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Old 03-29-2014, 07:07 AM   #21
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...I would say that this discussion depends on where you live.
The need for a generator and thus air-conditioning is very different in Florida in the summer vs New England.

The fuel cost to run my genny for 12 hrs with the air-con on is $45, that's irrespective of all other costs with genny ownership. About half the costs of many marinas.

Anyone basing the costs of running a genny on their decision to enjoy the boating life may well consider another activity.

If FF original post was to get people to thinking of alternative power sources, most posters including me defended the use of their genny's, so in that regard he or we missed the boat.
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Old 03-29-2014, 07:33 AM   #22
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Not free, my boat is pure electric, I burn about a gallon an hour on the genset so running it 24 hours, 102 bucks a day. Marinas are about the same so staying on the hook can cost the same, now South Florida it pays to be on the hook considering I've seen marinas at 4 bucks a foot!!
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Old 03-29-2014, 11:05 AM   #23
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I average about 1.5 hours of genset use per cruising day in the PNW. A small price to pay in the big scheme of boating activities. No heavy air conditioning use for us until well into Mexico, which is now on our no fly zone.

As mentioned by others, we too enjoy a non Coleman stove endeavor as e cruise.
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Old 03-29-2014, 11:39 AM   #24
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Will 2 Kw run elect stove or oven (each seperatly during operation) and small elect fridge and 40 to 80 amp batt charger at same time? Inquiring mind wants to know - i.e. Me
While Honda calls it an eu2000i and it puts out 2KW max, it's rated for 1600W continuous output.

I don't have an electric oven, mine is propane, so I can't address the power requirements of an electric range. I run my small fridge on a 1000W inverter but it can easily be run by the Honda gennie while also running the charger (55A) and either a coffee maker or microwave or water heater. I don't run those last 3 at the same time due to gen limits. When I forget, the gen overload protection circuitry kicks in and the power output ceases, but the generator continues to run.

Ironically, the highest draw item on my boat isn't the microwave or the water heater...it's a small Keurig coffee maker at 1500W. To be a good neighbor, I keep a smaller 600W Mr. Coffee style coffee pot onboard for use with the inverter when needed in the early morning in an occupied anchorage. My microwave can also be operated by the inverter for an early morning breakfast.

If I needed air conditioning, this eu2000i wouldn't cut it. RVers parallel 2 of these together to run AC units. That really wouldn't be practical on my boat.
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Old 03-29-2014, 12:21 PM   #25
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A beautiful anchorage beats a dock any day, whatever the costs!
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Old 03-29-2014, 01:30 PM   #26
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I figure the cost of anchoring is almost as much as tying to a dock, with a lot less hassle. Being our gen set is old 1978 with 3000 hours on it, and it powers the hydraulic bow thruster I been sort of babying it. Cost about 10+ grand to replace. When out in open water I switch to the cruise gen powered by the 671, so its sort of freeer as there is no/little effect on the 671. Personally Boaters are fooling them self to think anchoring is cheap/free. Now if there is no dock to tie up to then there is not other choice, but its still expensive.

Phil: could I ask you two questions...I'm just curious. First, why do you have your hydraulic pump coupled to your genset rather than to a propulsion engine? And second, are you operating your cruisegen while underway because you run air-con underway or for some other reason? (or to ask another way....if not for air-con, why can't alternators+inverter keep up?)?

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Old 03-29-2014, 01:50 PM   #27
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We love to plug in at our dock - For bout 3 hrs it takes to load boat and wash off dust, launch our tow behind runabout, and pull awary from dock toward pleasures aboard!

We love to plug in at our dock - For bout 3 hrs it takes to offload, put runabout back into storage, and clean up till next boating visit!

I love to plug in at our dock - For occasional day long solo trip I make for maintenances.

We love to plug in at dock - For the very seldom multi day visits when weather is simply to damn messy to bother going out - that's in Winter only!

WE LOVE TO BE AWAY FROM DOCK, OUT ON OUR TOLLY BOAT – And. to use our gen set approx 1.5 hrs per day! We enjoy the freedom our self contained Tolly affords us out and about for multi fun-day fun-weekends throughout Spring, Summer, Fall...

If you own a boat – Actual cost of owning/running of gen set is basically a footnote on excel spread sheet for overall boat ownership expenses!!


