good reason not to and not "glass half empty" thinking? I use my inflatable and its 5hp Tohatsu 2-3 times a year (other times we use a F/G dinghy), the motor always starts,needs a few pulls first time, probably getting fuel through.
Issues would be for me: 1. a good strong mounting position, 2. fit it when needed or have it in place all the time,3. is there a risk it gets swamped, 4. fuel storage. Don`t think I`d want to be fitting it when danger threatens and the diesel has failed so I`d want it in situ all the time.
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Old 12-08-2012, 07:41 PM   #24
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Here's the Garelick 175 lb model - looks just like mine:
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Old 12-08-2012, 07:51 PM   #25
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Having a small hp kicker OB is very common in the PWN use mainly for trolling. Usually the main engine is to fast so a smaller hp is needed. The size hp is dependant on the size of boat. They are mounted on/to the boat before its put in the water. Many boat have them permenatly mounted. There is a chart 30+ ft out of Everrett that has at least 20+ mou.ted on the back. The are ment to go slow but still make head way. The Eagles main engine is only 165 hp. Our 19ft run about has 140 hp, so it does not take much hp.
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Old 12-08-2012, 07:52 PM   #26
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Ron,
Marin's post about that guy up north w the DeFever was a one in a million possibility. You could boat in those waters for 1000 years and not get in that predicament. Kinda like Marin's anchor. He wants enough holding power so he can anchor in a 100mph wind and not drag. And a 100mph wind IS possible but it's a 200 year event. This redundancy thing can go over the top and the guy w the DeFever is a good example. Marin you seem to be under the impression that tidal currents are awful up the coast but problematic tidal currents are less of a issue up north that down here .. I think. Sometimes I'm surprised Marin dosn't have 3 engines. Marin you don't need enough power in a get home to go 6 knots. Three knots should cover 99.5 % of what will really come to pass so lets talk about the 99.5%. That's what is going to give you trouble. But you're right a 2nd main engine does have that 6 knot capability. And if I was having Willy built new I'd have two 18hp engines installed.

Marin I don't know if a machine shop effort could be cost effective but I have that option as I did work in a machine shop for about 14 yrs.

BruceK,
Yes the gas is a problem. There usually are options though.
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Old 12-08-2012, 08:07 PM   #27
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BruceK,
Yes the gas is a problem. There usually are options though.
My outboard gets lashed down on deck (wish I had a good storage bracket spot), as does spare fuel. I`m horrified when I see an outboard and its fuel supply sitting in a bilge or aft lazarette. Neat and tidy,sure; safe, no way.
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Old 12-08-2012, 08:16 PM   #28
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If a 10 HP outboard would move my boat against the current and wind, why did they make it with a 200 HP diesel engine?

I have my doubts about a reasonable sized outboard providing satisfatory performance. And of course, it would require carrying supply of fresh gasoline onboard.
I've played around with this idea and a ten horse can do the job the problem is getting the engine mounted so the prop is either below the boat bottom or you mount the engine a good distance aft of the stern so the prop gets smoothwater. To close to the transom and i think the water just goes in a circle and the boat dosent go anywere. You dont need a lot of power to move your boat 2-3knts just need the prop to be in clear water. I found that mounting the motor straight alowed me to steer by using the rudder sorta and for tight turns one has to use the outboard. A short or long shaft outboard didnt work well but my extralong shaft high torq merc 9.9 i believe will do the job. I've been thinking of useing it this way on a trawler but as yet i havent done so. The 9.9 won't go slow enough with its big prop on my alaskan the 115hp merc main engine goes slower. That high thrust 9.9 is powerful
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Old 12-08-2012, 08:18 PM   #29
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With regards to outboards staying reliable even though they are not used very much, we have greatly enhanced the reliability of our two and four stroke outboards by running them dry when we know they aren't going to used again for a few weeks or if we don't know at all when we might use them next.

And on the advice off Seattle's top Yamaha dealer we take the extra, easy step of draining the float bowls of all traces of fuel. Even when a motor is run until it stops on its own there is usually fuel left in the bottom of the bowl. What a difference it makes in starting them the next time, even if next time is four or five months down the road.

We now do the same thing with our generator, lawn mower, etc. at home.

And we have started running our outboards, lawn mower, etc. on ethanol-free fuel, which means we can use a fuel stabilizer without the risk of creating a lot of water in the fuel.
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Old 12-08-2012, 08:47 PM   #30
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If you're going to use a dedicated outboard for a get home engine, I really like the idea of a propane engine. It should be able to sit unused for months and start with no problem plus you can store the fuel forever without it going bad. I'm going to buy a 9.9 Lehr when they come out. (Early January?) I've started building a little 14 ft Glen L skiff just for the engine.
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Old 12-08-2012, 09:06 PM   #31
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Ok guys, I'm back. What did i miss? I just had to run down to the marina and tell all the guys with the 9.9 and 15hp kickers on their boats that they wont work.
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Old 12-08-2012, 09:09 PM   #32
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This is an example of most boaters' "get home motor." But in this photo taken today, The Vessel Assist boat is side-towing the cruiser from a berth to someplace else.


