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Old 09-27-2015, 12:36 PM   #21
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Thank you for your response - have you actually needed to use the pumps to level the fuel? I guess what I'm banging on about is the assertion that simplicity should be your guide: no single-point-of-failure, no "polishing" nonsense and redundancy in filters. I like lots of valves because diesel is even worse to deal with than antifreeze so the ability to isolate any component that might need maintenance is essential. Also, install your filters somewhere that it's easy to collect spilled fuel and is also accessible for filter changing under the worst conditions (filter change on a lee shore, perhaps?) and preferrably well away from moving machinery. Install sump drains if possible!

Best of luck with your project, when I did the fuel system on my GB (hoses replaced, filters duplicated, on-engine filters replaced with single Racors, sight gauges installed, rattle pump for bleeding, entirely new system and filter for the genset) I got immense pleasure out of the finished results.
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Old 09-27-2015, 01:48 PM   #22
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It looks like you are in Ft. Lauderdale, if so there are plenty of people there that could walk you through this. Plus you can get all the parts you need. It might be easier than trying to do this long distance on a web forum.
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Old 09-27-2015, 02:20 PM   #23
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Here's whats on my ocean alexander. The logs are stainless steel or maybe aluminum (I cant tell with all the gunk LOL)
Left side is fuel feed from 2 tanks to the engin, and generator (bottom ports)..
Right log is fuel return.

As you can see this setup doesnt have a port on the fuel feed or return logs for transfer/polisher. But getting a log built with the number of ports you need is simple enough. Any marine welder can make one for you.

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Old 09-27-2015, 02:33 PM   #24
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. . . that Defever picture is scary . . . I'll bet none of those valves are used except to isolate the filters for changing elements. I would also remove the genset from those manifolds (if one is actually plumbed into it) to ensure no single point of failure.
Again, the photo isn't my manifold, but similar. I use the valves constantly. With three tanks, two mains and a genset, supply and return lines, it's a very convenient setup and very common in Defevers. Fuel transfers between tanks are easy. Not too scary once you get used to it.
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Old 09-27-2015, 02:37 PM   #25
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Hey Barnacles, that fuel manifold looks like the toilet plumbing in a Beijing hotel!

You can buy new valves at Home Depot, some of which won't rust...
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Old 09-27-2015, 02:40 PM   #26
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They may have come from there LOL

The boat was used for 10 years as the PO cruised the Caribbean and then he left it sitting at the dock for 8 years without a single cruise. Everything in it is that kind of shape (you should see the fuel tanks).

I keep chanting "its worth 5 times what I paid, its worth 5 times what I paid" unfortunately it may take 6 times to get it in that shape.
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Old 09-27-2015, 05:18 PM   #27
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For ready made manifolds these are hard to beat.

HOME-FLEX 1/2 in. x 1/2 in. x 1/2 in. Stainless Steel CSST FIPT Manifold, 11-050504 at The Home Depot - Mobile
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Old 09-27-2015, 05:53 PM   #28
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You can do this pretty simply, or make it complex. I went simple using existing valving. Fuel can be filtered/polished or moved tank to tank with a few valve turns and turning on the pump.

I added the pump, a 3 way select (Engine, or recirculating transfer option), and a "T" into the return to accomplish this...

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Old 09-27-2015, 07:33 PM   #29
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Heron,

Do you have a fuel circuit for the generator?
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Old 09-28-2015, 06:46 AM   #30
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Does the engine not require a tank selection for the fuel return?

Some engines return is very minor , a quart an hour with a really old injection pump.

Some like DD will return 20GPH ,in a normal operation.