BUT - Owning/running a gen set while out on boat ain't no footnote when it comes to assistances during cruising, anchoring and other available, affordable boat-use pleasures!


Happy GenSet Boating Daze! - Art
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Old 03-29-2014, 03:21 PM   #28
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Winner, Winner - Chicken Dinner!

Al, Only way to beat that gen set fuel cost is to have it pay you! Congrats!

Will 2 Kw run elect stove or oven (each seperatly during operation) and small elect fridge and 40 to 80 amp batt charger at same time? Inquiring mind wants to know - i.e. Me
Art

We have a honda as well a an 8kw Onan. The honda will push both my battery chargers (40 amp pro mariner and 50 amp Heart freedom 10). It will also run a single burner on the princess range, but not while charging the batteries. It is a great little unit to have on board when you don't need the heavy lifting that the Onan can do. Also, with a pull starter, never any worries about dead starting battery. And as mentioned, it really is a fuel sipper.

-Ron
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Old 03-29-2014, 03:40 PM   #29
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Art

We have a honda as well a an 8kw Onan. The honda will push both my battery chargers (40 amp pro mariner and 50 amp Heart freedom 10). It will also run a single burner on the princess range, but not while charging the batteries. It is a great little unit to have on board when you don't need the heavy lifting that the Onan can do. Also, with a pull starter, never any worries about dead starting battery. And as mentioned, it really is a fuel sipper.

-Ron
Thanks for input Ron!

Sounds interesting... You have it permanently affixed some location aboard with gasoline exhaust safely routed? And, if so, is it hotwired into your main elect panel’s applicable breakers?
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Old 03-30-2014, 06:52 AM   #30
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>First, why do you have your hydraulic pump coupled to your genset rather than to a propulsion engine?<

This is the best hookup as most boats may wish to use the bow or stern thrusters while docking.
The propulsion engine is usually iat idle while docking , so little hyd power is available.

An 1800RPM noisemaker will provide whatever power is available from the size hyd pump installed, usually plenty for thrusters.

Also hyd boats will use the joy of hyd for loads of tasks , the windlass is happy as is the boat hoist with most small noisemaker spinning the pump.

A hyd pump on the propulsion engine is a good choice for cruising AC electric power , stableizers, and steering with AP.
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Old 03-30-2014, 08:49 AM   #31
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For us it's pretty simple with all the things we need "electricity" for. For cruising, when we disconnect the shore power cords, we start up a generator.
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Old 03-30-2014, 02:11 PM   #32
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BandB: I assume you do not have an inverter & that is why you run the generator while cruising?
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Old 03-30-2014, 02:34 PM   #33
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BandB: I assume you do not have an inverter & that is why you run the generator while cruising?
Do have an inverter. Just have a lot of things to power. We do have times we do run on inverter only but that's rare. Depends somewhat on which boat. On one of our boats we will run regularly without the generator. But as you add more and more things it becomes less practical. At the moment we're on a charter boat and when we pull away from the dock will have AC, refrigerator, two freezers, washer and dryer using electricity. Perhaps stove or microwave or electric grill as well. The boat we're on at the moment has a 4800 watt inverter and 33 kw and 28 kw generators. Also the gens have PTO's for the thrusters. Now recognize this is a larger boat we're on at the moment.
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Old 03-30-2014, 02:38 PM   #34
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BandB: I assume you do not have an inverter & that is why you run the generator while cruising?
Curious as to what you find you're able to run on your inverter?
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Old 03-30-2014, 03:16 PM   #35
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B&B: I have a 300W inverter...240v here in Australia. I don't ever run air-con while underway. I have 160A and 120A alternators on my propulsion engines (both de-rated by 20% via smart regulators) and the Stbd engine also runs a hydraulic pump for stabilizers. I have no other hydraulics (well the auto-pilot/steering system, but that's 12v). Underway and/or anchored out, we use microwave, d/washer, elec convection oven, 240v fridge, washer, dryer, coffee maker, hair dryers (spouse & teenage daughter)...and can do all that with the inverter off our 970Ah house bank. Sure, we don't turn everything on at the same time...but we don't need to think about it much, as we wouldn't normally be wanting to do that anyway. BUT even if we did, the inverter is a Victron and this, like MasterVolt, can be parallel’d to genset or to a 2nd (or 3rd) inverter if need be: haven't found it necessary.

