Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 11-21-2018, 10:57 AM   #1
Guru
 
angus99's Avatar
 
City: Signal Mtn., TN
Country: US
Vessel Name: Stella Maris
Vessel Model: Defever 44
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,978
Fuel Transfer/Polishing System

I have an inefficient home-built fuel polishing system that allows me to pull fuel from and return it to any of the three fuel tanks. Each morning, I filter some fuel from the saddle tanks and pump it to the aft centerline tankówhich I use as a day tank. That fuel goes through the usual primary Racor 500 (10 micron) and secondary NAPAs (currently also 10 microns but rethinking these) on each Lehman.

The aft tank was cleaned and I inspected it recently but the Racors still load up more than I think they shouldóprobably in 80 to 100 hours. I think the home-made paper towel polishing filter is the culprit. I plan to replace it with a Gulf Coast F1 filter and, while Iím at it, install a new transfer pump.

Whatís the consensus on the GC F1? Worth the exhorbitant cost? Iíve seen Walbro and Oberdorfer fuel pumps recommended for this. Walbro seems to have a lot of models with very little difference between themóthe biggest of which moves about 43 gallons per hour. Iíd like to move more like 50 gallons in 30 minutes to reduce transfer time while keeping the pump at 12 volts. Any thoughts?
__________________
Advertisement

angus99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2018, 12:51 PM   #2
Grand Vizier
 
Delfin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 3,398
Quote:
Originally Posted by angus99 View Post
I have an inefficient home-built fuel polishing system that allows me to pull fuel from and return it to any of the three fuel tanks. Each morning, I filter some fuel from the saddle tanks and pump it to the aft centerline tankówhich I use as a day tank. That fuel goes through the usual primary Racor 500 (10 micron) and secondary NAPAs (currently also 10 microns but rethinking these) on each Lehman.

The aft tank was cleaned and I inspected it recently but the Racors still load up more than I think they shouldóprobably in 80 to 100 hours. I think the home-made paper towel polishing filter is the culprit. I plan to replace it with a Gulf Coast F1 filter and, while Iím at it, install a new transfer pump.

Whatís the consensus on the GC F1? Worth the exhorbitant cost? Iíve seen Walbro and Oberdorfer fuel pumps recommended for this. Walbro seems to have a lot of models with very little difference between themóthe biggest of which moves about 43 gallons per hour. Iíd like to move more like 50 gallons in 30 minutes to reduce transfer time while keeping the pump at 12 volts. Any thoughts?
Do you have 110vac available for the pump?
__________________

Delfin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2018, 12:55 PM   #3
Guru
 
City: Carefree, Arizona
Country: usa
Vessel Name: sunchaser V
Vessel Model: DeFever 48
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,762
Angus
Might I suggest a large Fleetguard as your inter tank transfer filter? 30um should work just fine. My primaries never clog up, even after about 1500 gallons per side. I do no "polishing" whatsoever. Good fuel, no water lots of use and the sole owner of the boat may be the reason.

All the fittings to do the Fleetguard job right are available through SBAR. BTW, if not done already be sure the pump is on a timer.
sunchaser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2018, 02:27 PM   #4
Guru
 
angus99's Avatar
 
City: Signal Mtn., TN
Country: US
Vessel Name: Stella Maris
Vessel Model: Defever 44
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,978
Quote:
Originally Posted by Delfin View Post
Do you have 110vac available for the pump?
Yes, I could start the genset or, depending on the amperage draw, use the inverter. 110 vac outlet/line is within 3 feet of the existing pump.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sunchaser View Post
Angus
Might I suggest a large Fleetguard as your inter tank transfer filter? 30um should work just fine. My primaries never clog up, even after about 1500 gallons per side. I do no "polishing" whatsoever. Good fuel, no water lots of use and the sole owner of the boat may be the reason.

All the fittings to do the Fleetguard job right are available through SBAR. BTW, if not done already be sure the pump is on a timer.
Thanks for the reminder, Sunchaser. I totally forgot about Fleetguard. I need to rejoin Boatdiesel and read up on this stuff before getting too far ahead of myself. (You know youíve got a bad case of boating disease when you ask for a large fuel filter for Christmas.)

The system is not currently on a timer, but I always time the transfer operation every morning with my iPhone.
angus99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2018, 02:38 PM   #5
Grand Vizier
 
Delfin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 3,398
Quote:
Originally Posted by angus99 View Post
Yes, I could start the genset or, depending on the amperage draw, use the inverter. 110 vac outlet/line is within 3 feet of the existing pump.