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Old 12-08-2012, 09:29 PM   #33
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Here's one from our marina. I haven't had a chance to chat with them yet. We have steep, close waves in our long channels, so I'd be interested in how it behaves in a following sea.

I'm leaning towards propane too. The fibreglass tanks are pretty cool, in that you can see how much is in the tank.
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Old 12-08-2012, 09:49 PM   #34
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Ok guys, I'm back. What did i miss? I just had to run down to the marina and tell all the guys with the 9.9 and 15hp kickers on their boats that they wont work.
Well now wait a minute. What did you tell them they wouldn't work FOR?

If you said they wouldn't work as kickers for salmon trolling you'll have to run back down there and humbly beg their forgiveness and say you're sorry, you were wrong, and that they'll work great as a trolling motor if their boats aren't too big and if they don't try to troll in a full gale.

But if you told them that they wouldn't work so great to get their 40 foot or whatever boats out of trouble after their main engine fails out in the middle of the Strait of Georgia on a 35 knot day I think you can safely stay home now, throw another log on the fire and treat yourself to another glass of Talisker knowing that you gave them some pretty good advice.
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Old 12-08-2012, 10:32 PM   #35
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Here's one from our marina. I haven't had a chance to chat with them yet. We have steep, close waves in our long channels, so I'd be interested in how it behaves in a following sea.

I'm leaning towards propane too. The fibreglass tanks are pretty cool, in that you can see how much is in the tank.
Is that a cover or cage around the prop, are they standard or required by regulation.
The risk of a low mounted outboard getting wet worried me too. I know how wet our swim platform gets, that`s about the level the O/B would be. Unless you find a really looooong shaft version.
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Old 12-08-2012, 10:37 PM   #36
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Having a full disp hull is a huge advantage for get home power as much less power is required to push the boat in the vicinity of 1/2 hull speed. One hp per ton should do the trick.

But the semi-disp square stern boats that are typical of trawlers (Heavy Cruisers) have it all over the double enders w a nice big swim step. Perfect place to mount the OB and one can even step down to service the engine.

I'm not a fan of propane OBs but here they may have an advantage. But I don't see any high thrust propane OBs.

And Marin most engine failures don't happen in the Georgia Strait in 35 knot winds however my engine failure DID happen out in Georgia Strait but only in 20 knot winds and the wind mostly petered out. But I had 400' of anchor rode and beaches within 10 miles of me were rather shallow. It's MOST engine failures that need to be addressed. Not the very rare extreme situation.
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Old 12-08-2012, 10:48 PM   #37
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If you're going to use a dedicated outboard for a get home engine, I really like the idea of a propane engine. It should be able to sit unused for months and start with no problem plus you can store the fuel forever without it going bad. I'm going to buy a 9.9 Lehr when they come out. (Early January?) I've started building a little 14 ft Glen L skiff just for the engine.
not a bad idea. But you will have to carry a pretty big propane tank if it is to be a get home engine. Why not just use your generators power to run an AC electric v belted to your prop shaft? Diesel electric is the best for heavy loads and fuel eficiency6 just ask the railroads
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Old 12-08-2012, 10:49 PM   #38
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But if you told them that they wouldn't work so great to get their 40 foot or whatever boats out of trouble after their main engine fails out in the middle of the Strait of Georgia on a 35 knot day I think you can safely stay home now, throw another log on the fire and treat yourself to another glass of Talisker knowing that you gave them some pretty good advice.
If you tried to beat your way upwind you probably have a point, but if you had that 15 horse kicker on your 40 footer (or a 9.9 on a 30 footer) it would still be 100% better than being dead in the water with no options at all...especially if it wasn't the Strait of Georgia, but some isolated north coast BC or Alaskan inlet.

As a sea kayaker, I've 'ferry glided' across some wide channels against wind and current; you point into the wind and/or current, set your angle for their combined strengths, lean forward, and start paddling. You have to paddle about twice the distance of the channel, and it takes what feels forever, but the net effect is to move straight across the channel.

The same would hold true with a kicker, as long as you didn't have five times more boat out of the water as below it
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Old 12-08-2012, 11:06 PM   #39
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Is that a cover or cage around the prop, are they standard or required by regulation.
Purely optional prop guard.
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Old 12-08-2012, 11:06 PM   #40
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And Marin most engine failures don't happen in the Georgia Strait in 35 knot winds however my engine failure DID happen out in Georgia Strait but only in 20 knot winds and the wind mostly petered out. But I had 400' of anchor rode and beaches within 10 miles of me were rather shallow. It's MOST engine failures that need to be addressed. Not the very rare extreme situation.
Well, most of the people, power and sail boaters, I'm familiar with in this area who have had to shut their engines down-- like ours, the engines didn't fail, it was some other system that failed that required the engine to be shut down-- had this occur under less than ideal conditions. Rough water, strong winds, strong currents, that sort of thing. All of the cases where it was a single engine boat they finished their run on the end of a rope. The twins, like us, simply kept going on the other engine.

But it's usually Murphy's Law that wins out here. When something bad happens it usually happens at the worst possible time.
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