Apart from running air-con while underway in very hot/humid conditions (which would be found only in northern Australia & in summer by and large), I don't get the concept of operating the genny while cruising. Seems to me a correctly sized house bank, alternator/regulator charging system and inverter should be able to cope with everything pretty easily while underway. As for hydraulics, I would have thought running stabilizers off the propulsion engine made the most sense for that application (you don't use stabilizers unless underway....note exception for newer stabilization-at-anchor options). So that would leave turning on the genny for hydraulic davit/winch/thruster...just when docking/anchoring/launching the tender, not during the cruise itself.

We use the genset very, very rarely. Occasional very hot summer night at anchor for air-con (maybe once a year in Sydney region); or to top up batteries if we've been anchored out in one spot for 3 days without re-locating and House bank is at 60%.

Interesting how different people use and set up their boats differently, isn't it?
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Old 03-30-2014, 03:40 PM   #36
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My inverter (making 110-volt power) is used to run the boat's air compressor, small electrical devices, the occasional power tool, the water heater (also uses engine heat), and a small electric heater. Don't have A/C, TV, microwave, electric stove (use propane), or coffee maker. And don't have a genset (declined the $7,500 option for a 3.5KW genset). Power comes from shore, the engine's 140-amp alternator, or the house batteries. The boat's dual 24-volt 200 AH AGM house batteries last two days/nights at anchor if not making heat and still have over 60% capacity left. The engine's alternator provides plenty of power while underway.
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Old 03-30-2014, 03:44 PM   #37
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B&B: I have a 300W inverter...240v here in Australia. I don't ever run air-con while underway. I have 160A and 120A alternators on my propulsion engines (both de-rated by 20% via smart regulators) and the Stbd engine also runs a hydraulic pump for stabilizers. I have no other hydraulics (well the auto-pilot/steering system, but that's 12v). Underway and/or anchored out, we use microwave, d/washer, elec convection oven, 240v fridge, washer, dryer, coffee maker, hair dryers (spouse & teenage daughter)...and can do all that with the inverter off our 970Ah house bank. Sure, we don't turn everything on at the same time...but we don't need to think about it much, as we wouldn't normally be wanting to do that anyway. BUT even if we did, the inverter is a Victron and this, like MasterVolt, can be parallel’d to genset or to a 2nd (or 3rd) inverter if need be: haven't found it necessary.

Apart from running air-con while underway in very hot/humid conditions (which would be found only in northern Australia & in summer by and large), I don't get the concept of operating the genny while cruising. Seems to me a correctly sized house bank, alternator/regulator charging system and inverter should be able to cope with everything pretty easily while underway. As for hydraulics, I would have thought running stabilizers off the propulsion engine made the most sense for that application (you don't use stabilizers unless underway....note exception for newer stabilization-at-anchor options). So that would leave turning on the genny for hydraulic davit/winch/thruster...just when docking/anchoring/launching the tender, not during the cruise itself.

We use the genset very, very rarely. Occasional very hot summer night at anchor for air-con (maybe once a year in Sydney region); or to top up batteries if we've been anchored out in one spot for 3 days without re-locating and House bank is at 60%.

Interesting how different people use and set up their boats differently, isn't it?
It is interesting to find differences. And in this case some of the huge differences are both location and type and size boat combined with just personal preferences. When we're in an open boat or coupe type then very little load as we're not running air conditioning or really doing much in the galley. Now when we're in a larger boat like the one we're chartering right now, and in South Florida or the gulf, then we run the air conditioning the vast majority of time. And since we are on an 85', there is an 8 ton and a 2 ton unit.
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Old 03-30-2014, 04:36 PM   #38
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A beautiful anchorage beats a dock any day, whatever the costs!
Without a genset chugging away! Yours or someone else's.
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Old 03-31-2014, 05:59 AM   #39
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Thanks for input Ron!

Sounds interesting... You have it permanently affixed some location aboard with gasoline exhaust safely routed? And, if so, is it hotwired into your main elect panel’s applicable breakers?
Nope. It sits on the swim platform when we are using it, plugged right into the regular shore power cord with a 30 to 15 amp adapter.
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Old 03-31-2014, 10:06 AM   #40
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Nope. It sits on the swim platform when we are using it, plugged right into the regular shore power cord with a 30 to 15 amp adapter.
Simple and Cool!
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