Might want to check your engine style..
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Old 09-28-2015, 09:22 AM   #31
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Go on Yachtworld and look at listings for Defever 44, 49 and 50. They all have very good fuel manifolds. I'd post a pic of mine but for some reason I can't post from my iPad.
Yup, great manifolds - another thing Art did right. I have a Groco fuel transfer pump on the manifold which permits movement of fuel between 4 tanks. Albeit at a low rate of 3 gpm.
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Old 09-28-2015, 12:11 PM   #32
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The fuel returned to the tank is for cooling the injection pump. All that compressing of fuel to inject it creates lots of heat. To stop the fuel boiling and cavitating lots of fuel is run through the system and returned to the tank. The return circuit is almost more important than the supply circuit, unless your tanks are not fore and aft but side to side, then "usually" a large connecting pipe between the two tanks allows for the fuel to migrate to its own level.
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Old 09-28-2015, 12:54 PM   #33
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The fuel returned to the tank is for cooling the injection pump. All that compressing of fuel to inject it creates lots of heat. To stop the fuel boiling and cavitating lots of fuel is run through the system and returned to the tank. The return circuit is almost more important than the supply circuit, unless your tanks are not fore and aft but side to side, then "usually" a large connecting pipe between the two tanks allows for the fuel to migrate to its own level.
Depends on the engine. Some like Lehmans return very little fuel.

Engines that return a lot of fuel usually have inline fuel coolers because with out them the returned fuel can heat the whole tank of fuel up and the fuel in the tank just gets hotter and hotter. Especially as the level goes down in the tank and the volume of fuel is reduced.
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Old 09-28-2015, 03:06 PM   #34
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All diesel-burning engines, even jet engines, return fuel to the tank. Lots of fuel-injected cars do too, I'm not sure if for the same reason.
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Old 09-28-2015, 05:00 PM   #35
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All diesel-burning engines, even jet engines, return fuel to the tank. Lots of fuel-injected cars do too, I'm not sure if for the same reason.
Not all. Some MTUs don't.
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Old 09-28-2015, 05:44 PM   #36
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The return circuit is almost more important than the supply circuit, unless your tanks are not fore and aft but side to side, then "usually" a large connecting pipe between the two tanks allows for the fuel to migrate to its own level.
So oddly enough I could not for the life of me figure out why my boat kept listing further and further to stbd after I bought it. I asked the PO about it, and he said, no it's gotta be the water tanks making it lean.

Sure enough, it turned out that the fuel tanks werent balancing at all. The port was siphoning into the stbd tank. A little siphon action and the boat would list, then the tank notices hey, he's got more than me "because he's higher than me", and a little more siphoning action.

By the time I got around to shutting off the valves it was getting to where I was wondering when it would just roll over.
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Old 09-28-2015, 07:04 PM   #37
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hi don't know if there is any experience fuel manifold specialist could help me design a fuel manifold material is not a problem just want to design something simple

this is what I have

2 tank AFT & FWD each tank have 1 feed only
2 pump AC and DC

what I would like to do is to have the AC pump suck and transfer to either tank
Likewise the DC pump to suck and transfer to either Tank

if I get a drawing I can follow the instruction

thanks in advice busting my brains here trying to figure it out and make it simple
There are some drawings and equipment specs here: Fuel Polishing - delfin.talkspot.com

I had my manifolds made up for about $50 by a local shop. The a/c motors using carbonator pumps run quietly as opposed to DC pumps that are noisy, can be sized for any flow rate, and will run continuously, which is also something DC pumps don't do well.
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Old 09-28-2015, 07:09 PM   #38
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Well done, Bill, I concede. You are right, Some MTUs recycle their fuel back through a cooler and back to the injection pump. I give up.
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Old 09-28-2015, 11:34 PM   #39
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Well done, Bill, I concede. You are right, Some MTUs recycle their fuel back through a cooler and back to the injection pump. I give up.
Sorry I didn't mean it to come off like I was trying to put your knowledge down. Just pointing out you can't generalize that all diesels return a lot of fuel to the tank and that some in fact don't return any at all.

You and I may know that but some here may not.
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Old 09-29-2015, 12:35 AM   #40
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I've kind of stayed out of this because in post five the op says he has no return lines. That seemed unlikely to me. I didn't know MTU engines didn't have a return line.
Before we can help him I think we need to confirm that he has no return lines. We also need to know if he has a single or a twin engine boat or did I miss that?
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