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Old 10-17-2011, 07:41 PM   #1
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Fuel valving schematic or picture.

twin engines, two tanks, does anyone have a picture of their fuel valving set up or a schematic? Thanks
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Old 10-17-2011, 08:03 PM   #2
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RE: Fuel valving schematic or picture.

I just redid my entire fuel rig last winter (search the forums... it's all there), and I have to say that if you are planning on an overhaul, half the fun is coming up with the system that works for you on your own. A system with the same config as you may need a different plumbing setup than you.
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Old 10-17-2011, 08:16 PM   #3
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RE: Fuel valving schematic or picture.

Quote:
Fighterpilot wrote:
twin engines, two tanks, does anyone have a picture of their fuel valving set up or a schematic? Thanks
*Twin engines, two tanks no.* Twin engines (plus generator), five tanks, yes.
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Old 10-17-2011, 08:41 PM   #4
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RE: Fuel valving schematic or picture.

Mine is poorly laid out and I can't find a picture of it anyway but what you want in effect is a withdrawal manifold that can select either or both tanks as its source and then direct the flow to either or both engines (and the gennie if applicable). On the return side you want exactly the same manifold so that you can return to either or both tanks from any source. Some systems are more intuitively laid out than others - its hard to imagine a less intuitive layout than what we bought but it has all the features so it works and it will likely be exactly the same whenever we sell the boat. If you want to add a polishing system then it just crosses between the two manifolds.
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Old 10-18-2011, 12:34 AM   #5
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Fuel valving schematic or picture.

I've got one engine and four fuel tanks, but this might help.* In the schematic, just*substite the "engine" circuit for the genset (which I don't have) to get you two engines.* The schematic also includes a fuel polisher.* The schematic just shows two fuel tanks.* Excuse the duplicate photo.


-- Edited by markpierce on Tuesday 18th of October 2011 12:36:34 AM
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Old 10-18-2011, 09:45 AM   #6
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RE: Fuel valving schematic or picture.

Holy freakin' Toledo!!!! Nice install, but WOW!!!
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Old 10-18-2011, 09:49 AM   #7
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RE: Fuel valving schematic or picture.

Quote:
Jenny wrote:
Any combination can be used for feeding fuel to the engines or for polishing.* Or both at the same time.
*How do you feed the port engine from the port tank and stbd from stbd tank while feeding the generators from another tank?
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Old 10-18-2011, 10:24 AM   #8
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RE: Fuel valving schematic or picture.

The short version: All the engines are supplied from a single source and if that source becomes contaminated all engines quit at the same time.
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Old 10-18-2011, 10:31 AM   #9
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RE: Fuel valving schematic or picture.

Dick - Questions
<ul>[*]Did the vessel have dirty fuel problems before you undertook the makeover[*]How many years to build up 1" of gunk[*]Do your tanks have drain valves on the bottom[*]How old are*the tanks and how many more years in them[*]To my eye they look very good on the inside, based upon what you found would you use steel or ?? on a new build[/list]Thanks for sharing

*

*
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Old 10-18-2011, 12:08 PM   #10
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RE: Fuel valving schematic or picture.

Quote:
Jenny wrote:
Being that my tankage allows me to*only operate with*100% garanteed polished fuel,

There are many single engine boats that have crossed oceans with less redundancy in the fuel system.
Fuel contamination can be more than just water or solids that can be filtered.

People have rowed across the ocean, what has that got to do with fuel systems?

Your fuel system has reduncancy in superflous pumps and filters but has a glaring single point failure mode that will take out all four engines at once. It is a bad design.
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Old 10-18-2011, 03:22 PM   #11
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RE: Fuel valving schematic or picture.

Well actually, I achieved that goal a long time ago. That is why it only took about 5 seconds to spot the design flaw in that system. It looks to me like it was designed by a plumbing parts salesman.

Is it painted black to hide the solder joints?*
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Old 10-18-2011, 06:11 PM   #12
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RE: Fuel valving schematic or picture.

Appreciate the pictures and schematics. Thanks
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Old 10-18-2011, 06:19 PM   #13
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RE: Fuel valving schematic or picture.

Rick's got a point.* I failed to mention in the description of our system that we can split the manifolds which allows us to draw each engine from a separate tank or cross over so that one engine feeds from the opposite side of the boat.* And similar with the returns.* That's probably a really important feature.
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Old 10-18-2011, 07:17 PM   #14
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RE: Fuel valving schematic or picture.