Then I would suggest you go to Grainger and get a 110vac motor and a carbonator pump head. You can get a size pump to fit whatever you want, flow wise. Mine moves 180 gph, quietly, and they basically last forever.

https://m.grainger.com/mobile/produc...fc=MWP2IDP2PCP

https://m.grainger.com/mobile/produc...!350484519767!
Delfin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2018, 03:09 PM   #6
Guru
 
cafesport's Avatar
 
City: Miami
Country: USA
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 597
When you say the racors load up, which racors are you referring to...polishing or primary engine? When they load up how do you spot it...vacuum reading, water sediment or performance. What is the composition of the material that loads the filter?
__________________
Via iOS.
cafesport is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2018, 03:42 PM   #7
TF Site Team
 
Pack Mule's Avatar
 
City: Paris,TN
Country: USA
Vessel Name: William
Vessel Model: Outer reef 32
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 3,270
Angus mine is homemade also but it’s really homemade . It has a 900 Racor and a 12 volt pump with a couple alligator clamps and a manual inline switch and about 15’ long hose .All of the tanks are plumbed to the racor . I hook the leads up to generator battery, open the valve from whatever tank I want to pull from and put the other end of the hose into the tank fill that I want the fuel to go into and then flip the switch. I think my pump is rated at 90 GPH but I could be wrong. I usually only transfer for about 10 to 15 minutes, of course I’m not ever traveling very far. I’m out of town till Sunday but I’ll check out the pump when I get back .
Oh yeah I forgot to say that it’s LOUD.
__________________
Marty
Pack Mule is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2018, 04:10 PM   #8
Guru
 
angus99's Avatar
 
City: Signal Mtn., TN
Country: US
Vessel Name: Stella Maris
Vessel Model: Defever 44
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,978
Quote:
Originally Posted by Delfin View Post
Then I would suggest you go to Grainger and get a 110vac motor and a carbonator pump head. You can get a size pump to fit whatever you want, flow wise. Mine moves 180 gph, quietly, and they basically last forever.

https://m.grainger.com/mobile/produc...fc=MWP2IDP2PCP

https://m.grainger.com/mobile/produc...!350484519767!
Thanks, Delfin. Iíll check them out. Iím also considering an entirely different setup after reading some of Tony Athensí stuff.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cafesport View Post
When you say the racors load up, which racors are you referring to...polishing or primary engine? When they load up how do you spot it...vacuum reading, water sediment or performance. What is the composition of the material that loads the filter?
The Racors are the ďprimariesĒ in our two-srage filtration system. Usually spot any problems via increased vacuum. Once or twice via performance as in stalling. The material looks like fines.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pack Mule View Post
Angus mine is homemade also but itís really homemade . It has a 900 Racor and a 12 volt pump with a couple alligator clamps and a manual inline switch and about 15í long hose .All of the tanks are plumbed to the racor . I hook the leads up to generator battery, open the valve from whatever tank I want to pull from and put the other end of the hose into the tank fill that I want the fuel to go into and then flip the switch. I think my pump is rated at 90 GPH but I could be wrong. I usually only transfer for about 10 to 15 minutes, of course Iím not ever traveling very far. Iím out of town till Sunday but Iíll check out the pump when I get back .
Oh yeah I forgot to say that itís LOUD.
Thanks, Pack Mule. I could probably get by with the pump Iíve got, but itís slow and ancient. Thought as long as Iím upgrading the filters . . .
angus99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2018, 04:30 PM   #9
TF Site Team
 
Insequent's Avatar
 
City: Brisbane
Country: Australia
Vessel Name: Insequent
Vessel Model: Ocean Alexander 50 Mk I
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 2,209
When I asked the yard to install a polisher they indicated that it would be cost effective to buy a Reverso. Parts for the system, plus their labour, would come out as a wash. Of course you can supply free labour, but it still might be worthwhile buying a polisher off the shelf.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Polisher sml.jpg
Views:	179
Size:	115.9 KB
ID:	82910  
__________________
Brian
Insequent is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2018, 06:25 PM   #10
Guru
 
City: Between Oregon and Alaska
Country: US
Vessel Name: Charlie Harper
Vessel Model: Wheeler Shipyard 83'
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 1,357
If you're using the right fuel conditioner, your tanks should remain clean and never get buildups. I have 900 Racors with 2 micron filters, and a filter lasts about 500 hours. I always use an additive when fueling and my tanks are clean, no debris, sludge or water.
My Detroit mains pump about 70 gallons and hour, so in 500 hours with a little generator use, the filter has seen about 40,000 gallons pass thru. That;'s 500 hours on a 2 micron filter.

