fuel Manifold

[albertldee]

hi don't know if there is any experience fuel manifold specialist could help me design a fuel manifold material is not a problem just want to design something simple

this is what I have

2 tank AFT & FWD each tank have 1 feed only
2 pump AC and DC

what I would like to do is to have the AC pump suck and transfer to either tank
Likewise the DC pump to suck and transfer to either Tank

if I get a drawing I can follow the instruction

thanks in advice busting my brains here trying to figure it out and make it simple

 

[Capt.Bill11]

Sounds like you need two log manifolds. One to select which tanks the pumps are drawing from and one to determine where the fuel is going to go.

Each manifold would either have a 3 way or separate valves for each pump to select which pump you want to use to move the fuel around. Along with valves to each tank.

Your tanks have no fuel return lines to them?

 

[Xsbank]

What is the point of an AC pump?

 

[Capt.Bill11]

What is the point of an AC pump?

Redundancy. And in many cases AC pumps have a higher flow rate than DC pumps. Are my guesses.

 

[albertldee]

Sounds like you need two log manifolds. One to select which tanks the pumps are drawing from and one to determine where the fuel is going to go.

Each manifold would either have a 3 way or separate valves for each pump to select which pump you want to use to move the fuel around. Along with valves to each tank.

Your tanks have no fuel return lines to them?

exactly if you could throw me a sketch
no they have no return just one line to each tank that make it more difficult

 

[albertldee]

Redundancy. And in many cases AC pumps have a higher flow rate than DC pumps. Are my guesses.

yes you correct

 

[Xsbank]

Ok, so why do you need a high-volume pump on a fuel manifold?

Not trying to be difficult but I see this system as not being built yet, but it's already on the wrong track.

 

[HopCar]

The Reverso pump companie makes some really nice fuel manifolds. I'm going to use one on my boat. If you buy one, get it from a dealer. It'll be less expensive than from the Reverso website.
Valve Assembly Series Metal

 

[albertldee]

ok hop car will check it out just curious how to pipe it

 

[Capt.Bill11]

Ok, so why do you need a high-volume pump on a fuel manifold?

Not trying to be difficult but I see this system as not being built yet, but it's already on the wrong track.

What are the negatives to having a high or higher volume pump? Not that we know even if the pump in question is particularly high volume.

 

[FF]

Reverso has a number of system ideas on there web site.

Just copy what you think you require with your pieces..

And remember its best to SUCK thru a fuel filter than pump thru it.

 

[Drake]

Go on Yachtworld and look at listings for Defever 44, 49 and 50. They all have very good fuel manifolds. I'd post a pic of mine but for some reason I can't post from my iPad.

 

[Britannia]

A proper fuel manifold is something that's patently missing on Stillwater. Building one is on my to do list. Finding somewhere suitable to mount it is also on my list!

Richard

 

[Capt.Bill11]

Are your pumps reversible?

 

[angus99]

Go on Yachtworld and look at listings for Defever 44, 49 and 50. They all have very good fuel manifolds. I'd post a pic of mine but for some reason I can't post from my iPad.

Not mine, but a typical Defever manifold setup.

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[Xsbank]

The fuel should flow by gravity and the only pumps needed are the on-engine pumps or perhaps a small rattle-pump for priming fuel filters etc. What purpose does an AC pump provide in a fuel system? My previous boat and my present one had their fuel delivered by gravity, I could select from either tank both for feed and return (but never did as the fuel sought it's own level) and I had a rattle pump to fill the filters and bleed the engine system, only used for filter changing but I got a second Racor so didn't use it much, if at all). One small DC pump, no AC pump.

I'm still curious why an AC pump is considered a necessity? What will you do with it?

I am of the opinion that on-board polishing systems are a huge waste of time and money (you need a giant pump that is capable of moving enough fuel to stir up the crud in the bottom of the tank so it can be filtered and if you DO have crud, you need to solve the problem instead of playing with pumps and filters) as a simple sump drain is a better way to go.

We cross-posted, that Defever picture is scary. I would add two more Racors so you could switch filters without shutting down any engines and I'll bet none of those valves are used except to isolate the filters for changing elements. I would also remove the genset from those manifolds (if one is actually plumbed into it) to ensure no single point of failure.

 

[albertldee]

Go on Yachtworld and look at listings for Defever 44, 49 and 50. They all have very good fuel manifolds. I'd post a pic of mine but for some reason I can't post from my iPad.

if and when u can can you post so I can get some idea

 

[albertldee]

Are your pumps reversible?

yes its reversible was thinking about if there was a 2 way switch n if possible to wire it never seen it done before

 

[N4712]

Here's ours, it's all welded stainless.