Quote:
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RickB, you are living in a dream world.* Your goal in life appears to be an authority in nautical systems but obviously without any real world knowledge or experience.
*Just a cautionary suggestion here but before slamming someone's lack of experience based on what one assumes to be true, it is usually a good idea to first determine if the person really does lack experience.* If they do, then slam away :-)*

But in the case of Rick, to assume he has no real world experience is a REALLY bad assumption.* Regardless of how one views his approach to posts on TF, his clients are yacht and megayacht owners and operators all over the world, and, from what he has told me, his responsibilities include the design, installation, operation, repair, and crew training on a variety of marine systems.* He's been doing this a long time and, based on the scale of a couple of projects he's briefly described to me, he's real good at it.* His clients are the kind of people who can afford the best and afford to hire someone else if they aren't satisfied.

I can't say if he's right on everything he says on TF because most of the discussions he participates in are a long ways over my level of knowledge.* But whether or not one likes the way he expresses himself, I don't think it's valid to assume that he doesn't know what he's talking about, or that what he says is not based on real-world knowledge or experience.

I believe it's a bad idea to make assumptions about the experience level of anyone on TF unless they come right out and say they're a newbie.* I*made*an assumption*quite awhile ago about Eric and while it took too long to sink in, I came to realize I could not have been more wrong about his level of nautical*knowledge and*experience, both of which I will never come close to* achieving in my lifetime.* We may not always agree, but I would be a fool to attribute those issues we don't agree on to a lack of knowledge or experience on his part.* More likely, it's due to MY lack of knowledge or experience.

So be careful out there.......
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Old 10-19-2011, 04:51 AM   #15
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RE: Fuel valving schematic or picture.

Lets hope Rick B has the time to post a "proper" fuel setup.
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Old 10-19-2011, 07:25 AM   #16
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RE: Fuel valving schematic or picture.

Quote:
Fighterpilot wrote:
twin engines, two tanks, does anyone have a picture of their fuel valving set up or a schematic?
*Here you go ... depending on your existing tank fittings this may require alteration.

*
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Old 10-19-2011, 07:50 AM   #17
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RE: Fuel valving schematic or picture.

Almost without exception, large yachts intended for "long range" operations are fitted with two separate day tanks that are valved to supply each main engine and generator separately or not as desired. Normal practice is to keep the centrifuge online and discharging to one or both day tanks that when full overflow through a "bullseye" to a centerline tank which also supplys the centrifuge. When the centerline level drops to a certain point the centrifuge suction is selected to a fuel storage tank.

The object of a good design is that the failure of a single valve or pump or component* will not lead to a complete loss of propulsion.
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Old 10-19-2011, 08:08 AM   #18
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RE: Fuel valving schematic or picture.

DIck**- Questions/comments
  1. In your case, it seems 250 gallons is more than a day tank. In my case, with*a 5gph or so*fuel burn I have two 80 gallon day tanks that can be used at will.
  2. Why Racors and not multi stage spin ons
  3. What line size and pump gpm do you use for polishing
  4. Do you intend to use your vessel for blue water cruising, island hopping or ----
  5. Does your system require a fuel pump for engine operation beyond the on engine
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Old 10-19-2011, 08:14 AM   #19
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RE: Fuel valving schematic or picture.

Quote:
Jenny wrote:What caused me to make the comment is the lack of understanding of the concept of a day tank ...
*Do you understand the concept now?*
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Old 10-19-2011, 11:35 AM   #20
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RE: Fuel valving schematic or picture.

Quote:
Jenny wrote:
In retrospect*I should not have posted the design because we are obviously talking about different types of vessels with*different intended uses.*

I guess if there is one thing that a person in this group can take away from this contibution is that it's perfectly okay to use off the shelf single flow gas rated valves* it.
Your boat doesn't look any different than the* boats owned by nearly all the members of this forum. From your description it doesn't appear to be used any differently either.

If you spent some time reading the previous forum posts on fuel systems you would have discovered that almost everyone who installs or replaces a fuel valve gets a ball valve from Home Depot.

One thing to take away from this is that if you are "designing" in a vacuum, the product will probably suck. Intuitive?

I am still curious how you connected all those copper elbows and Ts.
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