If you're getting a buildup or short element life you either buy dirty fuel or don't use the right conditioner.
Lepke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2018, 06:56 PM   #11
Guru
 
angus99's Avatar
 
City: Signal Mtn., TN
Country: US
Vessel Name: Stella Maris
Vessel Model: Defever 44
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,978
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lepke View Post
If you're using the right fuel conditioner, your tanks should remain clean and never get buildups. I have 900 Racors with 2 micron filters, and a filter lasts about 500 hours. I always use an additive when fueling and my tanks are clean, no debris, sludge or water.
My Detroit mains pump about 70 gallons and hour, so in 500 hours with a little generator use, the filter has seen about 40,000 gallons pass thru. That;'s 500 hours on a 2 micron filter.

If you're getting a buildup or short element life you either buy dirty fuel or don't use the right conditioner.
I use Biobar JF and buy fuel from marinas with constant large-volume turnover. Ford Lehmanís use and return far less fuel than your Detroits so I donít get much benefit from engine filtration. I suspect the contamination in my saddle tanks came from the fuel sitting unused for a couple years while the boat was on the hard.
angus99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2018, 07:20 PM   #12
Guru
 
BruceK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 9,506
Ian,do your tanks have a drain low down? If so,you might be better draining any crud/water rather than polishing. I have screwplugs,I know Brisboy replaced those with gate valves so he could easily drain off the unwelcome.
__________________
BruceK
Island Gypsy 36 Europa "Doriana"
Sydney Australia
BruceK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2018, 09:09 PM   #13
Guru
 
AusCan's Avatar
 
City: Adelaide
Country: Australia
Vessel Name: Kokanee
Vessel Model: Cuddles 30 Pilot House Motor Sailer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,745
Yes - I agree Bruce. Drain points make a world of difference.
When I replaced my tanks I sloped the bottom to one corner and put a manual drain outlet on there. It also ties into a common site glass shared between the tanks. If any water settles out I immediately notice it in my sight glass and drain it.
My filters have yet to indicate any sign of fouling after almost 500 hours.
AusCan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2018, 10:53 PM   #14
Guru
 
angus99's Avatar
 
City: Signal Mtn., TN
Country: US
Vessel Name: Stella Maris
Vessel Model: Defever 44
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,978
Quote:
Originally Posted by BruceK View Post
Ian,do your tanks have a drain low down? If so,you might be better draining any crud/water rather than polishing. I have screwplugs,I know Brisboy replaced those with gate valves so he could easily drain off the unwelcome.
Good question, Bruce. The tanks all drain near (< 1 inch from) the bottom. By ďdrain,Ē I mean that is the outlet ball valve and piping to the fuel manifold. There is no separate drain to sluice off the unwelcome.
angus99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2018, 01:35 AM   #15
Guru
 
City: Between Oregon and Alaska
Country: US
Vessel Name: Charlie Harper
Vessel Model: Wheeler Shipyard 83'
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 1,357
Quote:
Originally Posted by angus99 View Post
Ford Lehmanís use and return far less fuel than your Detroits so I donít get much benefit from engine filtration. I suspect the contamination in my saddle tanks came from the fuel sitting unused for a couple years while the boat was on the hard.
Get a 12v pump that draws and returns fuel when you're running the engines and you can have the same turnover I have.
But my point was, somewhere around 40,000 gallons passes thru my 2 micron filter (5x smaller filtration than your 10 micron) without plugging the element. I have a hobby. While I don't stay at marinas, or buy fuel there, when I visit someone at one, I like to look at their fuel filters at their pumps. Sometimes they have a install date. Sometimes it's even in this century. Once the filter plugs it either tears the element or bypasses. Most marinas just have some kid pumping fuel and maintaining the filters.
Lepke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2018, 07:04 AM   #16
Guru
 
cafesport's Avatar
 
City: Miami
Country: USA
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 597
Fuel Transfer/Polishing System

Well it sounds like at least one of your filters is doing its job so now you can focus on the one that isnít. Btw your tank may have been clean at one time but now your primaries are telling a different story. Back to the transfer pump and filter, how old is the element, what is the rated flow rate of the pump and filter size.? Is the pump pushing the fuel through the filter or is it drawing it through? As Lepke said it may by loaded up and just bypassing the filter. Too much suction combined with age and the elements can collapse depositing all of their contents downstream. Pre-filtering into a day tank your primaries should last well over 500 hours but do change them annually if you donít reach that number in a year.
__________________
Via iOS.
cafesport is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2018, 07:38 AM   #17
Guru
 
