Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 02-17-2011, 12:23 PM   #41
Scraping Paint
 
City: Fort Lauderdale
Vessel Model: CHB 48 Zodiac YL 4.2
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,804
RE: Fuel polishing during layup periods.

Quote:
GonzoF1 wrote:I am a little bummed that the same people that vigorously encouraged me and my efforts (greatly appreciated BTW), neglected to really inform me that polishing is not needed (in their opinion).
While I understand your feelings about that please consider that you had already made*the choice to fabricate a polishing system and didn't need anyone's permission or blessing to do it.

Like I wrote someplace else recently about this, if you had asked if it was wise or worthwhile you might have had other responses. Mine would have been exactly what I have posted recently on other threads.

Once you got pretty far along and it looked like the design might benefit from another viewpoint I threw in my 2 cents worth of ideas on how*I would do it if it was my project. It was not my place to tell you to stop because I think it is not worth it, and you didn't ask for anyone to tell you if you should continue. you asked for advice and assistance with the layout, and like many other projects I get involved*with on other boats, I showed what I might do if it were mine given the cost and space constraints you are working with.

I don't think your fuel will benefit a great deal but I know you will/did and that is good enough as far as I am concerned. For that alone the project was worth supporting, in my opinion.
__________________
Advertisement

RickB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2011, 12:43 PM   #42
Master and Commander
 
markpierce's Avatar
 
City: Vallejo CA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Carquinez Coot
Vessel Model: 2011 Seahorse Marine Coot hull #6
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 10,265
Fuel polishing during layup periods.

JohnP and Tom, don't beat yourselves up.* Opinions on the value of a fuel polishing system*aren't unamonous.* Even though my builder didn't think one was necessary, for better or worse I had one installed.




-- Edited by markpierce on Thursday 17th of February 2011 01:46:03 PM
__________________

markpierce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2011, 01:01 PM   #43
Guru
 
Codger2's Avatar
 
City: San Diego
Country: US
Vessel Name: "Sandpiper"
Vessel Model: 2006 42' Ocean Alexander Sedan
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 5,421
RE: Fuel polishing during layup periods.

Quote:
Delfin wrote:Walt, as with most absolutes, I'm not sure it's always true that fuel polishing systems on boats are a waste.
__________________________________________________ _____________
Your points are valid.

I was referring to "my boat" which is a single diesel and only holds 200 gallons. With a cummins 330B in it, it sure doesn't take long to run through 200 gals. Not to mention that when the engine is running, I've returned more fuel to the tanks that the engine is actually using. (In effect, I'm polishing that fuel.) I was remiss in inferring that* polishing is not needed on all boats. If I had a boat such as yours, with the capacity that you have, I would, indeed, have a polishing set up. I had 1300 gallon capacity on my sport fisher and did not have fuel polishing on board and got along just fine with no problems at all. On that boat, however, the fuel never sat in the tanks for many months or years at a time as I was on the circuit and burned it at an alarming rate.

I retract my statement, as it is presently written. A fuel polishing requirement really depends on the points you have illustrated.
Codger2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2011, 01:14 PM   #44
Master and Commander
 
markpierce's Avatar
 
City: Vallejo CA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Carquinez Coot
Vessel Model: 2011 Seahorse Marine Coot hull #6
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 10,265
RE: Fuel polishing during layup periods.

In my boat it could take something like 400 hours or more*to consume the fuel, and I've heard that the Deere 4045 engine doesn't*recirculate a whole lot of fuel back to the tank.* Thus, a polishing system sounded good to me.* Experience will tell.
markpierce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2011, 02:16 PM   #45
Per
Guru
 
Per's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 613
RE: Fuel polishing during layup periods.

so i am gonna take this thread to the next logic step.
fuel filters seem to play a vital part of this discussion.

is there anything to loose or gain by using fuel filters with higher degree of filtration than required by manufacturer (in my case Cats)?
Per is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2011, 02:28 PM   #46
Guru
 
skipperdude's Avatar
 
City: Whittier AK
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Apache II
Vessel Model: 1974 Donald Jones
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,147
RE: Fuel polishing during layup periods.

The cat should have a 2 micron on the engine and you probably has a 30 micron on your Racor.*

SD
skipperdude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2011, 06:34 PM   #47
Grand Vizier
 
Delfin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,497
RE: Fuel polishing during layup periods.

