Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 11-14-2018, 11:29 AM   #1
DDW
Guru
 
City: San Francisco
Country: USA
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 860
Fuel polishing in Victoria

I'd like to get the tanks cleaned and fuel polished, boat is in Sidney BC. This is preventative maintenance, rather than a problem, but hasn't been done in 10 years or so to my knowledge.

There are two companies that show up on a google search, Optifuel and FuelFiltration. Any opinions on them, or others on Van Isle that I should look to?
__________________
Advertisement

DDW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2018, 01:27 PM   #2
Guru
 
City: Carefree, Arizona
Country: usa
Vessel Name: sunchaser V
Vessel Model: DeFever 48
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 8,020
Quote:
Originally Posted by DDW View Post
I'd like to get the tanks cleaned and fuel polished, boat is in Sidney BC. This is preventative maintenance, rather than a problem, but hasn't been done in 10 years or so to my knowledge.

There are two companies that show up on a google search, Optifuel and FuelFiltration. Any opinions on them, or others on Van Isle that I should look to?
Optifuel's website looks pretty good. Do you have a trusted yard in BC that could comment on them? I'll query as well.

Can you transfer fuel between tanks to get each empty enough to use camera to see what if any buildup you have? Or if tank fills are vertical use a dip tube to see what lurks?
__________________

sunchaser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2018, 01:43 PM   #3
DDW
Guru
 
City: San Francisco
Country: USA
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 860
I can transfer between tanks, and left them with only 50 gallons in each for that purpose. There are inspection ports at both ends of the long tanks with limited access, but several baffles in the way. I could get an idea from a camera inspection but wouldn't be able to see the whole bottom. I will check with yards in Canada, but my hit/miss rate with local recommendations has been no better than 50%.
DDW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2018, 04:18 PM   #4
DDW
Guru
 
City: San Francisco
Country: USA
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 860
Hmm, both of those companies are out of the business. Anyone else in Victoria/Sidney?
DDW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2018, 04:24 PM   #5
Guru
 
dhays's Avatar
 
City: Gig Harbor
Country: United States
Vessel Name: Kinship
Vessel Model: North Pacific 43
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 8,419
If your filters are staying clean and you haven't been exposed to dirty/wet fuel, I would wonder if it is worth the trouble and expense?
__________________
Regards,

Dave
SPOT page
dhays is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2018, 05:09 PM   #6
TF Site Team
 
Larry M's Avatar
 
City: JAX, FL
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Hobo
Vessel Model: Krogen 42-120
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 7,796
Call the the home heating/ major diesel fuel dealers. Home owners sometimes have the same issues.
Larry M is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2018, 06:33 PM   #7
Senior Member
 
City: Saanich BC
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Therapi
Vessel Model: 1998 Bayliner 4087
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 156
Check out Canoe Cove or Philbroorks or Great White Marine (greatwhitemarine@gmail.com)
Cyclone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2018, 08:18 PM   #8
DDW
Guru
 
City: San Francisco
Country: USA
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 860
Quote:
Originally Posted by dhays View Post
If your filters are staying clean and you haven't been exposed to dirty/wet fuel, I would wonder if it is worth the trouble and expense?
I think I am paranoid. Coming from a lifetime in sailboats (and sailplanes!) I've always considered a motor out to be no more than an inconvenience. Even so, I designed the sailboat tanks such that they can be very easily cleaned, or even removed. This AT34, not so much. It is helpless if the main engine stops, the tanks were installed prior to the deck going on and the deck would have to come off to access them. There's no obvious problem, a bit of sediment showed up in the fuel filter bowl on our 600 mile shakedown jaunt. The tanks haven't been opened or cleaned for a long time, going to Alaska next year and don't want an unscheduled stoppage. That's all.
DDW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2018, 12:10 AM   #9
Guru
 
dhays's Avatar
 
City: Gig Harbor
Country: United States
Vessel Name: Kinship
Vessel Model: North Pacific 43
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 8,419
I understand DDW and there is nothing wrong with being prudent. If it was me, Iíd likely just put a few more filters in my stores and check the vacuum gauge as part of a pre-start check. However, I donít tend to worry much. I may just be too cavalier.
__________________
Regards,

Dave
SPOT page
dhays is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2018, 05:12 PM   #10
Guru
 
JDCAVE's Avatar
 
City: Lions Bay, BC
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Phoenix Hunter
Vessel Model: Kadey Krogen 42 (1985)
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 2,223
Fuel polishing in Victoria

Quote:
Originally Posted by DDW View Post
I'd like to get the tanks cleaned and fuel polished, boat is in Sidney BC. This is preventative maintenance, rather than a problem, but hasn't been done in 10 years or so to my knowledge.

