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Old 01-11-2011, 08:04 PM   #21
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RE: Fuel Polishing

Quote:
RickB wrote:

Geez P/F, if you can't read a drawing how can you expect to provide one for someone else?

How's the charter business going?
RickB I can read drawing just fine.* However thank you for you ill mannered way of pointing out the GFC JR is a filter.* *The symbol use for filters changed .* I read engine draws every day as we mfg paper/pulp/saw mill equipment mfg to engineering drawings.*


*
My fuel polishing system use on set of double 1000 Racorrather than multiple filters which makes it simpler and less costly.**If you have filters*what is*need is an electric fuel pump.**A fuel polishing system is not that complicated and costly.


*
And what does chartering 5+ years ago have to do with a polishing system.* Get over it and its old. *

*
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Old 01-11-2011, 08:22 PM   #22
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RE: Fuel Polishing

Meanwhile, having fun and exchanging useful/entertaining information ...
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Old 01-11-2011, 08:43 PM   #23
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Fuel Polishing

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markpierce wrote:

I'm concerned that movements of the boat created by the water's waves will disturb that "stuff" and not the mere sucking of the fuel line.

*
Mark--- You've got brand new tanks.* It sounds like you'll be using your boat a fair amount.* I suspect the fuel you'll be buying in the Bay area will be good fuel just like it is up here.* From everything I have heard and been told, your chances of building up the kind of crud that shakes loose on a rough day and clogs your filters are about zero at this point.

None of the boaters I know personally up here-- new or old---*have polishing systems on their boats.* And none of them have had fuel problems that I know of.* Our boat had new tanks installed the year before we bought it.* That was a bit over thirteen years ago.* We have never had the fuel polished.* We have a Mickey Mouse-sort of polishing system on the boat but we never use it nor did the owner who had it installed.* Our tanks feed from the lowest point in the tanks.* In the twelve years we've had the boat we've never had any dirt or water in the filter bowls.* We've been through some pretty rough stuff in the Strait of Georgia and the engines never hiccupped.

If having a polishing system on board gives you peace of mind, have at it.* That's a valid reason to do anything.* But my opinion is that if there is any boat on this forum that WON'T need a polishing system it's yours.* At least*until you reach the point where you leave it unused and totally neglected for a couple of years.

-- Edited by Marin on Tuesday 11th of January 2011 09:44:36 PM
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Old 01-11-2011, 08:57 PM   #24
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RE: Fuel Polishing

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Marin wrote:

...*From everything I have heard and been told, your chances of building up the kind of crud that shakes loose on a rough day and clogs your filters are about zero at this point.

If having a polishing system on board gives you peace of mind, have at it.*
Marin, I appreciate your comments.* But I doubt I'll consume the boat's 390*gallons of*fuel within a year's time,*years will pass, and the peace of mind is worth a thousand or so $.* Besides,*a polishing system*gives me more valves to play with.

*
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Old 01-11-2011, 09:30 PM   #25
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RE: Fuel Polishing

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markpierce wrote:

*But I doubt I'll consume the boat's 390*gallons of*fuel within a year's time....*
Nothing says you have to fill the boat all the way up all the time.** We don't.* We always have two 85 gallon saddle tanks empty, we transfer to the day tank from the other two 85 gallon tanks until they're almost empty, then we fill the two empty saddle tanks, drain the first two dry, and then let them sit empty until we've drawn down the second pair.

That way fuel isn't sitting around on the boat all that long.* When we go on a longer trip we'll top off all the tanks but then we start managing the fuel as I described.

*
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Old 01-11-2011, 11:13 PM   #26
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RE: Fuel Polishing

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Nothing says you have to fill the boat all the way up all the time.**

True, but empty space in a tank provides more opportunity for condensation of water in the tank.* Food (fuel) and water is all that gunk-creating bacteria need.

*
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Old 01-11-2011, 11:45 PM   #27
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RE: Fuel Polishing

Quote:
Phil Fill wrote:


Mark , if you change the design around a bit you only need one set of Racors, the filters should be before the pump to protect it and the fuel pump can prime the engines.*
Phil, I've asked the builder about the possibility (and expense)*of putting a Racor filter before the filter in the fuel-polishing circuit.* Thanks!