One of the points missed in this discussion is the fact that when a filter says it is a 2 micron filter, regardless of whether it is a secondary or primary filter, that doesn't mean that any particle greater than 2 microns will be stopped.* Filters earn their ratings based on the percentage of particles that small they can trap.* In other words, unless fuel is circulated multiple times through a filter of a given rating, particles larger than that rating will get through.* This is one of the arguments for polishing - repeated passes through the filter gets most of the stuff that exceeds the rating of the filter, but not one pass.* So, if you have a day tank, vigorous return flow will help, but you'll still have particles in the fuel that exceed the filtration capacity of the filters reaching the injectors.*

So Gonzo, I wouldn't worry too much about the fact that some argue for polishing, and make equipment recommendations to accomplish it, then argue against it in another post.* Those posts are about making a point and being argumentative, and not much else.

As noted, whether you need polishing or not is a function of a number of variables.* You probably need it less than another boat with more tankage, but it sure as heck isn't going to hurt anything, and you're having fun putting it together.
Delfin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2011, 06:46 PM   #48
Guru
 
City: Carefree, Arizona
Country: usa
Vessel Name: sunchaser V
Vessel Model: DeFever 48
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 6,372
RE: Fuel polishing during layup periods.

Delfin

I believe you are referring to the Beta Number. If a filter has a beta of 0.8 for a given size say 2 micron, that means it traps 80% of the particles of 2u or smaller when new.
sunchaser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2011, 07:04 PM   #49
Grand Vizier
 
Delfin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,497
RE: Fuel polishing during layup periods.

Tom, that rings a bell.* I also vaguely recall that the efficiency of the filter goes up as it is used until the point it ceases to pass required flow.* Is that your understanding?
Delfin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2011, 07:13 PM   #50
Scraping Paint
 
City: Fort Lauderdale
Vessel Model: CHB 48 Zodiac YL 4.2
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,804
RE: Fuel polishing during layup periods.

Quote:
Delfin wrote:I wouldn't worry too much about the fact that some argue for polishing, and make equipment recommendations to accomplish it, then argue against it in another post.* Those posts are about making a point and being argumentative, and not much else.
Delphin, it doesn't surprise me that you can't tell the difference. Someone asked for advice and help with assembling a filter system. I don't have to believe in the reason he wanted a filter to offer assistance.

It is people like you and your and your bitter hatred for things you can't understand that make it not worth the effort to even read the posts, much less contribute in this forum ... I am beginning to understand why better people than I have bailed.

*
RickB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2011, 07:50 PM   #51
Grand Vizier
 
Delfin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,497
RE: Fuel polishing during layup periods.

Quote:
RickB wrote:
It is people like you and your and your bitter hatred for things you can't understand that make it not worth the effort to even read the posts, much less contribute in this forum
Rick, just because someone disagrees with you occasionally doesn't mean they harbor hatred.* You responded to my posting a picture of a pre-filter showing what had been removed from my fuel to be pointless and said so, and assumed incorrectly that the cause was heating.* I didn't conclude you were harboring hatred as a result of your point of view, even though incorrect, but if you feel that I express ill will against you when I have a different perspective, then again, I apologize.*

I hope you do keep posting as many of us learn from your experience when it's applicable.* If the terms of your participation is that you are never disagreed with, then I for one, won't cross that line again, since your input is frequently valuable.

*
Delfin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2011, 02:19 AM   #52
Master and Commander
 
markpierce's Avatar
 
City: Vallejo CA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Carquinez Coot
Vessel Model: 2011 Seahorse Marine Coot hull #6
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 10,265
RE: Fuel polishing during layup periods.

Geewiz Rick, you can "dish it out" but can't "take it"?* Hopefully not.* I'm still here despite your barbs.* You're surely as much of a man as I.
markpierce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2011, 04:27 AM   #53
Guru
 
Sailor of Fortune's Avatar
 
City: Saint Augustine, Fl.
Country: Port of St Augustine ,FL
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,969
RE: Fuel polishing during layup periods.