There are two companies that show up on a google search, Optifuel and FuelFiltration. Any opinions on them, or others on Van Isle that I should look to?
And...

Quote:
Originally Posted by DDW View Post
I think I am paranoid....

Yes. I was too. Do you have access ports to your tanks? Can you move enough fuel around to empty a tank? If yes to both those questions, check them yourself. I did and decided they were fine.

I phoned an outfit in the lower mainland (Vancouver area) and was quoted about $3,200 Cdn. For that money I decided Iíd tackle the job myself. 2 hours later, Iíd buttoned the fuel port back on and was satisfied that I didnít need to do anything more than that. I put a thread up on Trawler Forum somewhere.

Edit: Here...
Cleaning fuel tanks.


Jim
JDCAVE is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2018, 06:23 PM   #11
Guru
 
OldDan1943's Avatar
 
City: Aventura FL
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Kinja
Vessel Model: American Tug 34 #116
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 3,863
$3,200 Can? For that kind of money, you can buy a fuel polishing system and permanently install it on your boat.
__________________
Did Noah have a get home-engine?
OldDan1943 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2018, 06:30 PM   #12
DDW
Guru
 
City: San Francisco
Country: USA
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 860
I did get in contact with Fueltration, they sounded competent and I have a recommendation for them from another yard. The quote for two tanks was $3300 - 3600 Cdn, + 10% for filter and disposal costs, + GST.

Like you, I think I'm going to open one and have a look before I commit to that, as I don't know if they need it. I'd tackle it myself it the boat where closer to home. Assembling the gear, then storing it would be difficult. Reading the other thread, there were several descriptions of DYI efforts, but no one said what they did with the dirty water used to rinse the tanks. You can't dump it overboard anywhere in N.A.

It isn't clear that a fuel polishing system accomplishes the same thing, or anything on this boat. It already pumps 50 gallons an hour through the engine filters when running, that theoretically turns the (full) tanks in 8 hours. But stuff settles.
DDW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2018, 06:49 PM   #13
Guru
 
OldDan1943's Avatar
 
City: Aventura FL
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Kinja
Vessel Model: American Tug 34 #116
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 3,863
If you tie the input to the fuel polisher to the same line that feeds the Racor filters, when at the dock or on the hook, you can polish the fuel and return to the same tank and or polish the fuel while transferring the fuel to another tank or polish the fuel in one tank while traveling on the second tank.
__________________
Did Noah have a get home-engine?
OldDan1943 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2018, 06:53 PM   #14
DDW
Guru
 
City: San Francisco
Country: USA
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 860
What does that accomplish that the normal flow of fuel does not? In our boats (yeah I got one just like yours!) the engine pumps 50 gallons an hour and returns about 48 of that to the tank.
DDW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2018, 07:13 PM   #15
Guru
 
OldDan1943's Avatar
 
City: Aventura FL
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Kinja
Vessel Model: American Tug 34 #116
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 3,863
DDW, if your reference is to me and have an AT34, with a polishing system, you will have filtered the fuel and removed the water before it gets the the Racor.
You do not want your Cummins to stop because you have to change the filter. You could be transiting a cut and if the motor stops midway, it could be embarrassing, at least.
__________________
Did Noah have a get home-engine?
OldDan1943 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2018, 04:21 PM   #16
Guru
 
dhays's Avatar
 
City: Gig Harbor
Country: United States
Vessel Name: Kinship
Vessel Model: North Pacific 43
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 8,419
Dan, I think DDW was saying that he fuel is already being filtered a lot. Just by running the engine, his primary and secondary filters are filtering 50 gallons/hr. That keeps the fuel clean, but his concern is with how clean the tank is. Crud could have precipitated out and settled to the bottom of the tank even if the fuel above it is being actively filtered.


DDW is thinking about cleaning the tank, not necessarily about how to keep the fuel filtered.


Again, I wouldn't worry about it unless he notices a problem with his filters getting clogged up. I have access to good fuel, so my boat is 8 years old but I have yet to see any vacuum increase on my filters.
__________________
Regards,

Dave
SPOT page
dhays is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2018, 01:08 PM   #17
Member
 
Waterant's Avatar
 
City: Maple
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: DORA
Vessel Model: 1987 Defever 41
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 20
Hi guys,

I just want to add my 2c. We discussed this issue on Defever forum a few weeks ago and I did a lot of research on the subject because we have the same issue with preparing for a long trip on a "new to us" boat where tanks were not cleaned properly in a couple of decades.

The main point is this:

Just polishing the fuel without opening the tanks and cleaning them with a powerwash or any other physical interaction with the dirt on the bottom will be a waste of money.