That timer to the left is for the polisher/transfer pump.

 

[albertldee]

The fuel should flow by gravity and the only pumps needed are the on-engine pumps or perhaps a small rattle-pump for priming fuel filters etc. What purpose does an AC pump provide in a fuel system? My previous boat and my present one had their fuel delivered by gravity, I could select from either tank both for feed and return (but never did as the fuel sought it's own level) and I had a rattle pump to fill the filters and bleed the engine system, only used for filter changing but I got a second Racor so didn't use it much, if at all). One small DC pump, no AC pump.

I'm still curious why an AC pump is considered a necessity? What will you do with it?

I am of the opinion that on-board polishing systems are a huge waste of time and money (you need a giant pump that is capable of moving enough fuel to stir up the crud in the bottom of the tank so it can be filtered and if you DO have crud, you need to solve the problem instead of playing with pumps and filters) as a simple sump drain is a better way to go.

We cross-posted, that Defever picture is scary. I would add two more Racors so you could switch filters without shutting down any engines and I'll bet none of those valves are used except to isolate the filters for changing elements. I would also remove the genset from those manifolds (if one is actually plumbed into it) to ensure no single point of failure.

I understand what you are saying and you are right however not sure if my post was mi-read ac and dc pump not for engine its for transferring from one tank to the other, leveling/balancing both tank

 

[Xsbank]

Thank you for your response - have you actually needed to use the pumps to level the fuel? I guess what I'm banging on about is the assertion that simplicity should be your guide: no single-point-of-failure, no "polishing" nonsense and redundancy in filters. I like lots of valves because diesel is even worse to deal with than antifreeze so the ability to isolate any component that might need maintenance is essential. Also, install your filters somewhere that it's easy to collect spilled fuel and is also accessible for filter changing under the worst conditions (filter change on a lee shore, perhaps?) and preferrably well away from moving machinery. Install sump drains if possible!

Best of luck with your project, when I did the fuel system on my GB (hoses replaced, filters duplicated, on-engine filters replaced with single Racors, sight gauges installed, rattle pump for bleeding, entirely new system and filter for the genset) I got immense pleasure out of the finished results.

 

[Capt.Bill11]

It looks like you are in Ft. Lauderdale, if so there are plenty of people there that could walk you through this. Plus you can get all the parts you need. It might be easier than trying to do this long distance on a web forum.

 

[what_barnacles]

Here's whats on my ocean alexander. The logs are stainless steel or maybe aluminum (I cant tell with all the gunk LOL)
Left side is fuel feed from 2 tanks to the engin, and generator (bottom ports)..
Right log is fuel return.

As you can see this setup doesnt have a port on the fuel feed or return logs for transfer/polisher. But getting a log built with the number of ports you need is simple enough. Any marine welder can make one for you.

 

[angus99]

. . . that Defever picture is scary . . . I'll bet none of those valves are used except to isolate the filters for changing elements. I would also remove the genset from those manifolds (if one is actually plumbed into it) to ensure no single point of failure.

Again, the photo isn't my manifold, but similar. I use the valves constantly. With three tanks, two mains and a genset, supply and return lines, it's a very convenient setup and very common in Defevers. Fuel transfers between tanks are easy. Not too scary once you get used to it.

 

[Xsbank]

Hey Barnacles, that fuel manifold looks like the toilet plumbing in a Beijing hotel!

You can buy new valves at Home Depot, some of which won't rust...

 

[what_barnacles]

They may have come from there LOL

The boat was used for 10 years as the PO cruised the Caribbean and then he left it sitting at the dock for 8 years without a single cruise. Everything in it is that kind of shape (you should see the fuel tanks).

I keep chanting "its worth 5 times what I paid, its worth 5 times what I paid" unfortunately it may take 6 times to get it in that shape.

 

[Capt.Bill11]

For ready made manifolds these are hard to beat.

HOME-FLEX 1/2 in. x 1/2 in. x 1/2 in. Stainless Steel CSST FIPT Manifold, 11-050504 at The Home Depot - Mobile

 

[Heron]

You can do this pretty simply, or make it complex. I went simple using existing valving. Fuel can be filtered/polished or moved tank to tank with a few valve turns and turning on the pump.

I added the pump, a 3 way select (Engine, or recirculating transfer option), and a "T" into the return to accomplish this...

 

[what_barnacles]

Heron,

Do you have a fuel circuit for the generator?

 

[FF]

Does the engine not require a tank selection for the fuel return?

Some engines return is very minor , a quart an hour with a really old injection pump.

Some like DD will return 20GPH ,in a normal operation.

Might want to check your engine style..