*
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Old 01-12-2011, 12:00 AM   #28
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Fuel Polishing

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markpierce wrote:

OK, OK.* Decided today to have a fuel polishing system installed on my Coot.* That with dual Racor filters will hopefully avoid most fuel-quality problems.* * (Geez, how many valves will there be in the engine room?* They better be well-labeled!)


(Ignore the genset.* I'm not having one.)
I've examined the above schematic more closely now.* While I'm an ignoramus regarding this subject,*it seems*the above system permits filtering fuel (1) through the polishing system while at the same time the engine get its fuel independently and (2) passing through the polishing on its way to*an operating*engine.* Also, while not underway,**fuel polishing can be done without the engine running.* Is this correct?* Is it a good or bad idea to have the polishing system operating while (a) it is running independent of fuel going to the engine*or (b) it is providing fuel to the engine?* Would the pump be used whenever the polishing system is used?

*


-- Edited by markpierce on Wednesday 12th of January 2011 01:08:00 AM
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Old 01-12-2011, 12:59 AM   #29
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Fuel Polishing

Quote:
markpierce wrote:

*
Marin wrote:

Nothing says you have to fill the boat all the way up all the time.

*
True, but empty space in a tank provides more opportunity for condensation of water in the tank.* Food (fuel) and water is all that gunk-creating bacteria need.

That's a very controversial topic.* I've read as many statements (by credible people) that condensation is not the bugaboo a lot of people assume it is as statements by equally credible people who say it is.* It's been discussed many times over the years on the GB forum, for example, and the proponents of condensation in fuel tanks are about equal in number to the people who say it's an overblown problem.

Our tanks are almost never all the way full.* And two of them are usually completely empty at any given time.* We have never seen a trace of water in our filter bowls in twelve years of owning the boat.

I don't come down on the side of the condensation theory being bogus because we ALWAYS got water in the fuel tanks of the planes I flew in Hawaii, even after only one night.* So I have no idea or theory why we don't ever get any water in our empty or partially full tanks on the boat but we don't.** And we're not alone--- most people I've talked to about this up here have related the same experience.

As the Moscow fire chief said when asked about the cause of the big fire in the city's famous television tower, "Is big mystery."

*


-- Edited by Marin on Wednesday 12th of January 2011 02:03:26 AM
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Old 01-12-2011, 04:31 AM   #30
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RE: Fuel Polishing

"None of the boaters I know personally up here-- new or old--- have polishing systems on their boats."

EVERY Detroit Diesel boat owner you know has a built in polishing system , pulls 35GPH , returns

10 to 32gph , so the FUEL gets clean.

The problems come when folks confuse cleaned fuel with a clean tank.

No amount of fuel cleaning will fix a gunkey tank.

ONLY a scraper cleans a bad tank.
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Old 01-12-2011, 06:27 AM   #31
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RE: Fuel Polishing

"EVERY Detroit Diesel boat owner you know has a built in polishing system , pulls 35GPH , returns

10 to 32gph , so the FUEL gets clean.

The problems come when folks confuse cleaned fuel with a clean tank"

True. When I had my Mainship with the OEM Perkins my fuel was always cruddy looking and I had to drain out the bowl crud every 15 running hours or so. The Perkins returns very little fuel, similar to a Lehman.
When I repowered with the Cummins 6BTA which circulates 45 GPH at cruise rpm, my fuel went to "pristine" after 3 weekend trips.
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Old 01-12-2011, 10:49 AM   #32
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RE: Fuel Polishing

Quote:
markpierce wrote:


Pineapple Girl wrote:

Mark will you have an inverter?* We got a little one that plugs into a 12v socket and we can run our computer or TV off it.* We have a 4kw genset that we used at Angel Island (three nights over Thanksgiving) to run the stove*and charge the batteries.*
Eight KW toroidal isolation transformer.
Dual 24 volt 200AH AGM house batteries.
Shore power system with CB protection.
Shore power volt meter.
24 volt inverter/charger.

There is also 120-volt AC wiring and sockets.

I'm not sure what all that means, but I expect to be able to charge the batteries and run a small electric heater when plugged in at a marina.

