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Old 03-31-2014, 10:37 AM   #41
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A friend had his Honda on the swim platform, and a freak wake washed it off into the water. It was tied up, so he recovered it. Rinsed it off and let it dry in the sun and it worked another year!!!

Nice little machines, hard to beat the cost equation. I still prefer my little diesel gennie, though.

And getting back to the original post, it is ludicrous to use cost/kwH or similar metrics on gennies, or for that matter the whole boat, fish caught, or even cars.

Buy a fishing boat and catch a fish. Divide cost of boat by weight of fish. Pretty expensive fish.

If you apply financial metrics to all parts of your life, and make decisions based purely on the financials, you are going to live a very boring life.
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Old 03-31-2014, 12:10 PM   #42
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A friend had his Honda on the swim platform, and a freak wake washed it off into the water. It was tied up, so he recovered it. Rinsed it off and let it dry in the sun and it worked another year!!!

Nice little machines, hard to beat the cost equation. I still prefer my little diesel gennie, though.

And getting back to the original post, it is ludicrous to use cost/kwH or similar metrics on gennies, or for that matter the whole boat, fish caught, or even cars.

Buy a fishing boat and catch a fish. Divide cost of boat by weight of fish. Pretty expensive fish.

If you apply financial metrics to all parts of your life, and make decisions based purely on the financials, you are going to live a very boring life.
Yo Ski - But a very full bank account - maybe??
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Old 03-31-2014, 03:47 PM   #43
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I am relatively new to boats and I have learned int hat short time that figuring the cost of something is purely for arguments sake...

if it REALLY mattered, why would anyone EVER own a boat???
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Old 03-31-2014, 04:33 PM   #44
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I am relatively new to boats and I have learned int hat short time that figuring the cost of something is purely for arguments sake...

if it REALLY mattered, why would anyone EVER own a boat???
Bingo - On most levels...

In that: IMO, the most important time to actually be counting on all fingers and toes (regarding boat costs) is when reviewing a boat to purchase. Once you own her, you're basically wed to her, and - she owns you too! Before purchase you can still get away pretty clean before a full-on marriage to any boat... after paying and signing on the dotted line... you had better counted on all your digits correctly!

Happy Boat Costing Daze! - Art
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Old 03-31-2014, 05:19 PM   #45
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I am relatively new to boats and I have learned int hat short time that figuring the cost of something is purely for arguments sake...

if it REALLY mattered, why would anyone EVER own a boat???
SD! Long time, no read!! Glad to see you wading in these treacherous waters again!

I like to call it rationalization.

It seems like an exercise in futility like using a cheap camera to photograph a quickly moving target. The results are vague and blurry and never the same twice, but you feel better trying to capture the moment in time.
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Old 03-31-2014, 06:00 PM   #46
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Nigel Calder has an excellent article in this months PBB working out the cost per KW of AC power and battery charging.

www.proboat.com/

The numbers are frightening the high side is $19.00 per KW.

Most boat yards will have a copy or two , sit down before reading the true costs of your noisemaker.

I would copy and post it , but dont know the copyright laws .
Yea, Mr. Calder is also involved in some sort of study of electric or hybrid propulsion for boats as opposed to conventional diesel. It's in some magazine I read lately.

I don't doubt his intelligence or his work but some of this stuff doesn't really have a practical use for us mere boat owners. If you believe you need a genset to boat you're going to buy a genset regardless of the cost per KWH. The fact that electricity on a boat costs more than electricity at home is irrelevant.
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Old 03-31-2014, 09:03 PM   #47
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Ron

My take on Calder's writings are he is still trying to come up with positive financials for diesel electric on boats we use. He is as stumped as you and many of us are, but he is a busy writer so some arcane paragraph or two may come from his pen suggesting a likely seemingly positive outcome. Then the next day arrives. --------
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Old 03-31-2014, 11:44 PM   #48
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Nope. It sits on the swim platform when we are using it, plugged right into the regular shore power cord with a 30 to 15 amp adapter.
We picked up the same adapter for our Honda gen. Makes it super easy to use when needed. We bought it last August as our NextGen suffered a loss of raw water (plugged intake) and the local repair companies were booking in October/November! As we were "out" for another month, the Honda was purchased as an interim generator. Now, after the main genny got fixed, the Honda is our backup gen.
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Old 04-01-2014, 06:33 AM   #49
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I don't doubt his intelligence or his work but some of this stuff doesn't really have a practical use for us mere boat owners. If you believe you need a genset to boat you're going to buy a genset regardless of the cost per KWH. The fact that electricity on a boat costs more than electricity at home is irrelevant. __________________

True , BUT with planning and better operation hourly costs can be cut dramatically.

$10, per hour is lots better than $18 for some folks.
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Old 04-01-2014, 07:44 AM   #50
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I don't doubt his intelligence or his work but some of this stuff doesn't really have a practical use for us mere boat owners. If you believe you need a genset to boat you're going to buy a genset regardless of the cost per KWH. The fact that electricity on a boat costs more than electricity at home is irrelevant. __________________

True , BUT with planning and better operation hourly costs can be cut dramatically.