angus99's Avatar
 
City: Signal Mtn., TN
Country: US
Vessel Name: Stella Maris
Vessel Model: Defever 44
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,978
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lepke View Post
Get a 12v pump that draws and returns fuel when you're running the engines and you can have the same turnover I have.
But my point was, somewhere around 40,000 gallons passes thru my 2 micron filter (5x smaller filtration than your 10 micron) without plugging the element. I have a hobby. While I don't stay at marinas, or buy fuel there, when I visit someone at one, I like to look at their fuel filters at their pumps. Sometimes they have a install date. Sometimes it's even in this century. Once the filter plugs it either tears the element or bypasses. Most marinas just have some kid pumping fuel and maintaining the filters.
I have a 12-volt pump that will move fuel between tanks through a “transfer filter.” I only use it to move fuel to the day tank each morning, which—if everything was working properly—should mean I have clean fuel for the day’s run. I initially asked about the pump because it’s old and slow.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cafesport View Post
Well it sounds like at least one of your filters is doing its job so now you can focus on the one that isn’t. Btw your tank may have been clean at one time but now your primaries are telling a different story. Back to the transfer pump and filter, how old is the element, what is the rated flow rate of the pump and filter size.? Is the pump pushing the fuel through the filter or is it drawing it through? As Lepke said it may by loaded up and just bypassing the filter. Too much suction combined with age and the elements can collapse depositing all of their contents downstream. Pre-filtering into a day tank your primaries should last well over 500 hours but do change them annually if you don’t reach that number in a year.
I’m sure you’re right that the saddle tanks have crud in them again—that’s my rationale for filtering fuel into the day tank each morning. The transfer filter is a joke and was my main reason for starting this thread. It’s an ancient canister of some sort that holds a partial roll of paper towels—I have no idea what element it’s supposed to hold. I’m sure it’s not doing much to filter fuel which has become contaminated. I was curious about opinions on the Gulf Coast F1 filter as a transfer filter and whether it’s worth the cost. So after starting to read Tony Athens’ articles on multi-stage filtration, I’m now thinking of using a Fleetguard as a transfer filter and adding a Fleetguard as a primary “mud filter” upstream of each Racor.
angus99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2018, 08:10 AM   #18
Guru
 
HiDHo's Avatar
 
City: Scottsboro, Al.
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Hi-D-Ho
Vessel Model: 1987 Krogen Manatee
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 940
Angus, I use a Gulf Coast filter to polish our fuel. The engine Racor never gets dirty enough to change, but I do change the element only because the filter composition should not be used indefinitely.
Pictured is my filter and the dirty element I changed recently after about 150 hours of polishing. I use a Walbro pump drawing from the bottom of the 280 gallon fuel tank discharging the polished fuel to the other side of the top of the stainless steel fuel tank.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	36CE1491-0901-431E-A51F-95D747BACC26.jpg
Views:	71
Size:	75.7 KB
ID:	82918   Click image for larger version

Name:	1FF3825B-76F7-44D8-9C8F-8891B9BABC2A.jpeg
Views:	63
Size:	192.5 KB
ID:	82919  
HiDHo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2018, 08:58 AM   #19
Guru
 
angus99's Avatar
 
City: Signal Mtn., TN
Country: US
Vessel Name: Stella Maris
Vessel Model: Defever 44
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,978
Quote:
Originally Posted by HiDHo View Post
Angus, I use a Gulf Coast filter to polish our fuel. The engine Racor never gets dirty enough to change, but I do change the element only because the filter composition should not be used indefinitely.
Pictured is my filter and the dirty element I changed recently after about 150 hours of polishing. I use a Walbro pump drawing from the bottom of the 280 gallon fuel tank discharging the polished fuel to the other side of the top of the stainless steel fuel tank.
Thanks, HiDHo. Do you happen to know the model # of the Walbro and are you happy with the transfer rate?

(As an aside, we used to run down to Scotsboro all the time from Chattanooga. My wifeís family had a farm on Skyline Mountain and her grandfather built one of the roads up that mountain.)
angus99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2018, 09:10 AM   #20
Guru
 
City: Carefree, Arizona
Country: usa
Vessel Name: sunchaser V
Vessel Model: DeFever 48
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,762
Quote:
The transfer filter is a joke and was my main reason for starting this thread. It’s an ancient canister of some sort that holds a partial roll of paper towels—I have no idea what element it’s supposed to hold. I’m sure it’s not doing much to filter fuel which has become contaminated. I was curious about opinions on the Gulf Coast F1 filter as a transfer filter and whether it’s worth the cost. So after starting to read Tony Athens’ articles on multi-stage filtration, I’m now thinking of using a Fleetguard as a transfer filter and adding a Fleetguard as a primary “mud filter” upstream of each Racor.
Now you're talking!

Tony's marine setup is fail safe as best I can see and mimics off highway use as well whether around tank farms or on field fuel trucks The paper towels will do you no good as compared to a commercial filter and may well be adding to the problem by doing their intended- disintegrating. TP degrades even faster.
__________________

sunchaser is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:22 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012