I don't know what all that means either but it sure sounds cool! **
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Old 01-13-2011, 08:23 AM   #33
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RE: Fuel Polishing

It appears by*your drawing that the engine and gen can run with or with out the fuel pump running.* The Webro fuel pump I have allows fuel to passes though even if not running as fuel can pass though it.* I used only one double 1000 Racor filter instead of several filters and only the fuel pump has a divert valve.* I bought the one set of 1000 Racor as they are over capacity and only one filter to mess with.
*
If you use three manifold, draw, distribute and return, it would reduce the number of valves and make it simpler to change as the valves are altogether.* My three manifolds* are mounted on a 4 X 2 plywood on the side of the port tank.** I made the manifolds out of copper pipe fittings and marine valves.* The electric fuel pump can be used to prime the fuel line before starting, which seems to help and of course to bleed and change filters.***
*
I would have a fuel polishing capability on a new or used but you never know when you might take on some bad fuel or take on the bottom of a dirty fuel tank.* Cant hurt to have one but it can hurt if you dont have one.** The DD 671 polishes the fuel as it pulls about 55+ gallons, used 5 gallons and return 50 gallons.* However, we do not leave the dock much, so I polishing the fuel.

If*anybody wants a copy*of my polishing system diagream send me your email.
*
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Old 01-13-2011, 09:02 AM   #34
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RE: Fuel Polishing

Quote:
Phil Fill wrote:The Webro fuel pump I have
Phil, which model Walbro do you have?* I wasn't able to find one that matches the necessary minimum flow rate for a Racor 1000, which won't work as well without that flow.* In Coot's design, he's using a 40 gph filter from Gulf, which is more expensive than need be and wouldn't be my first choice for other reasons, but the Walbro will theoretically handle that, depending on how high the pump is above the fuel.

Thanks,
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Old 01-13-2011, 09:11 AM   #35
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RE: Fuel Polishing

Walbro 12 volt WA 6092 - 7 PSI - rated 55 gph.*

They make a 24 volt - WA 6093*


*
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Old 01-13-2011, 09:27 AM   #36
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RE: Fuel Polishing

Thanks Phil.* I didn't think there was a bigger one than that.* The main concern I had with using a Walbro rather than a vane pumps I have was that the suction lift on the Walbro is 4', and the output is dependent on free flow on the inlet side, which is how the pump is mostly used - pushing fuel someplace.* The Racor, or the Gulf, depends on having the fuel sucked through it, so add that head pressure to the height above the tank and you might not have the flow you'd like to have.* Also, the Racor's design involves spinning the fuel centrifically, which requires a reasonalbe flow.* Anyway, that was my thinking on why the Walbro wouldn't work for me.
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Old 01-13-2011, 10:26 AM   #37
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Fuel Polishing

I been using the Walbro for 13+ years and by timing and watching the fuel level it seems like it pump about 50 gph through the Racors, but*the tanks, Racors and Walbro are*close to each other.* Our tanks are 4 ft high and the pump seems to work fine.* I bought a new back up as I heard they were not going to making the pump modle any more?


**

-- Edited by Phil Fill on Thursday 13th of January 2011 11:29:19 AM
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Old 01-13-2011, 10:35 AM   #38
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RE: Fuel Polishing

Yes, the Walbro pump I had on another boat never missed a beat in 20 years.* The Racor would work better (but maybe not better enough to matter) with more flow.* For that look at the links to the ProCon pump I suggested for the Coot.* I use a 180 gph model with a 1/3 hp motor through a Racor 1000 and it seems to work fine, with clear turbo action generated.
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Old 01-13-2011, 01:17 PM   #39
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RE: Fuel Polishing

If the fuel lines are big enough. *My tanks and lines are 1/2" which is about 50 gph.* The 1000*Racor vacuum gauge*the needles barely moves so not much is lost with the filters.**
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Old 01-14-2011, 05:25 AM   #40
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RE: Fuel Polishing

The Racor, or the Gulf, depends on having the fuel sucked through it,

The reason fuel is sucked , rather than pushed, thru a fuel filter is to keep the pump from emulsifying any water , which is harder to successfully separate.
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