$10, per hour is lots better than $18 for some folks.
I think most of us here realize that the best set up is to pair your generator with a good size battery bank and inverter. We have two 110v refrigerators aboard, plus the other required 110v stuff like TV, coffemaker, range, and water heater. We coordinate the use of the heavy duty stuff like cooking, heating water with the charging of the batteries. A few hours of genset run in the morning and a few hours in the evening does it, with the rest of the time running on inverter.
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Old 04-01-2014, 09:01 AM   #51
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>We coordinate the use of the heavy duty stuff like cooking, heating water with the charging of the batteries.<

Does that mean co generation , the gen set coolant, with heat exchanger heats the fresh water for >free<?

Or you need to diesel fuel/noisemaker 1.5KW per hour just to heat some water?

The entire point of the Calder article is with some engineering the same lifestyle can be maintained at far lower cost.
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Old 04-01-2014, 09:23 AM   #52
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We work it simple as can be! Run our 7.5 Kohler gen about 1.5 hrs per day to keep batts up, food/coffee cooked, water hot/warm, ac refrig cold, computers and phones charged... etc. At that rate we stay on hook for any number of days.

As energy assistance-savers:

- Watch movies on 17” computer screen
- Keep small block of ice on refer’s top shelf
- Do a lot of BBQing
- Swim a lot - few showers needed
- Keep soft light in cabins with rechargeable battery hanging lights
- Heat on cool days with HeatMate alcohol heater/warmer
- Even though have one - don’t need AC at all

And - we don't have or need for or want an inverter!

Living in the temperate climate of Nor Cal and boating in the very good climate, warm fresh waters of SF Bay Delta makes life easy aboard boat – or anywhere near for that matter!

Happy Boating GenSet Days! – Art

PS: figure our gen uses about .75 gal per hr. Four day anchor out costs approx $25.00 in gen set fuel.
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Old 04-01-2014, 10:11 AM   #53
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>We coordinate the use of the heavy duty stuff like cooking, heating water with the charging of the batteries.<

Does that mean co generation , the gen set coolant, with heat exchanger heats the fresh water for >free<?

Or you need to diesel fuel/noisemaker 1.5KW per hour just to heat some water?
The main will heat water while we are underway, the generator has no such hookup. However, consider while we are running that generator, the batteries are getting a 90 amp charge, the stove is cooking breakfast and the water is heating for a morning shower. Lot of co-generation going on there...
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Old 04-01-2014, 10:28 AM   #54
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The main will heat water while we are underway, the generator has no such hookup. However, consider while we are running that generator, the batteries are getting a 90 amp charge, the stove is cooking breakfast and the water is heating for a morning shower. Lot of co-generation going on there...
That's what I'm finding. I can run the gen set for an hour while cooking breakfast and dinner. That gives me hot water and puts enough juice back in the house bank for the rest of the day or night. I could run it just once a day if I'm underway for at least an hour or two. If it's a longer passage, I may not need the gen set at all, unless I want to use the electric stove.

The only problem would be if we needed the air conditioners running all night or all day. For that, my Honda eu2000i will do the trick. It's much quieter and more fuel-efficient, and it's a good backup if the 7.5KW diesel fails. I could certainly survive without a generator, but I'd be relying on the mains more and wouldn't want to stay anchored or moored out for as long. So a backup generator makes sense for me.
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Old 04-01-2014, 11:19 AM   #55
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The only problem would be if we needed the air conditioners running all night or all day. For that, my Honda eu2000i will do the trick. It's much quieter and more fuel-efficient, and it's a good backup if the 7.5KW diesel fails. I could certainly survive without a generator, but I'd be relying on the mains more and wouldn't want to stay anchored or moored out for as long. So a backup generator makes sense for me.
Capt Tom - what size AC? We have a 16k and 12k BTU, the honda won't push either one. My last boat had a 10k unit that the honda would run. I think that is about the limit unless you have one of those slow start capacitors.
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Old 04-01-2014, 12:54 PM   #56
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Capt Tom - what size AC? We have a 16k and 12k BTU, the honda won't push either one. My last boat had a 10k unit that the honda would run. I think that is about the limit unless you have one of those slow start capacitors.
On my last boat, I ran the 9,000 BTU Mermaid on the Honda without a second thought, while also powering the charger and other loads.

This time I have 2 15,000 BTU Dometic units that use about 10A each. Add a couple more amps for the pump and fan for about 12A each, or 1,440 Watts. So I can run one and have a little left over for a few other small loads. The compressor start is delayed from the pump start, but even so I'm sure there's a bit of an overload for the fraction of a second while it's starting. But it does work.
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Old 04-01-2014, 01:28 PM   #57
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We picked up the same adapter for our Honda gen. Makes it super easy to use when needed.
Same here...

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Old 04-01-2014, 03:41 PM   #58
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Where did you order that from, Al? I need one also.
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Old 04-01-2014, 04:00 PM   #59
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That was a long time ago, John. I don't recall. I'd get the model number and search online...I think it was about $25-30.

Is this what you're looking for?

Marinco Shore Power Straight Adapter 83A 30A Locking to 15A Straight NIP | eBay
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Old 04-01-2014, 04:37 PM   #60
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Yeah, but I cannot deal with eBay. Thought you might have a recommended source. No problem -- I'll google it. I have the name now, and I have a lot of confidence in Google, even though I don't like them. :-) Thanks.
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