Rick- Lighten lighten up dude! nobody is attacking you personnally. We are all here for entertainment and learning purposes. You provide excellent engineering insights and ideas to the forum. Don't feel like anyone is on the offensive if they don't agree with you. All of the members have varying degrees of boating and engineering skills. What most of us hope to take away is additional knowledge of the ships systems and operations.
Sailor of Fortune is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2011, 04:45 AM   #54
Scraping Paint
 
City: Fort Lauderdale
Vessel Model: CHB 48 Zodiac YL 4.2
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,804
RE: Fuel polishing during layup periods.

Quote:
Sailor of Fortune wrote:Rick- Lighten lighten up dude! nobody is attacking you personnally.
Out of respect for a fellow mariner I will try and explain the issue as I see it.

I can hold my own against the best any* industry professional has to offer in any discussion relative to marine engineering or yacht operations. I have had my mind changed in the past and will in the near future by those who know more than I. That is how I learn and what makes my job so rewarding.

What I have a big problem with is when I take the time to help a hobbyist with a project, even a project I would not personally take on for any number of reasons, then have that assistance thrown back in my face as a reason that past advice or information about some subject is invalid or discredited.

Tell me why I should waste my time "giving back" anything? I know the particular individual who finally brought this to the edge has other agendas, a give and take on technical or procedural topics not being his reason for posting.

I am unmerciful when someone posts* nonsense (particularly dangerous nonsense) and am very ready to state why I know it to be and nearly always provide links to external sources to prove my point. I have little time for fools or poseurs and generally choose to ignore them. But when honest and innocent assistance to a forum member who specifically requested it is used as a weapon in an attempt to discredit me, it reminds me I have better things to do with my spare time than expose myself to that kind of mindless and stingy abuse.





*
RickB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2011, 05:10 AM   #55
Guru
 
Tom.B's Avatar
 
City: Cary, NC
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Skinny Dippin'
Vessel Model: Navigator 4200 Classic
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 5,154
RE: Fuel polishing during layup periods.

I wish I had never brought it up. This is intolerable.
Tom.B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2011, 06:43 AM   #56
Guru
 
jleonard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,740
RE: Fuel polishing during layup periods.

My next door neighbor kids are 12 year old fraternal twins.
They are awsum kids, respectful, polite, smart, active.
When they are together they fight like cats and dogs.
Not sure why I thought of that right now
jleonard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2011, 09:03 AM   #57
Guru
 
Codger2's Avatar
 
City: San Diego
Country: US
Vessel Name: "Sandpiper"
Vessel Model: 2006 42' Ocean Alexander Sedan
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 5,421
RE: Fuel polishing during layup periods.

Rick:
Have you noticed that I'm staying out of this?
(Water off a duck's back and all.)
Codger2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2011, 11:52 AM   #58
Guru
 
Carey's Avatar
 
City: Bellingham, WA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Happy Destiny
Vessel Model: Custom Lobster Yacht
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,101
RE: Fuel polishing during layup periods.

"To be absolutely certain about something, one must know everything or nothing about it."
Olin Miller


Food for thought!
Carey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2011, 02:06 PM   #59
Senior Member
 
ralphyost's Avatar
 
City: Cape Coral FL
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Say GoodBye
Vessel Model: 21 Mako
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 261
RE: Fuel polishing during layup periods.

Carey
As a corrollary to your post -

As a young engineer, I realized that not all of the engineers I was working with were equal in technical prowess. As a result, I printed off these words I coined back in 1981 -

"Anything is possible if you dont know what you are talking about"


R.
ralphyost is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2011, 11:16 PM   #60
Master and Commander
 
markpierce's Avatar
 
City: Vallejo CA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Carquinez Coot
Vessel Model: 2011 Seahorse Marine Coot hull #6
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 10,265
RE: Fuel polishing during layup periods.

There are filters, and then there are filters.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	10.jpg
Views:	38
Size:	40.7 KB
ID:	5030  
__________________

markpierce is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Fuel Polishing - Revisited Tony B Power Systems 4 08-11-2011 06:35 PM
Fuel Polishing system anyone build one? Third Degree Power Systems 23 06-28-2011 11:19 AM
Fuel Polishing FF Power Systems 84 01-26-2011 11:55 AM
Fuel Polishing marinetrader Power Systems 5 04-11-2010 12:25 PM
Fuel Polishing marinetrader Power Systems 11 07-31-2008 03:21 PM




All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:09 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012