I found 3 options:

1) Pump out all the fuel, open up and clean the tanks with a power washer and some manual love.
After that, this fuel can be polished and pumped back or discarded and new fuel added. My problems with this method: this is a temporary solution, time-consuming and not really an option if there are no good access ports on the tanks to get behind all the baffles.

2) Add a day tank (or use one of the existing tanks as a day tank but clean it like you mean it first), take fuel to the engine and generator only from this day tank and pump the fuel to this tank every morning via a large fuel filter like F-1 Gulf Coast Filter (I think it's using paper towel roles as filtration element so it's super cheap to maintain). Some people even use an automatic fuel transfer pump which does that when day tank level is low but it might be an overkill.

3) Screw the cleaning and day tank and keep an eye on Racor dual filter to switch to the second filter as soon as pressure starts to build up (current running filter gets dirty). This was done by a guy I talked to who had his fuel polished for a couple of boat dollars without actually cleaning the tanks and he was switching and changing Racor filters every other day when running in the high seas.

Hope this helps.
Waterant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2018, 01:40 PM   #18
Guru
 
City: Carefree, Arizona
Country: usa
Vessel Name: sunchaser V
Vessel Model: DeFever 48
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 8,020
H2O Ant
Have you dipped your tanks to ascertain tank buildup, if any? Also, old tanks can be surprisingly clean if fuel turned over a lot. New tanks with low turnover can crud up in a few years.

Suggest you read Tony Athen's diesel fuel cleaning and filtering website? It may save you a lot of unnecessary work. Call it option 4.
sunchaser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2018, 02:21 PM   #19
Member
 
Waterant's Avatar
 
City: Maple
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: DORA
Vessel Model: 1987 Defever 41
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunchaser View Post
Have you dipped your tanks to ascertain tank buildup, if any? Also, old tanks can be surprisingly clean if fuel turned over a lot. New tanks with low turnover can crud up in a few years.
I plan to do this the next time I'm on the boat. Hopefully, this is the case with those tanks because they are fiberglass and, as I was told, do not have adequate inspection ports.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sunchaser View Post
Suggest you read Tony Athen's diesel fuel cleaning and filtering website? It may save you a lot of unnecessary work. Call it option 4.
From what I found on sbmar.com, it's all about keeping the fuel and the tanks cleaned longer (some great info there by the way, thanks) but this does not solve the problem with already dirty tanks.

OP asked about fuel polishing companies, and my point is, polishing without proper tanks cleaning will be a waste. From what I read in other posts, unless you get in there and clean the tanks yourself, those companies do a very poor job at actually cleaning the tanks and those wasted $ are better to be spent on a good filtration system (like ones sbmar.com offers). I guess we can call option 4: Multi-stage filtration.

By the way, one guy cleaned the tanks with a cleaner (probably some degreaser):

Cleaning fuel tanks.
post from FF
Quote:
He drained the tank and added 5 gallons of HD cleaner from a box store. He let it soak a couple of days and blew compressed air from a small pump to make bubbles every so often.

He then used more water from a hose to agitate the tank, and finally pumped it empty , rinsing with the water hose a couple of times.

After emptying ,no problems from plugged filters from then on , was the claim.
Waterant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2018, 05:18 PM   #20
JP2
Veteran Member
 
City: Gig Harbor, WA
Country: USA
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 28
Will this anecdotal be of help?? We bought the GB at 13 years old and found nothing in the logs on tank inspections or cleaning. Some minor indicators from the stbrd. tank made me suspicious, so we called in a service and they pumped and polished it all and examined both cast iron tanks while I was there. Nothing whatsoever out of normal order: not sludgy, dirty or rusty. Replaced all the fasteners in the inspection ports, pumped the fuel back in, and we were done. DID NOT need to do it and all has been running fine since. We use double Racors for both engines using 2 micron filters for everyday and the reserve filter 10 mics. We change the 2 mics every 150 to 250 hours max.. (Rarely change the 10's!) Vacuum guages show zero to 2, depending "needle jiggle". Engine mounted filters on these 6BTA's are 2 or 5 mics, from what I have been told, but not sure about that. They are changed only annually. As with everyone, have been in more rough seas than one cares to remember (offshore, Alaska, etc..); no rough running engines or shutdowns - ever.

We also have quarter turn ball valves at the bottom sumps of both tanks and connecting to the delivery lines, which I think is the best monitor of all. Put a blank tee in and take a sample whenever desired and see what has actually settled in there. Very small distance between the fitting and the bottom of the sump, so if anything collects, one should see it in a sample. Finally, our annual usage varies from 250 to 350 hours per year. Such fuel turnover is painful to the wallet, but I believe it is good for the tanks, especially if using reliably good fuel sources. For iron tanks, using a magnet on the Racor bowl to look for metal fines is also a good periodic check. FWIW.
__________________

JP2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:16 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012
×